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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by PFVFRWFD1 View Post
    im a member of two departments.
    One department i joined when i was 14 as an explorer....i have been the president there for 4 years so i didn't leave. That department doesnt allow explorers to do ems either. so i joined an all volunteer department about 30 minutes north of the first one. i live 1/2 way between both.
    So if you don't want to leave, why not just move over to the "Adult" side of the department instead of staying an explorer till you're 21 and have to move?
    I mean, in the grander scheme of things, being Past President of an Explorer Post doesn't really mean a whole hell of a lot.

    Would you rather repeat your senior year of HS two more times, or move on to college? Cause what you're doing is just that--you're staying in "HS" when you should be in the big leagues with the "college kids", if you catch my analogy.

    Then again, if your writing is any indication, perhaps "HS senior" is giving a bit too much credit--you need to remediate, starting at about 6th grade.

    PS--you're right, absolutely no one from the Fire Service read the other thread in the EMS forums...you know, all those people with "Fire" in their screen-name? Nope, no affiliation with the Fire Service whatsoever...
    Last edited by the1141man; 03-26-2007 at 08:52 AM.
    My opinions might coincide with someone of importance's POV... I wouldn't know, since I never bothered to ask. My policy is: "Don't ask, don't care."

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  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by PFVFRWFD1 View Post
    Im not a kid...im 19 years old.
    I got a question for you, in another post on the exact same day you posted this one, it says you are 16 and will be 17 in november, so which is it?

  3. #23
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    Does anyone else smell a Yates?
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    I have to disagree with you about not being paged and I'll give you two examples.

    #1, It was a Saturday morning, normal training day, and we're sitting there before going home. Two car MVA happens one block down and we see/hear it. Did we get toned? Nope, because we took the radio and told dispatch we saw it and are responding.

    #2, One of our officers saw a pedestrian/car accident. He went to the station with lights and siren. Two were there just relaxing. Informed dispatch and went right back.


    Now I've been in a POV in another department's area and came upon a medium severity two car MVA. I did stop and asked PD if they needed help. They said nope, their FD was on the way, but said thank you.

    Duty to act to me is simple. If you have the knowledge and you can save someones life you stop.


    Quote Originally Posted by FireDawgEMT22 View Post
    Actually no matter where you are... as a volunteer until the pager goes off you do not technically have a duty to act..you MUST be dispatched to a scene to have the duty to act...and even as a volunteer if you drive by in your POV they can try, but will have a tough time holding anything against you...you are not required to respond to anything as a volunteer, but once you get on that ambulance/fire truck you have a duty to act...also...if you get dispatched and you stop on scene..you also have the same duty to act...

    So summary...In POV and have been dispatched...not required to act until you commit yourself to the scene...get out of your vehicle and offer assistance

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    At least Yates could drive the "Support Truck".

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by BrianB35 View Post
    I have to disagree with you about not being paged and I'll give you two examples.

    #1, It was a Saturday morning, normal training day, and we're sitting there before going home. Two car MVA happens one block down and we see/hear it. Did we get toned? Nope, because we took the radio and told dispatch we saw it and are responding.

    #2, One of our officers saw a pedestrian/car accident. He went to the station with lights and siren. Two were there just relaxing. Informed dispatch and went right back.
    In both of those situations--if you're a volunteer and at the station for whatever reason (meeting, training, etc), a very convincing legal argument could be made that you are "on-duty" at that point in time, and therefore have the full legal duty to act as required by your state laws.
    My opinions might coincide with someone of importance's POV... I wouldn't know, since I never bothered to ask. My policy is: "Don't ask, don't care."

    IACOJ--West Coast PITA

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by the1141man View Post
    In both of those situations--if you're a volunteer and at the station for whatever reason (meeting, training, etc), a very convincing legal argument could be made that you are "on-duty" at that point in time, and therefore have the full legal duty to act as required by your state laws.
    But on the same token here in Ohio, we had a similar incident and responded and did not tone out. One of the guys twisted an ankle and sought treatment after the incident. Because the call was not toned out, the Bureau of Workers Compensation denied the claim. Therefore, we always tone out.

  8. #28
    MembersZone Subscriber dday05's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HEYVERN View Post
    But on the same token here in Ohio, we had a similar incident and responded and did not tone out. One of the guys twisted an ankle and sought treatment after the incident. Because the call was not toned out, the Bureau of Workers Compensation denied the claim. Therefore, we always tone out.
    I like to call this FREE LANCING.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by HEYVERN View Post
    But on the same token here in Ohio, we had a similar incident and responded and did not tone out. One of the guys twisted an ankle and sought treatment after the incident. Because the call was not toned out, the Bureau of Workers Compensation denied the claim. Therefore, we always tone out.
    Bull. If you call in a call to dispatch (in your response area), and dispatch knows about it and tracks your times just as you would for any call, then they shouldn't need to tone you out. I would have appealed the decision, on the grounds that due to the fact that the caller reporting the incident was the responding unit, it would have been redundant to tone them out.

    and it's only freelancing if it's a) not in your area or b) you do it and no one (incident commander or dispatch) knows that you are doing it.
    If my basic HazMat training has taught me nothing else, it's that if you see a glowing green monkey running away from something, follow that monkey!

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  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrParasite View Post
    Bull. If you call in a call to dispatch (in your response area), and dispatch knows about it and tracks your times just as you would for any call, then they shouldn't need to tone you out. I would have appealed the decision, on the grounds that due to the fact that the caller reporting the incident was the responding unit, it would have been redundant to tone them out.

    and it's only freelancing if it's a) not in your area or b) you do it and no one (incident commander or dispatch) knows that you are doing it.
    Under what rock did you crawl out of? Here in the real world that is the way it is done. You report an incident, the dispatcher tones out the response!!! End of story. Unless you work for the BWC, this discussion is over plane and simple.

