1. #1
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    Default Firefighters injured by tools in the cab

    Has anyone ever heard of any firefighters being injured by tools in the cab, like an oxygen bottle or a set of irons? If so, is it documented and can you provide a link.

    Thanks,

    David

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    Im sure it's happened, that's why there's a warning label somewhere in the cab of each apparatus that says something to the effect of, "This compartment not designed to prevent objects from becoming projectiles in the event of a collision. Serious injury may result from improper storage."

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    well, no documentation, but i have heard of it. we had a halligan bar when i first started in the cab (i dont know why). it has sinced been removed and placed in one of the compartments. but of course there is going to be stuff in the cab flying around in the event of a rollover or accident. anything not bolted down can become a projectile, including scba's, helmets, flashlights, tools, and even people. you get all of the floping around in the cab and its going to mess someone up. you just have to be carefull with what you have "laying around" in the cab.

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    we have halligans and a set of irons but they are strabbed in securely. We also have overhead compartments that could open up but nothing of real danger in them, some multi gas meters. Flashlights might hurt us, they hang overhead we have the big box ones clipped into the chargers. Other then that cant see anything hitting us.

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    Has anyone ever heard of any firefighters being injured by tools in the cab
    In my 20+ years of being in the department and having tools in the cab for as long as I can remember....I have to say No.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

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    David,

    Check out some of the accident reports at www.firefighterclosecalls.com. I found one report in the apparatus accident section where a firefighter was struck by an SCBA that came loose during a slow speed accident. He was not injured ,fortunately. My question was "Why wasn't the SCBA secured?"

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    No, but we did have a guy (lightly) dinged by an ax he was pulling from its properly-secured location in a compartment. Ironic, eh? Personally, I would rather have heavy, pointy things around my feet in the cab than above my head in a compartment, but whatever.

    As is often the case, there are many ways to do this safely. Just make sure you pick one.

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    Quote Originally Posted by randsc View Post
    Personally, I would rather have heavy, pointy things around my feet in the cab than above my head in a compartment, but whatever.
    Unsecured heavy pointy things at your feet, would quickly travel from near your feet past vital parts of anatomy, past your head, typically in a twisting, unpredictible pattern, while upside down. Futher once the cab begins to flip back to right side up, the path back down to below your feet, may be equally unpredicitble, and may put the same or other organs in the path of such unsecured tools.

    I beleive that may be the point of this thread.
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    Here is an interesting idea; use tool mounting brackets and we won't have to worry about flying tools.

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    Thinking if you are being injured from a tool moving in your cab, chances are you have something more important to worry about.

    As in, why has Newtons laws of motion have been changed
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    If it were up to me in my department I would leave my irons inside the cab at my feet.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ACE402 View Post
    Has anyone ever heard of any firefighters being injured by tools in the cab, like an oxygen bottle or a set of irons? If so, is it documented and can you provide a link.

    Thanks,

    David
    I think that the NFPA 1901, which some people think is bad,very bad, suggests that the heavy pointed and sharpened things be in brackets rated for 9G's if in the cab. I know that Pac Tool Mounts sells them for about 200.00.

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    Default Head Injuries

    St. Louis recently had a Battalion Chief Severly injured in a rollover accident while driving his buggy to a fire. He was struck by another vehicle, causing his to roll,and all the gear in his buggy to fly around. He had serious head injuires. They are suppose to put cages up to keep equipment in the back of the vehicle from flying around.

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    I have heard about items inside of the cab hitting firefighters and braking windows. Nothing major. But it happens. Just never gets reported. How would you like to tell the guys, you got hit upside your head by a TIC, or Mapbook.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mihlrad View Post
    up but nothing of real danger in them, some multi gas meters.

    Not sure what kinda multi gas meters you guys got, but I know that if I got hit hard in the head with one of ours I would most likely be knocked the f out!
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    Yes, some where or another some member has been hurt by loose tools up in the cab. Really no reason to have them there. Mounted in an compartment near the cab doors will be easier to get to than trying to take then out the cab while you are exiting and plus you are in a hurry to get out of the truck.

