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    Default Marine Opposed To War Ordered Discharged

    I was going to try to put this to another thread, but it sorta begged to be an individual. This story brings up a bit of a mixed bag of thoughts. We've seen a few soldiers claims for contientious objector status that raised a huge ruckus because of their methods. The story here has a different bend on the same problem. Oddly, as a soldier myself, if things are as they have been reported, I see no problem with this case. Seems to me that he has stated his difficulty with care and attention and in an appropriate manner. Maybe?

    Marine Opposed To War Ordered Discharged
    Judge Grants Conscientious-Objector Status

    POSTED: 10:54 pm EDT April 3, 2007
    UPDATED: 10:55 pm EDT April 3, 2007

    SAN JOSE, Calif. -- A Marine lance corporal who said he had an aversion to killing and participating in war must be released from the military as a conscientious objector, a federal judge ruled.

    The Marine Corps Reserves must discharge Robert Zabala, 23, by mid-April, under the ruling.

    Zabala said he was troubled during boot camp in 2003 when a fellow recruit committed suicide and a superior used profanities to belittle the recruit. Zabala said he was "abhorred by the blood lust (the superior) seemed to possess," according to a 2006 court petition for conscientious-objector status.

    Another boot camp instructor showed recruits a "motivational clip" showing Iraqi corpses, explosions, gun fights and rockets set to a heavy metal song that included the lyrics, "Let the bodies hit the floor," the petition said. Zabala said he cried, while other recruits nodded their heads in time with the beat.

    "The sanctity of life that formed the moral center of petitioner's life was being challenged," his attorney, Stephen Collier, wrote in a court filing.

    In his ruling Thursday, U.S. District Judge James Ware, who served 13 years in the Army Reserves, said he was convinced of Zabala's sincerity about his struggles to "reconcile the demands of duty with the demands of conscience."

    Zabala, who followed some Buddhist-related traditions, was previously denied conscientious-objector status after applying in 2004, court records show.

    Copyright 2007 by The Associated Press.
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    He cried because of the death of the people that killed our fellow Americans. Let him out and send him to fight for the other side. He DOES NOT deserve the title of United States Marine.

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    A Marine lance corporal
    It really begs the question on what the heck did he think he was joining the Marines to do?

    Let him out? Sure. With a dis-honorable(sp?) discharge.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ruffrydausmc View Post
    He cried because of the death of the people that killed our fellow Americans. Let him out and send him to fight for the other side. He DOES NOT deserve the title of United States Marine.

    I hope you're not refering to 9/11, because Iraq and Afghanistan are different countries.

    That being said, I don't think there should be a war in Iraq right now. I don't think it was the US's place to be there, not without more support from the rest of the UN. Then again, Im not a marine, so...
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    Quote Originally Posted by OlieCan View Post
    Im not a marine, so...
    It's Marine, by the way.

    Robert Zabala is one of the war resisters profiled in Peter Laufer's Mission Rejected: U.S. Soldiers Who Say No to Iraq, pp. 137-183

    "Robert says he first was caught off guard during physical training. "They teach you how to punch. The instructor says, 'Punch!' The recruits' response is, 'Kill!'" This is typical Marine training. Marines are carefully trained and highly disciplined warriors meant to be used against an enemy the government wants dead."

    What did that idiot think he was joining, the Boy Scouts? He enlisted after 9/11 and didn't expect to have to fight? Want to bet his "conscience" popped up when his unit got deployment orders? Good bye and good riddance.

    This guys sums it up better than I could-http://ruleofreason.blogspot.com/

    "Zabala misses the forest for the trees. If you value your life, you must confront those who seek to take that life from you; the Marines are simply America's premiere institution dedicated to this principle. And while individual Marine leaders may do things that one may rightfully find appalling, the institution itself serves a clear moral purpose. Zabala says that "the sanctity of life" is his moral center, yet he ultimately blanches at what the Marines must do to protect that sanctity.

    At the most fundamental, the enemy lives by a death code and we do not. In the face of this truth Zabala has elected to become a pacifist. He has taken a stand that if practiced by all in the West would allow evil to win without so much as a fight. Of all the evils presented in this story, it is this one that I find to be the most vicious."

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    Quote Originally Posted by OlieCan View Post
    I hope you're not refering to 9/11, because Iraq and Afghanistan are different countries.

    That being said, I don't think there should be a war in Iraq right now. I don't think it was the US's place to be there, not without more support from the rest of the UN. Then again, Im not a marine, so...
    I don't think anybody wants a war anywhere!

    I am curious what exactly you think should have been done in Iraq?

    If we didn't do something nobody else would have. I will agree we should have taken care of the issue when we were there the first time but that didn't happen. Sorry something had to be done and it is sad we are left to handle it mostly alone. The Marines and Army aren't around for fun, they are for taking real estate! That is why I joined the Air Force! E-Mail!!! A big THANKS to everybody who is serving or has served!

