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Thread: NYFD Stop Signs

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    Default NYFD Stop Signs

    Hey everyone,

    What are the stop signs on the doors of FDNY Rigs for? I have seen multiple articles of people complaining / sueing saying people actually stop if a FF opens the door and jumps out leaving the door open, that cars just stop and sit there thinking they have to wait. Whats your opinion?


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    Forum Member HeavyRescueTech's Avatar
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    it's a safety measure. it's a stop sign. stop, make sure it's safe, then slowly proceed. pretty simple, won't you agree?

    is it legal? good question. is it a good idea, in order to make the roadways safer for our fellow firefighters? absolutely.

    btw, I havn't read any complaints or lawsuits, can you please quote where you read it, as well as provide a source?
    If my basic HazMat training has taught me nothing else, it's that if you see a glowing green monkey running away from something, follow that monkey!

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    I saw it in firefighter magazine at the station during a explorers meeting. Ill see if i can find the exact article.

    Quote Originally Posted by DrParasite View Post
    it's a safety measure. it's a stop sign. stop, make sure it's safe, then slowly proceed. pretty simple, won't you agree?

    is it legal? good question. is it a good idea, in order to make the roadways safer for our fellow firefighters? absolutely.

    btw, I havn't read any complaints or lawsuits, can you please quote where you read it, as well as provide a source?

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    Quote Originally Posted by DrParasite View Post
    it's a safety measure. it's a stop sign. stop, make sure it's safe, then slowly proceed. pretty simple, won't you agree?

    is it legal? good question. is it a good idea, in order to make the roadways safer for our fellow firefighters? absolutely.

    btw, I havn't read any complaints or lawsuits, can you please quote where you read it, as well as provide a source?
    I agree 100%. I know I want all traffic to stop when the doors open. Period. Then they can procede cautiously. How can these fools sue? Do they sit at stop signs at the ends of streets and wait for someone to let them go? A STOP sign does not mean stop forever. Ridiculous. We have the signs too, and have no issues. They are reflective and are another cheap way to offer a chance someone might do the right thing and avoid hitting a Brother.

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    I'd love to see the article too. We have reflective stop signs on the doors of our Quantums at work, and I've yet to see it actually hold up traffic (although it would kind of neat to witness...).

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    Quote Originally Posted by RFDACM02 View Post
    Do they sit at stop signs at the ends of streets and wait for someone to let them go? A STOP sign does not mean stop forever.
    While I think it is ridiculous too, there is a little more to it. It's all about expectations. People expect stop signs at ends of roads and know what to do with them. But when encountering a stop sign in a place where you wouldn't expect one, how do you know what to do? How do you know it doesn't mean stop until told otherwise.

    I guess the best example would be a construction flagger. They use stop signs to tell the traffic to stop AND wait until told otherwise. Then he flips the sign around and it says "slowly" or something like that. In this example the intent is to stop until told otherwise.

    Anyhow, like I said, a lawsuit would be absolutely absurd. Sue because people stop when the door opens and a FF hops out? That is the whole point!

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    Quote Originally Posted by WebFire View Post
    I guess the best example would be a construction flagger. They use stop signs to tell the traffic to stop AND wait until told otherwise. Then he flips the sign around and it says "slowly" or something like that. In this example the intent is to stop until told otherwise.
    This would have to be an example of context, The construction worker would probably be surrounded by construction, with lanes closed due to that construction.

    In the instance of the FDNY ( or anyone for that matter) the context would be a bunch of big red trucks with lights flashing and firefighters and such scampering about.

    If an individual is unsure if they can stop or go, then please by all means stop shut the vehicle off and please remove yourself from the traffic pool.

    Our new ambulance has big 4" lights in the door that flash whenever they are open to alert folks that the door in indeed open.
    I.A.C.O.J. "The Cork"

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    Not sure about other parts, but here in CA we have stop signs on school busses that flip out when the bus stops and they seem to work well. The thing here is though that people on both sides of the street must remain stopped and treat it like a traffic light, rather than a sign. I doubt we'd want to clog up an incident with this, but I think that a stop, then procede would definitely be a good consideration.

