Thread: Need help with specs
03-01-2007, 03:45 PM #1
- Join Date
- Feb 2003
- Eudora, Kansas,
Need help with specs
I have been asked by my Chief to write out bid specs for a 65 foot telesquirt. I know we dont want to do a total custom truck so I just need help on how to put these specs together. Any help would be appreciated.
Last edited by jdangregg; 03-01-2007 at 03:49 PM. Reason: change info
03-01-2007, 04:01 PM #2
- Join Date
- Feb 1999
Get a hold of 3 or 4 different apparatus reps, have them come out and talk to you, then pick a manufacturer as your number one option. The rep will then write the specs for you. No matter what people say, it's very difficult to write "generic" specs on your own.I have only 2 allegiances, to my country and to my God. The rest of you are fair game.
03-01-2007, 04:02 PM #3
Have you tried your local ALF dealer yet? They are the only ones that can sell you a true "TeleSQURT", as they own the product and do not sell it to other body builders anymore.
Don't let anyone fool you...there is only one TeleSQURT product - many have tried to copy it.....
03-01-2007, 04:19 PM #4
- Join Date
- Apr 2005
- Las Vegas,Nevada
I have to agree with canuck1 on this one. Telesquirt is owned by ALF so if that is the brand you want to spec then ALF is where you will have to go.
03-01-2007, 04:23 PM #5
- Join Date
- Jan 2001
I saw this on a website of a Rosenbauer dealer. It look's like Rosenbauer has developed their own version of the tele-squrt. From what I've heard, it sounds like its a 68 footer.
03-01-2007, 04:45 PM #6
- Join Date
- Oct 2004
There are tons of specs on the internet. I recently wrote specs for 14 different apparatus ranging from Brush Trucks to Platforms. We bid it out as a 10 year contract. We are now in the second year of that contract. Do a Google search using keywords such as Waterous, Hale, or the brand name of other componants on most fire apparatus. You will be surprised how many PDF files come up of firetruck specifications. This was a valuable tool. Most manufacturer's specs will be in the same order and it is not hard to compare and evaluate. It will at least give you a template if you do decide to do it from scratch. As one poster suggested, meet with 4-5 manufacturer's and choose one. The good ones will be happy to assist you with the specs. Either way you do it, make sure you get what you want and don't take the salesperson's word without question. In the word's of Ronald Regan..."Trust but Verify" Good luck in you endeavor.
03-01-2007, 05:34 PM #7
One of the discussions that I've heard with regards to Rosenbauer's version is that much of the parts involved in the construction are "off the shelf" type items (not proprietary to just this design), meaning parts availability should be good, replacements less expensive, etc. I'll try to get this verified, as I've only seen the same rig in the link without it being finished.
Or, you could do the Miami Dade decision and use an aerial with a nozzle that's capable of rotating to the vertical. Yes - I believe there's some limitations to the sweep of the nozzle when operated in this manner, but it is another option to look at. This is also described in the link above to General Fire.
My usual disclaimer - I sell Rosenbauer, take my comments how you wish..."Share your knowledge - it's a way to achieve immortality." - Stolen from Chase Sargent's Buddy to Boss program
03-01-2007, 06:42 PM #8
- Join Date
- Dec 2002
- Central NJ
I just finished working on specs for a new engine that we drafted from scratch basically. In my opinion there is some merit to drafting your own specs versus having some manufacturer drop a copy on your desk, unless you want it to be easy. I learned alot during the process
A few points to ponder.
You are looking for a tele-squirt. I'll assume you mean it in the general sense. You have a few options off the top of my head.
-E-One Teleboom, 50'.
-ALF "Telesqurt" 50, 65 and 75'
-KME Firestix 50 and 75'
Decide what you want the rig to do in regards to performance. As previously stated meet the reps and get the info. Go on the websites and download everything you can find. Find people who use the type of rig you are looking for and can give you feedback about it. Make sure you find people who USE the rig you are looking at, not that have one where it sits collecting dust but for 50 runs a year.
I have taken a cynical position with salesmen of apparatus and euipment. Trust nobody in the beginning. Most of them are looking to do the least work possible and will not tell you that some things can be done because it takes time and effort. They know that if you arent doing your homework that they can make easy money on you. Do your own homework and challenge them. Make them earn their money. We found that there are honest salesmen and some will go out of theur way, but you have to show them that you arent blind in most cases so they won;t take advantage of you. Remember, most salesmen don;t get a dime until the rig is paid for, so some of them won't put their neck too far out.
With a telesquirt some things you want to remember.
-Do you want a true telesquirt type boom with a ladder attached or a squirt boom(articulated type).
-Aerial nozzle sweep angles. What are the maximum sweep angles up and down as well as side to side for each brand you look at.
-Lowest possible elevation off the sides for the boom.
-Type of jacks and jack spread
-Total height and side reach with the boom extended. Remember the numbers will be different.
-total waterway flow and nozzle options. 1000GPM is usually the standard minimum flow.
