1. #1
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    Default Toledo OH to take over BLS Transports

    Recently the City of Toledo Ohio has decided to take over BLS patient transports, previously done by private ambulance companies. For those of you not familiar, the City of Toledo uses Lucas County EMS Lifesquads, it is a tiered response system, EMD's prioritize calls, sends Lifesquad and Fire Dept, or just Fire Dept depending on presentation of the call. The Fire Dept sends and Engine/Ladder/Rescue (Suburban) as first responders, and they either await arrival of Lifesquad, cancel Lifesquad, call for a Lifesquad or a Private Ambulance...Lifesquad is ALS life threatening Transport, and Private is BLS or non life-threatening...of course Weruj1, if I am missing something or am mistaken please correct me. With the recent decision, 5 stations in Toledo will receive Ambulances for transport. This was done to increase revenue to the city, my understanding is the system will remain the same as it is now, however instead of private ambulance companies the city of Toledo will now transport. The head of MedCorp, one of the largest private ambulance company in Toledo, said that this will cause people of Toledo to die. He said they will now be cared for by ill-trained and uncaring Firefighters. He also said the city is only putting the ambulances where they are sure they will get paid. Obviously, he is just stirring up problems with the residents. I found his quotes quite funny....but back to the point...how does everyone feel about this happening. Has anyone experienced anything like this near them?

    Personally I agree, and think it is better for the patients and the city for care to remain with the same crew for the entirty of the transport.

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    I actually think it is great for us, and the patients to have the two companies, we have two helicopters to chose from, three level 1 trauma centers to chose from, too bad we only have one hyperbaric chamber

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    and by the way...YOU SHALL NOT GET ON TOLEDO BEFORE I DO...I wont allow it...

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    Quote Originally Posted by FireDawgEMT22 View Post
    I actually think it is great for us, and the patients to have the two companies, we have two helicopters to chose from, three level 1 trauma centers to chose from, too bad we only have one hyperbaric chamber
    While it is nice for the pt., I don't see the need for one guy to do exactly what the other guy does just to keep up. Somewhere along the line, someone has to pay for each company to keep expanding its operations.

    There are plenty of cities bigger than Toledo where companies are like, hmmmmm, youve got a burn center, we'll build a shock trauma center, you've got a hyperbaric chamber, we'll build the childrens hospital. I wish that in Toledo, Promedica and Mercy could at least contemplate an approach like this.
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    Good point, they should work together to make the whole community better rather than jam their hospitals full of the same services...never thought of it like that...

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    Quote Originally Posted by FireDawgEMT22 View Post
    Recently the City of Toledo Ohio has decided to take over BLS patient transports, previously done by private ambulance companies. The head of MedCorp, one of the largest private ambulance company in Toledo, said that this will cause people of Toledo to die. He said they will now be cared for by ill-trained and uncaring Firefighters. He also said the city is only putting the ambulances where they are sure they will get paid.
    Well my take on it is that I think it is good. Remember they are only taking over BLS transports.....sprained ankle, flu Sx, broken arm, back pain etc....Basic calls. I didn't see anything about doing ALS...sounds like the private keeps that. I just like the quote of ill trained and un-caring FF's causing people to die. Not sure how it is done there, but they may send FF as first responders to babysit a pt anyways...not much more than that as a BLS. Un-caring FF's....anyone here know of any that don't care? Most FF's do the job, because they DO care. I'm also sure the FF's will get their training.

    We run ALS and there are many times we do ALS treatment that really isn't necessary. Like starting an IV, because we know the hospital will want one, doing a 12 lead, even though the Sx are not cardiac. When I was a basic, you kept the pt comfortable and that was about it. You should know enough to call for ALS if needed though. As a medic, it is drilled into your head to look for this or that, do this or that, it won't hurt anything, but may not be necessay. Most times you find yourself CYA...so you don't get the..."you're a medic, you should have seen that and done this or that".

    My take is with TFD taking over BLS calls, it frees up the private to take care of ALS...when seconds do count.

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    If I am not mistaken, ALS calls are handled by Lucas County EMS LifeSquads, that are staffed by TFD FF/Medics. If all the LSs are busy, then I believe LCEMS dispatch, can call the privates for their ALS units.


    Weruj, am I even close?
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    I think your right RFRD...
    The privates only do ALS is the LCEMS Lifesquads are busy. Currently the Private companies only do the BLS transports anyways. And in Toledo ALL Firefighters are Basics at a minimum, I think

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    Is Toledo going to hire more people to run those ambulances or are they simply going to take staff off the existing companies to run them? If they will hire more people to staff them then it will be a good thing. If they are pulling guys off, then it will suck. They will now end up running trucks/engines with less manpower while the other 2 FF's are riding around in an ambulance transporting.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

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    they are keeping the same manning. The stations that get the ambulances currently have non transporting rescue trucks...Suburbans with medical equip. They are pulling the suburbans out of the stations and replacing them with the ambulances. So nothing will change except Toledo FD will transport all patients...BLS and ALS...and Private companies will not transport the BLS anymore.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FireDawgEMT22 View Post
    And in Toledo ALL Firefighters are Basics at a minimum, I think
    That's correct.
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    Quote Originally Posted by FireDawgEMT22 View Post
    I think your right RFRD...
    The privates only do ALS is the LCEMS Lifesquads are busy. Currently the Private companies only do the BLS transports anyways. And in Toledo ALL Firefighters are Basics at a minimum, I think
    Then I truly LOVE the quote of "ill trained and uncaring FF's" What a freaking maroon. Either way, whoever handles ALS response, with the FD doing BLS transports, it frees up an ALS rig for ALS calls.

