1. #1
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    Default Life Safety Rope for Roof Operations

    Finally moving into the 21st Century with firefighter safety. We are looking to purchase the appropriate equipment for use during roof operations for fall protection. What class harness is appropriate for use during roof operations, while secured by Life Safety Rope to an Aerial Platform. Do we need Class III or is there another or better option? We are eager to comply with the standards, but we only wish to purchase it only once.

    I tried to keep the initial post brief. The issue of working from the platform is not an issue for a pitched roof. But the ability of working from the platform on a flat roof of a commercial structure is not practical. We are wanting to have a bit of added security in the event of a firefighter going through the roof. Yes we sound the roof, yes we work on roof ladders (even on flat roofs), but, as evidenced by recent incidents, we as firefighters can still go through the roof, or the entire roof can become unstable due to improper storage of contents by the building occupants.

    Additionally, we are being called upon to perform rescues from tall structures, not nescessarily roofs, where fall protection and securing of victims is required.

    This is not an issue of a department wanting to meet only the "minimum" standards, but wanting to be proactive in its' safety program, so that "everyone goes home".

    Thanks for the replies.
    Last edited by bjgaylord; 03-29-2007 at 08:43 AM. Reason: Information Clarification

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    Sorry, but I don't know anyone using fall protection at incidents.
    I've seen fall protection used for recruit training but at an incident I think it could get in the way.
    http://www.labsafety.com/store/Safet...oredirect=True
    The link is fall protection for general industry/construction working in roofs but I've never heard it applied to roof operations in the fireservice.
    If you have a tower that you could use as a high anchor why not just cut from the basket?

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    From my understanding a ground ladder is considered a walking / working surface. Since it is classified as a walking / working surface there is no requirement for fall protection.

    If you really want to know the "Truth" you can look here: http://www.osha.gov/SLTC/smallbusiness/sec15.html

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    Is your screenname really BJGaylord? Thats got to be a joke! Gemtor Class 2 harness, why wear anything else. You try and wear a class 3 harness and do anything but lower yourself on a rope and see how much fun it is.

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    The Class III harness is out for firefighting, I agree with the Gemtor although it is designed for positioning, not fall arresting. For a tether to your platform we use a retractable from Miller that is like seatbelt material. That is only used to clip into in the bucket or if your leaning over to make a cut. I wouldn't tie the roof crew off to anything as a general practice, I don't think its practical and I can also see where it would introduce new hazards

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    Nice link, well that spells it out.
    A general guideline we use is flat roof to 4/12 walkable nothing needed.
    4/12 to 8 or 9/12 walkable but you need a roof ladder.
    9/12 or greater you need a roof ladder not a walkable roof.

    Also if the roof is not walkable we do not bring power tools up. Get on the ridge and chop away. Preform a zipper cut, that seems to work well. And always look for a ridge vent pulling this off makes fast work for the ventilation crew.

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    Default while we're on the roof rope subject...

    If many have you have read the recent story of the hi-rise fire in Long Beach, CA. you'll remember that a civilian jumped from a 18th floor balcony to escape the fire. I don't want to get long winded regarding policy/procedure etc. and the ability to make or not make "roof rope rescues" during hi-rise fire operations. I was witness to an FDNY roof rope rescue with Lt. Pat Brown, FF Barr etc. in Manhattan about 15 years ago (NY Fire Patrol) They reused the same roof rope to make a second grab. My question is this: I understand FDNY has often utilized this effective tactic when necessary and many are done without the media's attention in OMD's and some smaller buildings where the operation occurs very quickly in initial operations. Now, could Long Beach, CA have done something similar if they were familiar with or had an SOP/GOG etc. for those types of operations during hi-rise fires. I noticed throughout the years that many FD's across the country do not have this type of operation in their "bag of tricks" when confronted with this type of fire in their respective cities and districts that have hi-rises. Isn't it something many should consider when many hi-rise operations may dictate utilizing a roof rope operation to make a grab? Correct me if I'm wrong, enlighten me or throw in your opinions. I'm just trying to create another discussion...

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    they could have use the LSR evolution but that would require them to carry the rope, which I doubt they do. Based on the amount of fire in those pictures I doubt that guy would have survived anyway, I doubt he had a working smoke detector or he tried to put it out himself.

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    At my station in sweden we have integrated harnesses in our pants. When we can due to circumstances we use the fallprotectors.
    They look like a rope which is fastened on the ladder, the rope is inside a roll with a spring so that it can easily run out and in by itself when you walk back. Then it works like a seatbelt, when a sudden move is detected its locks. And on the outer end of the rope there´s a rubber band which softens the fall.

    But like always, when there´s little time it ain´t beeing used.

    But we always use the airial lift when we work on rooftops, so we always have a good workingplatform when we cut through roofs.

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    Default alot of fire!

    Yeah, I agree. After seeing an additional video and the PIO interview, it seems the brothers were doing all they could to make the fire floor before he jumped.

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    Exclamation To safe???

    So we want fall protection for roof operations. I'm from canada and our OHSA states FP for anything over 3m - 10'... So I'm curious am I going to tie off to the roof ladder or have a fall arrest tied to the platform or ladder?
    If I'm on a Peaked roof I would be on Roof ladder if the roof goes where am I now in the attic with the fire Thats got to hurt.If its going to go I want to get out of there ASAP and your F.P is not going to allow that.
    I remeber some one saying once maybe we should have the ladder Stick above us and a FAS attached from us to the stick.... No thanks Get on the roof and vent then get off the roof. Use the roof ladder as your footing thats why we use it. Flat roof ops same thing vent then get off.......
    The Fire Service is becoming so safe that its going to be unsafe.

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    Thanks JAFA62. Your arguments are well taken. I will certainly take them into consideration with regards to developing our SOP for roof ops. Based on what you say, ropes and fall protection are great for non-fire roof incidents, but if there is fire, the rope is a hinderance and a safety hazard, and as we are all trained for roof ops at fires...get up, get it done, get down!

    I believe we will be using fall protection only for rescue ops, not fire.

    Thanks again.

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