    Stay safe. Leave the tools in the compartment where they belong. In an accident I would hate to get speared by a pike pole or set of irons for no reason. All it is going to do it make a bad situation worse.
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    You might end up with people not wanting to use the securing straps "to save time".
    Doing Sunday detail,we'd find stuff that we'd tied down after the last call was in the bracket or stand with the strap undone.It almost came down from the wheelhouse that no one was to enter the station without an officer or for a call.
    The only time I know personally of straps and brackets working as designed came when we were crossing a narrow bridge over the Tennessee River and a pickup truck about three vehicles ahead and going our way decided to stop for us as soon as he cleared the superstructure on the downhill side of the bridge.Our driver swerved into the empty oncoming lane to avoid the stopped traffic while we all screamed like little girls.I was braced in the back seat with my legs pushed against the doghouse and praying for our driver's continued good health.
    We'd just checked out and cleaned the engine for a parade later that day and had made sure all the straps for tools and scbas were in place.
    One flashlight and traffic vest had flown from behind the seat but that was all.It was later fixed so those were kept in a mesh bag screwed to the back wall instead of hanging by the D ring.
    Quote Originally Posted by OffBase View Post
    Here is an interesting idea; use tool mounting brackets and we won't have to worry about flying tools.

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    Look through some of the firefighter fatality reports to find some of the documented cases of deaths attributed to loose equipment in the cab. Injures? Who knows - we don't keep track of these well enough. Suffice it to say that it has happened, and it will continue to injure or kill us until we do something about it.

    You will notice that the same people who say "I've never seen it" or "I don't think it is a problem" will also tell you that we don't need to secure SCBAs or wear seatbelts, and that unintentionally deployed hose is not a problem.


    Quote Originally Posted by doughesson View Post
    An unnamed member who shall remain the A/C of a west Kentucky department got a spaghetti award for leaving his helmet on the dash after a call.They were going back to the station and had to make a hard stop which caused his lid to fly forward and break his side of the windshield.
    Nothing more than feelings were hurt but the window cost more than I care to remember to replace.
    Which brings up an interesting point: What are we supposed to do with our helmets while moving? They tell us not to wear them because they will decrease our "survivable space" in the event of a rollover, and cause neck instability and neck injuries in other accidents. But we can't put them down because they could become a projectile. I guess we're in between a helmet and a hard place.

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    Not trying to be an old crusty FF who's BTDT to it all and doesn't need to be told anything new but I'd put mine on the floor and use it as a footrest when returning to the station.
    Kept it out of the way and in a fairly secure fashion.

    Quote Originally Posted by BlitzfireSolo View Post
    Which brings up an interesting point: What are we supposed to do with our helmets while moving? They tell us not to wear them because they will decrease our "survivable space" in the event of a rollover, and cause neck instability and neck injuries in other accidents. But we can't put them down because they could become a projectile. I guess we're in between a helmet and a hard place.

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    So, 20 or so posts after this:
    Quote Originally Posted by ACE402 View Post
    Has anyone ever heard of any firefighters being injured by tools in the cab, like an oxygen bottle or a set of irons? If so, is it documented and can you provide a link.

    Thanks,

    David
    No one has provided one documented example of a firefighter injury or death resulting from loose tools in the cab.

    How do you think someone would be treated on these forums if he posted that his dept. still carried tools inside and unsecured? Kind of reminds me of the bunker gear debate. Very interesting. One poster even referenced NFPA 1901 and stated that a manufacturer ( surprise! )offered a "solution" for this "problem" for around $200.00 (per tool, I imagine). Even more interesting.

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    Quote Originally Posted by clancyxdogg View Post
    So, 20 or so posts after this:


    No one has provided one documented example of a firefighter injury or death resulting from loose tools in the cab.

    How do you think someone would be treated on these forums if he posted that his dept. still carried tools inside and unsecured? Kind of reminds me of the bunker gear debate. Very interesting. One poster even referenced NFPA 1901 and stated that a manufacturer ( surprise! )offered a "solution" for this "problem" for around $200.00 (per tool, I imagine). Even more interesting.
    Careful, there. Question the NFPA and they'll turn on you like rabid dogs.

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