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  1. #1
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    Default Pierce Aerial failure??????

    First off i'm a fan of pierce and not attacking them just informing. I just saw on my local(WHDH ch. 7) news Boston Ladder 15 fully extended off the back of the truck where the last 25ft had bent and the ladder could not me retracted. A crane and flat bed was called to assist. The aerial was cut and the enitre unit has been returned to Pierce. Anyone else have any more details on this?

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    http://www1.whdh.com/news/articles/local/BO43864/

    Boston firefighters forced to send ladder back

    BOSTON -- Boston firefighters have to call in a crane and a flat bed trailer after one of their ladders got stuck.

    There was no actual fire, but the ladder automatically extended, got bent about 25 feet from the top and then wouldn't retract.

    It was sawed off and sent back to the manufacturer.
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    Wow, I feel sorry for the Lt. that had to call his Batt. Chief.

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    Question

    I'm just a little bit baffled by the automatically extended bit. Did anybody there figure out how or why before they sent it back?

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    Do you think that the Pierce Aerial Ladder from Boston, Mass is a med duty 250 # tip load ladder ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by oaattx934 View Post
    Wow, I feel sorry for the Lt. that had to call his Batt. Chief.
    There are no Battalions in the BFD, but that's just a minor detail. Still after looking @ another forum, Boston REALLY HATES Pierce, reasons being too many to list here, will list 1

    ex.

    Fire in North Boston, notorius for NARROW streets, Ladder 1 (early 2000s model AWS on it) sets up their outriggers. The outriggers clear not only the street, but the Sidewalk as well. The outriggers go all the way to the building fronts on BOTH sides.

    Mike

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    ...........
    Last edited by Chauffer6; 02-21-2007 at 08:44 PM. Reason: not even worth getting involved in the abortion this thread is gonna turn into!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chauffer6 View Post
    Do I "think"? No, I know it's a 105' Heavy Duty on a Dash chassis with a 500 lb tipload.

    How about we let this whole story play out before we start speculating? Yeah right, like THAT'LL happen.
    What type of rear mount aerials is the FDNY useing for the past 18 years ,Seagrave 250 # tip load ?The " CHICAGO " Fire Department has Pierce Med Duty 4 section 100' aerial ladders in service with ( 250 # ) tip loads !
    Last edited by NewJerseyFFII; 02-21-2007 at 08:56 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NewJerseyFFII View Post
    Do you think that the Pierce Aerial Ladder from Boston, Mass is a med duty 250 # tip load ladder ?
    I'm pretty confident that the Boston 100 footers from Pierce are the medium duty aerials... However, it really doesn't matter what rating they are.

    I won't even begin to speculate as to what happened with the aerial in question.
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    It probably had something to do with the sticker in the middle window. It could have ruined the integrity of the whole truck.
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    I believe it is the medium duty aerial and I also believe that you can tell the difference by the number of outriggers. 4 outriggers for the heavy duty, 2 outriggers for the medium duty. The picture of the Boston Truck 15 doesn't seem to show any front outriggers - only rear - thus I would say it's a medium duty.

    I believe that Chicago uses a combination of medium and heavy duty aerials from Pierce. CFD seems to distinguish between the two by referring to the medium duty aerials as a "Truck Co." and the heavy duty arials as a "Aerial Tower Co."

    Again, I'm simply basing my comments on the number of outriggers and on some brief research on the Pierce website.

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    If this works, here is a photo from the Boston Herald
    Attached Images Attached Images  

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    Is that aluminum? My guess looking at that pic is they set the ladder on the building which prevented the ladder trusses from carrying the load but thats kinda a strange hypothesis seeing as how boston has "the best laddermen" lol. No really though this is a sucky situation for everyone involved.

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    One picture isn't much to base an opinion on but from that picture I wouldn't be surprised if it didn't turn out to be operator error rather than equipment failure.

    I'm sure we'll hear more about it as time goes on.
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    Default More info from EMTBravoNewEngland.com

    Found this on another site


    On Tuesday February 20 at approximately 2030hrs, Box 14-221 was transmitted for a reported fire at the South End Tennant Housing, 400 Massachusetts Ave. in the South End. Engines 22, 7 & 33 along with Ladder 15, Tower Ladder 17, Rescue 1, District 4 Chief & Division 1 Deputy Chief were assigned. While Ladder 15 was raising the aerial on their 2004 Pierce 105' Rearmount truck, the last fly section suffered a catastrophic failure & caved in upon itself, bending the stick significantly. A crang from Shaughnessey Crane was eventually dispatched to secure the stick so that it could be lowered to the bed. Two engineers from Pierce Fire Apparatus were dispatched from Appleton Wisconsin yesterday to Boston to investigate. Ladders 1, 7 & 18 were taken out-of-service until a complete and thorough inspection was completed. The Boston Herald had a great story & picture on page 2 of today's paper. http://news.bostonherald.com/localRe...ticleid=184327 More information when it becomes available.