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    I am kinda laughing at the quote of doing EMS to generate more revenue. Unless you have a really good collection agency you'll spend more than you generate.

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    Since I've never been to the state of Ohio, I don't really have a dog in this fight. However, I do appreciate the tiered EMS response. That is one thing I wish we had in Arkansas. Here in the metro, every bump, scratch and pain gets an ALS unit and most of the time, it's a hot run. BLS units were introduced about a year or so ago and but they are used for non-emergency scheduled transports only (i.e. hospital-to-hospital, home-to-dialysis, etc.). I'd like to see a system where the BLS units would respond to calls when appropriate and assume even more of the ambulance burdon.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lexfd5 View Post
    I am kinda laughing at the quote of doing EMS to generate more revenue. Unless you have a really good collection agency you'll spend more than you generate.
    From the sounds of it, they already staff two-person squad companies that respond to these calls. So, they're paying for these two people already and they aren't generating any revenue by responding on the squads. By placing them on ambulances, even a small collection percentage will create an increase in revenue. "A little" beats out "none" any day of the week.

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    However, the downside is that now, once the ambulance transports, the squad is available for another EMS run, or fire, assuming they respond to fires.

    Now they will be tied up in transport, meaning that, the engine from that station will have to take the EMS call and the bus from another station (which under the current system would not have to respond because that former squad that is now transporting is no longer available) will have to go out of service to transport.

    Basically it will affect thier manpower, especially if they get multiple BLS calls working at the same time as the squads are now transporting and the engines will have to replace the squads as first responders.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    However, the downside is that now, once the ambulance transports, the squad is available for another EMS run, or fire, assuming they respond to fires.

    Now they will be tied up in transport, meaning that, the engine from that station will have to take the EMS call and the bus from another station (which under the current system would not have to respond because that former squad that is now transporting is no longer available) will have to go out of service to transport.

    Basically it will affect thier manpower, especially if they get multiple BLS calls working at the same time as the squads are now transporting and the engines will have to replace the squads as first responders.
    Most if not all of the time (If i am not mistaken) an engine responds as a first responder. Toledo also has 7 ALS engines out of its total of 17 engines. The private EMS system, I can ASSURE YOU will not fold and will still be here to take calls when needed.
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    Thumbs up Well.............

    We've had a Fire Station Ambulance based BLS service since around 1925. My VFD became the second station in P.G.County to operate an Ambulance in 1929, and we still run a BLS Transport unit today. Personally, I think it's the only way to provide quality, timely service to a Community, PLUS, it goes along with the "Monopoly" Service that we've worked to build over the years.
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    Quote Originally Posted by RFRDxplorer View Post
    The private EMS system, I can ASSURE YOU will not fold and will still be here to take calls when needed.
    I'll back Jake on this. They don't just take EMS calls, they have Ambulette services for nursing homes and what not and like others have said, home to Dialysis and hospital to hospital transports, just to name a few.
    Atleast the two bigger private agencies won't fold (MedCorp and LifeStar).
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    [QUOTE=FireDawgEMT22;788251] This was done to increase revenue to the city, my understanding is the system will remain the same as it is now, however instead of private ambulance companies the city of Toledo will now transport./QUOTE]

    They may very well find out the same thing Detroit did when EMS on transport and that is that their collection rate is only about 32% and there have been years where it was as low as 18%.

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    Thumbs down "Firemen with Boy Scout Merit Badges in First Aid"

    The rhetoric being spewed by the owners of two of the private ambulance companies and some of the "reporters" on a local radio station (a quote from one is above) is demeaning to all firefighters in our area not just TFRD.

    I know I won't forget what's been said.
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    Default firemen with boy scout merit badges in first aid

    Quote Originally Posted by Capt790 View Post
    The rhetoric being spewed by the owners of two of the private ambulance companies and some of the "reporters" on a local radio station (a quote from one is above) is demeaning to all firefighters in our area not just TFRD.

    I know I won't forget what's been said.

    Very true...it is hard to take back words. This really makes the private companies look very unprofessional.....I'm not in the business world, but pretty sure this is not a smart business move to make quotes like that.

    Also very true about demeaning to all FF's. I'm hundreds of miles from there and I find the comments demeaning....again I say, what a maroon.

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