-Hosebed limitations for the torque box and turntable. Basically, look at how each type of rigs aerial impacts the usability of he rear hosebed.
We run the KME. The rig we have is an earlier model Firestix and is a very poorly designed vehicle. The boom is very inflexible as far as its working angles at lover elevations and the nozzle does not raise above 0 degrees (in line with the boom. Basically limiting our ability to operate it into first floor level fires.
Thats all I have at the moment, more to come if I think of it.
Last edited by MG3610; 03-01-2007 at 06:46 PM.
03-01-2007, 06:50 PM #9
jdangregg- do yourself a favor, spend a few bucks, and pick up a copy of "The Fire Apparatus Purchasing Handbook" By William C. Peters, published by Fire Engineering Books.
The information contained in this book is golden, especially for first-time writers of specifications. I can not think of a scenerio (new custom? new commerical? used? refurb? aerial? rescue?) that is not covered by the author. No one involved in purchasing, writing specs, or otherwise making reccomendations involving apparatus should be without it."Loyalty Above all Else. Except Honor."
03-01-2007, 06:58 PM #10
I'll second the opinion about the book. Very worthwhile reading, in my opinion. If you can make it to FDIC or anything similar, there are always a couple of lectures about writing specs and such as well."Share your knowledge - it's a way to achieve immortality." - Stolen from Chase Sargent's Buddy to Boss program
03-01-2007, 08:34 PM #11
- Join Date
- Jul 1999
- Rural Wisconsin, Retired from the burbs of Milwaukee
In my opinion if you have no clue, not even a basic list of must haves, nice to haves, and want to haves, for your new truck before you meet the salesman you are ill prepared. You don't have to have hard specs written at all really when you meet the first time but if you don't know what you want how can he sell you what you want?
Things like with your telesqurt...length of the boom, gpm flow at the tip, ladder or no ladder, what are your required degrees of movement of the nozzle, like someone else mentioned can it be used with the tip of the ladder below the side of the truck to direct a stream into the first floor?
Pump: what gpm? Realizing that with some pumps that it is the same size from 1250 to 2250 and all that determines what you can do is the engine size and the number of discharges. Single or 2 stage pump?
Tank size. Foam system. compartment sizes. Cab, custom or commercial. How much seating? Preconnects. How much hose do you want to carry? Trays and shelving. Tool mounting. Generator and lighting.
Yes I know I threw a ton of stuff at you..but really who knows better than you and your FD what will serve your needs. The salesman should act as a consultant and help you get what you need not sell you what he thinks you need.
Yes, I am in fact a salesman, I sell HME Ahrens Fox. I am new, but sometimes getting people to tell you what they want is a big part of this job.
03-01-2007, 08:49 PM #12
- Join Date
- Feb 2007
- North Coast Ohio
FDIC Is a great opportunity to compare trucks side by side. we are currently working on Specs for a pumper right now. I have been searching websites and checking out builders. Some of the things that have helped us is downloading the pictures and checking out the little things from each manufacturer that we liked. We are also visiting other departments that have purchased apparatus in the past few years to see how things are holding up.
I would recommend checking out Seagraves website. They have an area with drawings of a lot of apparatus they have built and it amazed me how many different things they do as far as compartment layout and location of items. This has helped us get ideas to give to other reps to see if they can do the options as well. I have printed out about 25 different drawings from there so far on different things we want on our truck. They have a 75' ladder section with some drawings on it to give you ideas.
I know we have been working for about 3 months on this project, well actually close to 3 years but we finally got the go ahead to replace the 30 year old engine we have and it can get very frustrating. I think we are narrowed down to a few builders. One thing we did first was decide on what equipment and hose load we wanted to carry then pump and tank size and now we are measuring everything to see where it will be on the truck so we can have it all laid out to go to the reps and say this is what we want and can u build it. We have already met with a couple of dealers and have checked out some vehicles. It is amazing how some dealers think you know nothing about trucks when you have used them for your whole career and know what works and what doesn't for your department. I find the dealers that are firefighters or were firefighters are better than some guy that is just a salesman. Some try to get u to buy what they offer instead of working to see if they can build what would fit your needs.
do your homework...a lot of departments have great websites with pictures of their trucks and pictures of how they mount equipment to give you ideas. I have downloaded pictures from them as well.
On a side note has anyone seen any trucks with the 07 engines in them yet? The few we have seen so far have been with the 06. I am hoping they have a lot at FDIC this year so we can see how the new emissions requirements are built into them.
03-01-2007, 10:41 PM #13
03-01-2007, 10:46 PM #14"Share your knowledge - it's a way to achieve immortality." - Stolen from Chase Sargent's Buddy to Boss program
03-01-2007, 11:49 PM #15
- Join Date
- Feb 1999
03-02-2007, 09:47 AM #16
Call me I am the local "Telesquirt" dealer. We are the Alf dealer for Kansas, Oklahoma and the western half of Missouri.
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