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Thread: Cross Lays

  1. #1
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    Default Cross Lays

    My department is in the process of designing a new engine. Any thought on the pros or cons to having crosslays vs. all preconnects comming off the rear. Personally, I really like crosslays but I am not very fond of the removable tray which many manufactures are using today. Our committee is divided on this issue so any coments would be helpfull. Spanky


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    We have been using crosslay's on our dept. for aprox. the last 20 years. They do speed up the process from our point of view. As far as the tray's my recommendation is to get them, we don't have them on our newest unit and it is a pain to load them in the location that they are located.

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    Forum Member Dave1983's Avatar
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    We have crosslays, but I do like the "all off the rear" idea for several reasons. One, it keeps the lines away from the pump panel and two, it makes it so you your engineers are more likely to pull past the fire building which leaves room for the truck co.

    The only thing I dont like is it uses up room in the main hose bed which leaves the option of going with a larger bed with less compartment space and/or a smaller tank or go with less of the other hose types you normally carry in the main bed.

    The thing some FDs around here are doing (and what we will spec on our next engine) is crosslays on the front bumper. Easy to deplay and load and doesnt have a negative impact on the main hose bed. Doesnt fix the problem with stopping in front and blocking the truck, but nothings perfect.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave1983 View Post
    The thing some FDs around here are doing (and what we will spec on our next engine) is crosslays on the front bumper. Easy to deplay and load and doesnt have a negative impact on the main hose bed. Doesnt fix the problem with stopping in front and blocking the truck, but nothings perfect.
    The flip is that the engine can stop short, the ladder can pull past (if the street's wide enough) or come in from the opposite direction and nose up(maybe).

    Stay safe out there, everyone goes home!

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    Quote Originally Posted by chiefengineer11 View Post
    The flip is that the engine can stop short, the ladder can pull past (if the street's wide enough) or come in from the opposite direction and nose up(maybe).

    Stay safe out there, everyone goes home!
    Why not just let the real truck lead then? Ha!

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    Smile

    I'm a purist. Crosslays don't work well in a ladder/engine combination. The engine should pull past the fire and pull lines off the rear. This allows better aerial access to the structure.

    You can add hose to make it reach the fire. It's kinda hard to add on to a ladder to make it reach.

    For the record, I have been both an engine and ladder captain in my career, so I consider myself to be impartial.

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    Generally speaking, I prefer rear dead loads to anything that's preconnected. With a large dead load, you make sure that you pull the length you need and the appliance you need instead of simply pulling what's on the preconnect because it's simply there. It forces guys to stop and think about what they will need instead of getting into the habit of pulling a crosslay.
    I know training our guys to stop and think before pulling a crosslay is important too, but with a deadload you're more likely to make sure you get it right the first time.
    Proponents of preconnects will say that it's 'quicker' but in my experience it's a matter of seconds to break a dead load and make a connection and doesn't make a difference at all.

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    Default Crosslays - Speedlay

    Could you be refering to what most call speedlays rather than crosslays. Most manufactures call the pre-connects over the pump house crosslays. If they are mounted if front of the pumphouse, top or side mounted pump they call them speedlays and have a tray to assist in loading hose.

    On another note, I have been spec'ing some sort of front bumper discharge in 90% of the specs I have done over the past few years. Either a single trash line in a bumper hosewell or even two "crosslays" that extend from side to side accross the front bumper. Also doing quite a few discharges in floating trays set in the runningboards at the pump area.

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    Forum Member FyredUp's Avatar
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    Tom,

    Howdy from the Wisconsin HME Ahrens Fox sales rep.

    I am in complete agreement with you on the front preconnects. I have only specced one rig without abumper preconnect. Before I was selling HME my volly FD bought an HME rescue engine and we were the first to have HME build the crosslay in the bumper set up. The sides of the bumper are cut back and the bumper lay looks just like and over the pump double crosslay. Ours holds 200 feet of 2 inch hose and this set up is SWEET. Easy and faxt to deploy and best of all 2 people can reload 200 feet of hose in under 5 minutes with no climbing on top of the rig.