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by HEYVERN View Post
    Under what rock did you crawl out of? Here in the real world that is the way it is done. You report an incident, the dispatcher tones out the response!!! End of story. Unless you work for the BWC, this discussion is over plane and simple.
    Out here it's common to get reports of incidents by walk-in or call-in direct to the station. The station personnel advise dispatch by radio and go responding...now, try'n use some logic here, but why tone a station for a call they called in, especially if they advised they're responding???

    Thanks for again proving that common sense truly isn't common.
    My opinions might coincide with someone of importance's POV... I wouldn't know, since I never bothered to ask. My policy is: "Don't ask, don't care."

    IACOJ--West Coast PITA

  12. #32
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    Why would you tone in a station that called in the call? If you have say four guys at the station and they respond to the call, why not tone out the dept. to have the rest of the troops coming to help out. We are a Volunteer dept. in northeast ohio. Rural area and cover 100 square miles with two stations. We have no paid staffing. Only a crew at the station every other weekend to check out trucks or during training. So I ask, Why would you not tone out the extra help? You can always turn them around if you don't need them, if you do its nice to know they are right behind you.

  13. #33
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    We've had it happen here someone happens to be at the station gets a call, someone walk in what have you or the chief or someone else be driving and see a need to stop (latest example was a MVA two cars off the road way that the chief rolled up on) he called dispatch by radio to see if they had been advised of it and started to check on everyone and had someone complaining of injuries.
    And before the tones even went out we had our squad AND an engine go out how did we do this you ask we listened to our pagers. Everyone should have one and if you hear a piece of your apparatus or someone from the station be acknowledged over dispatch my first thought is go to the station or see if they give an address thats just me though.

  14. #34
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    Default Splitting hairs..

    I am afraid we are trying to split too many hairs here. If one of our volunteers reports an incident and tells dispatch they are on scene on duty, then our 911 dispatch will have a written time record that the unit was on scene. The dispatcher will usually ask if more aid is needed, or if they should drop the tones for the department that covers that district. Either way, the person on scene is recorded as being on duty.

  15. #35
    Forum Member tbonetrexler's Avatar
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    I believe that depends on your state laws. Call the OEMS office or the equivilant and ask.
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  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by HEYVERN View Post
    Why would you tone in a station that called in the call? If you have say four guys at the station and they respond to the call, why not tone out the dept. to have the rest of the troops coming to help out.
    We have a report of a stubbed-toe medical aid...or any medical aid for that matter... why would I need the "rest of the troops" for something I can handle by myself with a friggin Utility or Patrol??????????
    Sure, if it's a reported fire then yes, we need to tone out a full response, but the personnel responding need to use good judgment.
    Don't change the line of your argument--you said before that it was all about legality and "on-duty" status, not about "calling in help".
    My opinions might coincide with someone of importance's POV... I wouldn't know, since I never bothered to ask. My policy is: "Don't ask, don't care."

    IACOJ--West Coast PITA

  17. #37
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    not sure where I heard this, or if it is just hearsay, but i was told yrs. ago, that our insurance would not cover us on a call unless we was toned, training that was a different story, but like I said that may have just been someone blowing smoke up my ***** I don't know

  18. #38
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    Here in Nevada unless you are actually dispatched your not covered. if you come across a rollover then your just a good Samaritan in tell your sta. arrives or the responding station arrives. then your released. I have had neighbors run over and tell me about a fire or a medical call. I have called dispatch on the radio letting them know. but i can not act as an emt or a fire fighter in tell my station arrives on scene. if it is in our response area which is over 300 square miles so i know we will be the responding station. responding to the station after a tone we are not covered we do not and are not allowed to have emergency lights on our povs. once we are in our rigs then we are covered.

  19. #39
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    [QUOTE=the1141man;790943]We have a report of a stubbed-toe medical aid...or any medical aid for that matter... why would I need the "rest of the troops" for something I can handle by myself with a friggin Utility or Patrol??????????
    Sure, if it's a reported fire then yes, we need to tone out a full response, but the personnel responding need to use good judgment.
    Don't change the line of your argument--you said before that it was all about legality and "on-duty" status, not about "calling in help".[/QUOTE

    It is a legal matter. First we were talking about sitting a the station and hearing an MVA and responding and now its a stubbed toe? Yes, you would use good judgement. But still, we have to tone out. Don't ask for a full response, but still tone out. By the way, when we tone out, it's for both stations. We don't tone one station or the other.

  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by HEYVERN View Post
    ... But still, we have to tone out. Don't ask for a full response, but still tone out. By the way, when we tone out, it's for both stations. We don't tone one station or the other.
    (Emphasis MINE...in case there was any confusion )

    And that's the thrust of my argument--you're trying to take what you as a dept do and say that others are wrong (or more specifically: "crawled from under a rock") for not doing it your dept's way.

    So, if you're doing an authorized prevention/education deal at the local elementary school, and you check out "in-service" with dispatch, you're still not covered if something happens because you didn't tone out for it? I find that more than somewhat hard to believe... and if that's the way your agency's insurance operates, well, you need to find a new insurance provider.
    My opinions might coincide with someone of importance's POV... I wouldn't know, since I never bothered to ask. My policy is: "Don't ask, don't care."

    IACOJ--West Coast PITA

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