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    Judging by the width of the aerial sections in that picture, plus the "shiny" unpainted appearance, I would have to say that the failure was an E-One, not a Pierce. The medium duty Pierce aerials do not have as wide an aerial as depicted in the picture. So, if it is an E-One, then somebody needs to get their stories straight before starting something.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bgcjmc View Post
    Judging by the width of the aerial sections in that picture, plus the "shiny" unpainted appearance, I would have to say that the failure was an E-One, not a Pierce. The medium duty Pierce aerials do not have as wide an aerial as depicted in the picture. So, if it is an E-One, then somebody needs to get their stories straight before starting something.
    Read this article. http://news.bostonherald.com/localRe...ticleid=184327

    The Union and Pierce are at least acknowledging it happened. I don't think the Boston Herald has it that far off base with these comments.

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    Default Pierce or E-One ?????

    To bgcjmc:

    What on earth was your point? This is clearly Ladder 15, which according to the photo earlier in this thread is in fact a Pierce. Add to that the fact that you can see rubber rung covers in the bent aerial photo, along with the white boxes at the tip, both of which are on the Pierce's and not on the E-Ones.

    I have to believe BFD knows what brand Ladder 15 is. So why would you post such an uninformed comment ? Why drag E-One into it when it clearly isn't even remotely involved ?

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    Default Pierce Ladder Failure

    Keep Drinking The Kool Aid.

    Cary NC. Aerial Platform Failure
    Natick Ma. Rear Steer Ladder Steering System Failure
    Cary Platform Failure Again After it was Sold to Weston/Wausau Wisconson
    Boston Ladder Failure.

    I wonder what CSI investigators would conclude? A TREND?

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    I'm probably the last one who should be chiming in on this subject since I'm not a ladder person at all. But the instant I saw the picture, a memory flashback occurred.

    In the mid sixties, I was in a class at the the Fire Service Extension (now MFRI) of the University of Maryland. The speaker was Hubert Walker who was American LaFrance's ladder engineer. He was describing what kinds of things happens to ladders as a result of what gets done to them. That looks just like what he said (and showed) could happen from letting a ladder tip be supported by the building it's raised to.

    My recollection is that maybe it wouldn't happen right then and there, or maybe it would. But if the tension members of the truss were compromised from being supported at an earlier time, an incident could occur at a later time.

    Anyone with good ladder physics knowledge have anything to contribute?

    Stay safe out there, everyone goes home!

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    Important Note: No one got hurt. Good thing.


    Ok, back to the babble.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

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    I'm still trying to get my head around a scenario that would cause a fly section to "cave in upon itself" up in defiance of gravity.

    (As for bgcjmc 's comment, I have to admit I did a double-take at the picture of the bent stick. The ladder does look a bit shiny for a white painted Pierce but that appears to be the result of a bad picture rather than a different truck once you look at it carefully.)
    Last edited by DeputyMarshal; 02-22-2007 at 03:36 PM. Reason: attribution erro
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    Default I was wondering too!

    In the picture of Ladder 15 you can see a yellow pike pole and no roof ladder. In the picture with the damaged ladder you see a roof ladder and no pike poles (and yes the ladder uprights look non painted but as mentioned earlier, maybe its the lighting).

    Thankfully, no one got hurt.

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    Talking Lol!!!

    Hey wait just a darn minute......this Kool Aid tastes funny!!!!!

    I can't wait to hear the excuse Pierce gives for this one. I'm sure it wasn't their fault. Maybe it was the Union.....(sarcasm boys!!) Let try another approach....maybe in being the biggest builder of them all, we allow quality to slip a little to gain quantity??? They are no longer the Pierce of the late '80's or early '90's.

    Also...It has been stated without question that this is a "Pierce" "steel" aerial, so leave everyone else alone.
    Last edited by efd281; 02-22-2007 at 05:09 PM. Reason: bad grammer
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    The important thing is what was done to the ladder to make it do that. Did they lay it into the building? Did they stress it some time earlier and it just now failed? Since it failed with no one on it, my guess whould be that something happened to it earlier in its life.
    Boston is a busy place and they use their equipment, no excuse it shouldn't fail, yet with ladders being built better then they ever have in the history of the fire service it raises many questions.
    A bigger problem is if something happened to it and the crew just put it away and didn't report it.

    Time may tell

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