1. #1
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    Question Opinions on a brush truck

    4x4,1 ton, diesel, 4-door, single rear wheel, and stock OEM long box

    To carry 300 gallons of water diesel engine powered pump,and 1 booster reel

    I just want to know what anyone out there knows about this type of truck for this purpose.

    Thanks

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    We use a dodge ram 3500 with dulley wheels and were pretty close to being over GVW. We only carrie 200 gallons of water and 150 gpm pump and booster reel. So you might want to look into either a heavyier GVW truck or change around the specs.

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    Here is a truck that is currently in use at my department. It was spec'ed out by a past Chief. It is a Ford F-350 Extended Cab (PowerStroke Diesel Engine), since the Chief has retired we have added overloads and additional support on the rear. This unit carries 600 ft of 3inch hose, 300 gallons of water, small honda generator, misc. tools 2-100ft 1-3/4" hand lines. We are currently looking at replacing the single wheel rear wheels with duals. I would recommend duals and at least an F-450 chassis, if your gonna carry a load like we are...

    The picture is of the rear of the truck. If you would like to see more pictures feel free to email me at rschultzjr@firehousemail.com.
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    Last edited by rschultzjr; 04-02-2007 at 02:29 PM. Reason: updating

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    If you just put in a 300gal skid unit you should be ok. But check with the manufacture of the skid unit for its wet weight. An F-350 SRW can carry about 4k in the bed. the dually is over 5k. If you want to add a lot of equipment other than the skid unit, you should look at a dually.

    Why do you want a diesel engine for the skid unit? a Honda or Vanguard will give you many yaers of trouble free service for much less $$. A diesel is kind of overkill for a 1" line.

    Is this what your looking at doing?
    http://www.cfbody.com/deliveries/far...ancock_mi.html

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    Unless this truck is to never leave the pavement, I would steer clear of the 4 door. Crew cab + LWB makes for a HUGE turning radius.
    Service is the rent you pay for having space on earth.

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    I'd also consider the 450/550 chassis. You could also look into a GMC/Chevy 4500/5500 chassis. From what I understand they have a tighter turning radius than the Fords, which would be handy if you really want the 4-door. Plus they'd have the GVW to handle the water and equipment without getting into weight issues. I don't think the heavier chassis are that much more (from what I've heard, at least) compared to the 1-tons.

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    I agree with HFRH28 I would stay away from the crew cab. Is it going to be a brush truck or a people hauler. You need to determine it's role first.
    Fyrtrks

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    The Blue Hills Fire Dept., Bloomfield CT has taken delivery of a new rapid attack/brush truck. 400 gallons of water, 15 gallons of “class A” foam, 300 GPM pump mounted on a 2007 Ford F550 4x4. The body was built by Firematic Supply Company of East Yapank , NY. The vehicle also features, super single rear tires, pump and roll capability, Raven Blackhawk 5K under hood generator.

    http://www.nefirenews.com/ct/BlueHillsCTE2new.jpg
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    Thoes super singles must be really strong to hold that much weight.How many ply are they? I would worry about putting that much load in such a small area that it would cause the truck to sink faster when going off road.

    FDBH1021,Any Idea how much that truck cost?

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    Whats your thoughts on a jeep? We have a Dodge pick up with a high pressure unit in it. I t works very well.

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    Arrow

    The committee wanted to 4 door for bringing a crew for the ATV that we will be pulling behind. The diesel engine is so that the pump runs off of the same fuel tank as the truck. Are there issues with this that we are unaware of?

    I myself wanted a dually at least and originally it was going to be of the 450 type truck. I don't know that I'm a huge fan of the 4 door after seeing how long the truck is. They don't want the dually because they think that it is bad off road. I disagree but I'm the minority.

    Is it going to be a brush truck or a people hauler
    I like that statement and I may use it. Thanks. If thats ok.

    Thanks for the replies guys, lets keep this going. I know theres more of you out there that know something about this. We don't run that many brush/grass calls so I'm sure theres something we can learn here.

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    A crew cab F-450 is a long truck. We just finished one and I think its somewhere around 20' long. They do have a pretty nice turning radius for being as big as they are. If you want to put a skid unit on and tow a trailer youd better be looking at one of the medium duty chassis. One of our neighboring departments has an F-550 brush truck and they have to empty the tank and take some of the equipment off every year to get it into and out of the water. (It's alsoa 28' fire boat). But you need to consider what the trailer weight that will be sitting on the hitch of that truck. We went with the F-450 knowing that at some point an F-350 would probaby get overloaded pretty easily. Don't spec it so that you have just enough wieght left. Somebody is gonna go "Oh, we should put this or that on it". Guarenteed. The only problem with a medium duty chassis would be that you need a bed, they don't come with one. We put a really nice Knapheide unit on ours, and you can get a lot of storage in them.

    Here's ours...
    http://wrfd4.myphotoalbum.com/view_a...umName=album14

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    An F-550 is 19,500 GVWR. If you need more than that for a grass truck, then you have too much stuff.

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    ^^ The f550 isn't 19,500, the GMC 5500 is. The standard f550 is 17,500. The highest an f550 can go is 19,000 and that is with a long wheelbase and single cab.

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    Default Duals = stuck

    We only run singles or super singles on our brush trucks. Neighbors had duals on pickups and we normally had pull them out when they were stuck.