    FyredUp

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    Here's shots of our front bumper and speedlays on a side mount pump enclosure. The front bumper line is 150' of 1.75" that lifts out with two straps to deploy forward, left or right as needed. The bottom speedlay is 200' of 1.75", middle is 150' of 1.75" and the top is 200' of 2.5", all with TFT automatic nozzles. The bottom and middle speedlays have a slide out tray to load the hose on, the swivels are above on each one to allow left or right deployment. These are nice, as they are reloaded from the ground and are actually faster than doing crosslays up top. And the safety factor is a bonus.....
    Attached Images Attached Images   

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    If this engine is going to carry a large amount of supply hose, you may not be able to sacrifice the rear space so easily.

    If the standard lengths are adequate (i.e. <1500xLDH, + <1500x2.5,) You should be fine with rear pre-connects.

    If you still want the trash/vehicle/grass fire capability, you could also go with a booster in the front/step/top, and not need as many small handline crosslays over the pump.
    Never argue with an Idiot. They drag you down to their level, and then beat you with experience!

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    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    Tom,

    Howdy from the Wisconsin HME Ahrens Fox sales rep.

    I am in complete agreement with you on the front preconnects. I have only specced one rig without abumper preconnect. Before I was selling HME my volly FD bought an HME rescue engine and we were the first to have HME build the crosslay in the bumper set up. The sides of the bumper are cut back and the bumper lay looks just like and over the pump double crosslay. Ours holds 200 feet of 2 inch hose and this set up is SWEET. Easy and faxt to deploy and best of all 2 people can reload 200 feet of hose in under 5 minutes with no climbing on top of the rig.

    FyredUp
    Hey FyredUp can you put a pic on here of your bumper? I just want to see it.

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    MembersZone Subscriber ffmedcbk1's Avatar
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    I haven't heard if you are rural or urban. This makes a big difference in set up

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    We have 2 150' speedlays under the top mount panel using a minute man load. We also have 150' in the front bumper. then in the crosslay area we have 1 highrise pack 100' 150' dead lay flat load. and another 150' minuteman load. Also we have the apt lay in the rear with 500' 3" connected to a y and then 2 100' 1 3/4. All is 1 3/4" hose. This works great. Although we have 4 on the pumpers and the minute man load comes off on one side or the other. so whichever side of the truck the fire is on is which one gets pulled first. Chris
    Chris
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    We have crosslays with the trays on our truck. There is a pic on one of the threads somewhere but I don't remember where I put it. I'll try to figure it out. The trays are very nice, you can load the hose up on the ground and put it in its spot. As far as pulling off the rear thats going to have to be a decission that your fd members make. If it works for you then do it

    My thoughts are if you have everything coming off the rear/back it will make it easy to get equip off the truck (like the side compts) and people wont be tripping over the hoses or what not. I also think it will be a pain for the pump opp. If all the hoses are coming off the rear that could hamper the water supply, If you're pulling all these lines off hooking the ldh up will be a huge pain in the ***. If the hose lines are up there then people must probably get on the tailboard of the truck and then grab the hose which would be a hard task. Also alot of trucks depts put maybe a drop tank,attic ladder,ladders,pike poles, suction hose and so on in the rear of their trucks built around the tank if you go that route and need some of this stuff people are going to have to climb over alot of hoses to get to this equip and that could lead to a possible injury to one or some of your people and that wont be good.Also if you don't put this equip on the rear of the truck where would you put it? I think the idea itself is good but I dont know if I'd do it. After all this is just my opinoin and all I can say is GOOD LUCK.

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    Forum Member bjlffire's Avatar
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    Here is our new front bumper. Holds 200' 1 3/4, easy to load and deploy.

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    Lets try that again.

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    Forum Member FyredUp's Avatar
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    DAMN IT!!! WHY CAN'T I POST PICTURES HERE???

    FyredUp
    Last edited by FyredUp; 04-02-2007 at 11:53 PM.

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    Default Hey FyredUp

    Did you get the email I sent you thru here? If not drop me an email at tomwnh@yahoo.com

    Heading out to a truck meeting. back tonight late.

  20. #20
    Forum Member FyredUp's Avatar
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    Hey Tom,

    I am at work at the FD today and as weird as this sounds I can't check my private e-mail from here. I will look at it in the morning.

    FyredUp

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