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  1. #1
    MembersZone Subscriber LVFD301's Avatar
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    Default Average age of your vehicles

    In the fill in the blank part of the grant application - NOT the narrative - how do you handle a truck you have on order, but not recieved yet?

    I plan on putting it into the narrative - but not sure how it is handled in the
    other part.


  2. #2
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    Per the PG:

    Applicants must include in their vehicle inventory any vehicle that is on order if the department or its sponsoring municipality has signed a contract or otherwise committed to purchase said vehicle.
    I would supply the same info on the truck on order as you do for the rest of the fleet. Year (based on chassis the manufacturerer can supply this), pump size, tank size etc. with (On Order) at the end.

    Ex. 2008 KME Aerial 100', 0 yrs, 1500 gpm, 400 gallons (On Order)

  3. #3
    MembersZone Subscriber LVFD301's Avatar
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    The things we would learn if we would just read!

    Thanks.

    As a side question, when figuring average age, are ALL department vehicles counted, or only suppression, or only engines and tankers?


    Or just tankers, seperate from engines?

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    There's a category for just about everything--including "Other", in the Department Characteristics (II) section. The Request Details gives a place for details on 15 vehicles, reads like all of them. There are also questions regarding the age of the newest and oldest vehicles of the type you are requesting. I believe that the average age is calculated on the entire fleet.

    Good luck!!
    earl

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    The one thing that that every one learns, is there are cases where there are no concrete answers to some questions. Answers and opinions are based on past experience, statistics etc. This I believe is the case with apparatus age. The ROT is 20+ years old if looking at apparatus grant.

    The PG states the following:

    When we assess the number of vehicles a department has within a particular class, we will include all vehicles with similar functions. For example, we will consider the following to be classified in the “pumper” category: pumpers, engines, pumper/tankers, rescue-pumpers, quints (with aerials less than 76 feet in length), and urban interface vehicles such as Type I, II or III.
    I believe they look at the average of the classification you are trying to replace. If it's a pumper they look at the average age of the pumpers, not the entire fleet. I base this on past experience. We recieved a grant for a brush truck. The average age of the entire fleet was 11 years old with the 2 newest apparatus 2 & 3 years old. The brush truck was 16 years old.

    Don't get me wrong, I believe they look at the entire list, but more in the area of priorities. For ex. a department replaces 2 command vehicles then submits a proposal for a new pumper. Red flags will probably fly on why the pumper wasn't replaced vs. the command vehicles.

    With the changes this year allowing departments to submit a vehicle & ops grant, it makes sense to submit a vehicle grant if you believe it's a need. "Nothing ventured, nothing gained".

  6. #6
    MembersZone Subscriber LVFD301's Avatar
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    It makes sense to look at the average age of the class of vehicle,
    IE, if I have brand new engines, and old brush trucks, should the age
    of the brush trucks drop down my engine average age? I would not
    think so.

    I also fail to see where the average age of support or chief vehicles should
    have impact on getting a new tanker.

    My new truck will have 1215 gallons of water (1250 tank with a 35 gallon
    foam cell).

    Even though I consider it a pumper/tanker, I believe DHS will consider it a pumper, which is cool, cause we are going to ask for a tanker.

    Average age of our tankers is 23 years old.

    Average age of our engines, including the one on order, 22, if you include
    the new one, and the one it will finally replace. Dropping the truck
    that will eventually get replaced, still leaves us at 15.5

    Overall fleet age, including support and brush trucks, 27.8.

    And then, we could always add the reserve pumper, dragging it to a
    31.3

    Its hell to be poor!

    And you are complelely correct - you can't win if you don't play!

  7. #7
    MembersZone Subscriber sdff1520's Avatar
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    Brings up an interesting question. If you are to count those trucks that are 'on order' or contracted for, on the way, ready to be delivered etc...then should you ALSO count the truck that the vehicle that is 'on order' is going to replace? I mean if you have a new tanker on order and as soon as you put it in service the old one will be removed from service (as per the 2006 AFG requirement) why should you count both. That only serves to artificially inflate your total apparatus numbers? If you have a small fleet of 3, say 1 engine, 1 tanker and 1 brush but you have a new tanker on order for a repalcement you would be required to report a fleet of 4 since you as per the guidlines now have 2 tankers? Your small fleet has just grown artificially by 1.3 times. Whats the official word on this?

    Rick

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    Well since they are going to let us go after both vehicles and equipment we are going to probably give it a shot. We have the money to either buy an engine or staff an engine.

    Currently we have a 2005 Engine, 1997 100ft Platform and a 2006 re-furb Brush Truck.

    ISO has told us we need a 3rd 1st due and it would get us close to minimum reponse personnel per NFPA guidelines.

    I know ISO doesn't matter but shouldn't NFPA 1710. You can't get people to the scene if they don't have a ride and you also don't want your 100ft Platform operating as an engine on a structure fire, if possible.
    Capt. Lance E. Gillespie
    North Tunica Co. Fire Dept.
    Robinsonville, Ms

  9. #9
    Forum Member SLY4420's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vol901 View Post
    Well since they are going to let us go after both vehicles and equipment we are going to probably give it a shot. We have the money to either buy an engine or staff an engine.

    Currently we have a 2005 Engine, 1997 100ft Platform and a 2006 re-furb Brush Truck.

    ISO has told us we need a 3rd 1st due and it would get us close to minimum reponse personnel per NFPA guidelines.

    I know ISO doesn't matter but shouldn't NFPA 1710. You can't get people to the scene if they don't have a ride and you also don't want your 100ft Platform operating as an engine on a structure fire, if possible.
    Don't put alot of sweat into a vehicle application; with the information you provided you probably won't get past the computer.

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    We were just going to have our dealer give us the 2007 price for our 2005 engine.

    More or less just practice for writing a grant for when we replace our platform in the future.

    Also, you never know, they may just wake up and smell the coffee and award all of us that apply and show some need, even if it's just a little.

    Oh wait, my wife just woke me up, I must have just fallen asleep at the computer and started dreaming. Man, what a nice dream.
    Capt. Lance E. Gillespie
    North Tunica Co. Fire Dept.
    Robinsonville, Ms

  11. #11
    Forum Member islandfire03's Avatar
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    And what a sweet dream it was !!!!
    Can i have some of what you were taking :-]

  12. #12
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    Blake, the reason the age of the command vehicles and smaller fleet count is that it shows what you're doing with your money first. If a tanker is such a need, why buy a chief's car for $40-50k equipped instead of saving that for the tanker? That's how that gets looked at.

    Rick, yes, count both currently in service and on order, even if one is planned on replacing the other. Because you can't guarantee until the day you take the old one out of service that it will really be done. Something happens, it stays and you didn't report it, there will be problems.

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    Default What about a rescue pumper???

    I am sure I will ask this question tomorrow in the seminar (see you all there) but myself and another firefighter from my dept are working on the AFG grant and wanted to put in for a medium rescue (ours is an old ambulance) but it is priority 2 what is our chances when we have a 87 commerical cab, and a 2000 6 man cab. We will be replacing our 87. Thanks guys.

    Stay Safe,
    Tom F.

  14. #14
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    Rescue pumper is a pumper, no such thing as a hybrid. Pumpers are priority #1, rescues are P2. No chance at a P2.

    You're at a 13 year old fleet average. Not great considering the number of people wanting to replace units older than yours with nothing built newer than 1990, but not impossible. If it's what you need, fire away.

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