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    We have a 3500 extended cab flatbed, Duramax,DRW with a 300g skid unit and 20hp pump w/ 1" booster and Reel-tex hose. We added two 48" tool boxes on the bed deck on the right side for saws, extra hose, and misc equipment. Our brush trucks also run our medical calls and the medical equipment is carried in the extended cab. I don't know the exact weight but truck is an 11,400 gvw its hard on brakes and tires. We are specing a new chassis for a mini-pumper remount and are going with an F-550. The 3500 would probably be ok with a 200 gallon tank. Our other brush trucks are 3500 single cab, DRW with a 200 on one and a 250 on the other and both do well but are very close to being overloaded (10k chassis).

    Think about it... when was the last time you removed equipment from a truck? Most trucks keep getting more stuffed into them over the years.

    Ford now has the F-450 in a pickup body configuration and Dodge/ Sterling is bringing out a class 4 and 5 chassis in September or October of this year.

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    The dept. that I respond with uses a 3/4 ton Dodge extended cab with 100 gallons of water and a john bean high pressure pump. The spring time in Ohio the ground is really soft. Unfortunately, this is also grass fire season. The brush trucks need to stay light to run through the fields without getting stuck.

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    I think folks are confusing the difference between a grass buggy meant to be light & nimble with a small tank and pump . and a brush /WU/ interface truck. a brush truck here in the north east is meant to go into the woods roads and places that a full size engine can't access. they typically are larger and carry 3-4oo gals, and have a larger pump and forestry tools. midwest and south you want a truck to move against fast moving grass & light brush fires in large fields and open lands..

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    In our area of the Midwest (NE Iowa) most FD have a 1t pickup for a "brush"/wildland rig (mostly grass fires). They use a 1t vs a real chassis because 1.)what they've always used/what "everyone else has" and 2.) because don't have $ for a larger chassis.

    If you're buying a light duty truck (any pickup) and can come up with $ for a F350 spend the few $ more required for a F550. The cost for a gov't contract puchase of a real chassis/real truck (like an IH midsize 4x4) is not that significnant and worth it. You'll have a 20-30yr truck vs a 10yr solution. And a truck that can haul a large load of water/equipment and 4 large guys off road safely without breaking.

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    Our department runs a 2006 Ford F-450 (dually) with the Powerstroke diesel with a 250 gallon skid unit. we also tow a Kubota RTV with this truck fully loaded with no problems. I don't think you will be happy with the extended cab. Here are a few things to consider:

    1. Do you usually actually have more than 3 people that respond with that truck when it rolls out of the station?

    2. If the answer to question #1 is YES, then do you have a command/squad/utility pickup that can carry the extra personnel for that ATV over the 3 people you can fit in the single cab? If so, what is the point in getting an extended cab when you already have an extra vehicle there they can drive.

    3. An extended cab will probably add anywhere from $6,000-$10,000 to the cost of the truck. If you don't usually have more than 3 people responding with that truck at first out, or if you already have some other vehicle that can easily bring your extra crew to run that ATV, then....what is the reason for getting the extended cab?

    We got our truck as single cab because we have a command vehicle at the same station as our brush truck that can pull the ATV itself if the brush truck needs to get there for a quick attack, or to transport extra crew if they missed the first out crew on the brush truck. really 1 person can operate the ATV effectively if you ask me. we do it all the time.
    Assistant Chief
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    I second the two-truck strategy for two reasons:

    1. We have an F-350 crew cab, long-box, dually. It turns like a bus. It is a great manpower and gear carrier, but not the most functional for off-road use. We use it primarily as a First Responder/light rescue, and it is backup for wildland use. It most often carries the men, and our fullsize short-wheel-base engine does the FFing.

    We have used regular cab 3/4 and 1 ton pickups in the past, and they perform better in the rough stuff. The rear wheels on a dually are poor in the mud, because they are limited in width, so no flotation is provided. A single rear wheel unit can use a slightly wider tire, and gain significant performance in those soft or muddy areas.

    2. I always favor redundancy when working off-road or in the backcountry. Two trucks mean you can either; Pull the stuck/broken unit out, or get the guys home until you can perform a proper recovery.

    I think a standard cab pickup with a skid unit for the wet work, plus a Chief's unit such as a tahoe/suburban, or crew cab pickup make a good combination.
    Never argue with an Idiot. They drag you down to their level, and then beat you with experience!

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    Quote Originally Posted by islandfire03 View Post
    I think folks are confusing the difference between a grass buggy meant to be light & nimble with a small tank and pump . and a brush /WU/ interface truck. a brush truck here in the north east is meant to go into the woods roads and places that a full size engine can't access. they typically are larger and carry 3-4oo gals, and have a larger pump and forestry tools. midwest and south you want a truck to move against fast moving grass & light brush fires in large fields and open lands..

    I agree with your statement it all depends on where you live. If you had a brush truck like they're talking about we'd have it stuck rather quick and would be thinking of options of how to get it out or what not.

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    off road vehicle requirements:
    having Cafs and being agile


    If our 67 CJ had cafs, i'd never would want anything else

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    This is what I would like to see. A Jeep Wrangler "Brute" conversion by www.AEV-conversion.com With a Hemi and lockers and 35-37 inch tires - Unstopable. You can even run a York air compressor off the engine to possibly get you your CAFS?


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    the conversion link doesn't work, it takes you to a search engine page... please post it again.

    I like the brute, being an ole' jeep guy, however, I'd haver to test drive it through and through to see if it would measure up

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