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    While I dont know the legality end of it, I do know stop signs in the parking lots of grocery stores do not have to be obeyed. I'm assuming these dont either, (again not for sure). I would think they hope people stop for the safety of the firefighters.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RESERVEFORNOW View Post
    Not sure about other parts, but here in CA we have stop signs on school busses that flip out when the bus stops and they seem to work well. The thing here is though that people on both sides of the street must remain stopped and treat it like a traffic light, rather than a sign. I doubt we'd want to clog up an incident with this, but I think that a stop, then procede would definitely be a good consideration.
    The "STOP" sign "goes away" when the FF closes the door of the rig, right?
    Maybe it's just a personal thing against me, but if I jumped out of a rig and left the door flapping wide open, especially on the traffic side, I'd be in for an ***** chewing when the CO saw it.

    Open door. STOP traffic. Jump out. Close door. Do assigned task.

    So easy, even a

    can do it!!!

    My opinions might coincide with someone of importance's POV... I wouldn't know, since I never bothered to ask. My policy is: "Don't ask, don't care."

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    Legality schmegality.

    If it keeps one cellphone talking sandwich eating coffe slurping makeup appllying mustache trimming hair brushing text messaging moron behind the wheel from striking one of our brothers/sisters exiting a rig, I'm for them.
    Last edited by CaptainGonzo; 04-04-2007 at 10:55 AM.
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    So easy, even a

    can do it!!!

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    MembersZone Subscriber Engine58's Avatar
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    We got them on the doors on my truck too, do people stop? HAHA right!!...Why should they!?!
    Andrew
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    A few thoughts (and these are based on IL law).

    1. A stop sign on a fire engine is technically not a valid stop sign. For a stop sign to be valid, under IL law, it has to be at a fixed location prescribed by ordinance or statute, based on a traffic study, etc. Putting one on a fire engine where it is displayed when the door is open would not make for a legal stop sign (i.e. a ticket based on failure to stop at a stop sign would likely be subject to challenge).

    2. That said, if there's a fire engine in the street with emergency lights flashing, and you drive around it because you know it's not a legal stop sign, then you're not only an idiot, but you're also potentially guilty of several other traffic and/or criminal offenses, relating to your obligation to yield to emergency vehicles, utilize traffic lanes appropriately, etc.

    3. Even though the stop sign technically isn't "legal", I would be hard pressed to come up with a scenario where it could create liability for the fire department, even ignoring for the moment tort immunity.

    4. As for the contention that stop signs in parking lots need not be heeded, don't rely on that too much. Many private parking lots enter into traffic enforcement agreements with the municipalities they are located in, whereby the municipality can enforce stop signs, handicapped parking, fire lanes, etc. These agreements are entirely valid and enforceable.

    Just a few thoughts.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AFDExplorer View Post
    if a FF opens the door and jumps out leaving the door open...

    Why would you even think that would happen? So the ECC/LCC can get out and close it for him before repositioning the rig? It's called disipline and common sense. Doors are not just left open. And if it was:
    Quote Originally Posted by DrParasite View Post
    it's a stop sign. stop, make sure it's safe, then slowly proceed. pretty simple, won't you agree?

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    Quote Originally Posted by AFDExplorer View Post
    Hey everyone,

    What are the stop signs on the doors of FDNY Rigs for? I have seen multiple articles of people complaining / sueing saying people actually stop if a FF opens the door and jumps out leaving the door open, that cars just stop and sit there thinking they have to wait. Whats your opinion?

    Post those articles please. I have yet to hear of one. As E229Lt stated, we close the doors when getting off. Engine Co. most of the time have to back stretch and the Truck Cos may look to reposition themselves. I know in my area and most of The Bronx, Cars can not even get past 2 fire apparatus on the side streets.
    IACOJ Member

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    For the most part the signs are intended to elicit a conditioned response from the drivers...not that most NY drivers pay attention to Traffic signs, lights, lanes, emergency vehicles or common courtesy for that matter.

    But when they see the sign out of habit the theory is they will take notice and perhaps slow down or even stop...making the operation in the street safer....or so was explained to me.

    FTM-PTB

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    Forum Member Bones42's Avatar
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    Want people to stop, put pictures of naked men and women on the door.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

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    I tried to get them installed on our new Pierce and everyone in the dept. didn't want to get the shiny new doors ruind.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainGonzo View Post
    Legality schmegality.

    If it keeps one cellphone talking sandwich eating coffe slurping makeup appllying mustache trimming hair brushing text messaging moron behind the wheel from striking one of our brothers/sisters exiting a rig, I'm for them.
    You forgot pants changing, newspaper reading, email answering morons

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