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    I'd personally be happy if someone like this got discharged. Seeing something like a fellow soldier commit suicide or s**t like that, a lot of people can be really messed up by this. And these are the people who get something called PTSD. So say he gets all messed up, some jacka** drill sergent is belittling people, especially a dead guy,and causes this guy too snap and ends up shootin up a bunch of people. What would you say then? I say his *** should have been kicked out ages ago and he should have brought this s**t forward long before now and released

    I'd hate too be in a Unit with some of you though I will say. You bash the hell out of this guy for this. I'd hate too see what you do too a member who may bring something like this, or another major issue, forwrd and stays in the unit. It's really sickening too see actually


    I agree with Olie. Many of the other UN countries are not going too help because many of them beleive the same things.
    Last edited by ndvfdff33; 04-04-2007 at 06:10 PM.
    If someone with multiple personalities threatens to kill himself, is it considered a hostage situation?

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    Hey C'mon Guys,

    He just wanted the government to pay for his college, housing, food, clothing, holidays, pension, and entertainment, all in exchange for his willingness to serve his country in a fancy uniform like on the commercial.

    Who said anything about "Fighting". Darn recruiters.




    (And good riddence. He would only slow his platoon down.)
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    The coward joined the fricken Marine Corps, WTF. It's like wanting to be a plumber but not deal with poop.
    Hope it's a dishonorable and he gets absolutely none of the federal benefits earned by those that understand the value of sacrifice.
    My posts reflect my views and opinions, not the organization I work for or my IAFF local. Some of which they may not agree. I.A.C.O.J. member
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    Quote Originally Posted by ndvfdff33 View Post
    I'd hate too be in a Unit with some of you though I will say. You bash the hell out of this guy for this. I'd hate too see what you do too a member who may bring something like this, or another major issue, forwrd and stays in the unit. It's really sickening too see actually
    Well, if I'm one of the ones you're referring to, you would be way off base. I'll have you know, it is my mission to take care of Marines. I/We, speaking of officers and senior NCOs, do everything we can to help our Marines through difficult events. Example-I had a new PFC check in 2 months ago 3 days after his cousin-who he joined with on the buddy program-was KIA in Iraq. We did everything we could to get him to talk to a Chaplain, give him time off, and offerred assistance for anything he or his family needed. We have helped get Marines temporary orders or extra drills when they've been laid off from their civilian jobs, let them make up drills due to family events, and generally do all we can to perpetuate a feeling of comradeship and brotherhood.

    This slug had absolutely no right to those benefits. He was so "traumatized" by his bootcamp experience he waited a whole year to apply for his CO status. It is not mentioned what unit he belonged to or if/when his unit was deployed, since most of the articles seem to slant to his point of view. I'd bet he was looking for the GI Bill $ and hoping he wouldn't have to go anywhere. He went the CO route for publicity-if he wanted out, he could have just gone UA (AWOL to you Army folks) and let the administrative separation take effect after 9 missed drills. He's a turd and wasted $30K of the govt's money at boot camp.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OlieCan View Post
    I hope you're not refering to 9/11, because Iraq and Afghanistan are different countries.
    Your statement makes no sense. Of course they are, but what does that have to do with anything?


    Quote Originally Posted by OlieCan View Post
    That being said, I don't think there should be a war in Iraq right now.
    You are correct. There should not be a war anywhere in the world, yet there are dozens of wars and conflicts throughout the world. This is why we have the Marine Corps.

    Quote Originally Posted by OlieCan View Post
    I don't think it was the US's place to be there, not without more support from the rest of the UN.
    F@ck the UN. Useless organization. Never has doen a damned thing for anything.

    Quote Originally Posted by OlieCan View Post
    Then again, Im not a marine, so...
    It shows. Or you would know that every man and woman who has graduated from the Marine Corps Recruit Depot at Parris Island, SC or San Diego, CA has earned that most wonderful title and privilege......To call themselves "Marine."

    Consider yourself corrected. Twice.

    Quote Originally Posted by ndvfdff33 View Post
    I'd personally be happy if someone like this got discharged.
    As would all of us. I do not want someone who is afraid to squeeze the trigger on their rifle to kill a scumbag who wants us dead because he "respects life too much."

    Quote Originally Posted by ndvfdff33 View Post
    Seeing something like a fellow soldier commit suicide or s**t like that, a lot of people can be really messed up by this.
    And how is it different from seeing his platoon mate killed by an RPG or bullet to the head from that scumbag terrorist? Boo friggin hoo. Life sucks. As it was said, this is not the f@cking Boy Scouts. Marines do one thing......Kill. We do it well. That is what keeps this nation free.

    Quote Originally Posted by ndvfdff33 View Post
    And these are the people who get something called PTSD. So say he gets all messed up, some jacka** drill sergent is belittling people
    Marines do not have drill sergeants. We have Drill Instructors. And he was belittling a guy whose sole idea in life was to strap himself with explosives and/or automatic weapons and kill as many people as possible. Belittle away. He is hell-bent on killing men, women, and children to kill Marines. No loss to the world. We are better off with scum like that dead.

    Quote Originally Posted by ndvfdff33 View Post
    especially a dead guy,and causes this guy too snap and ends up shootin up a bunch of people.
    Very unlikely to happen. If you served in these types of units then you would know this.

    Quote Originally Posted by ndvfdff33 View Post
    What would you say then?
    Depends on who he shot. Enemy? Good job. Friendlies? Something broke down in the system and it needs to be addressed.

    Quote Originally Posted by ndvfdff33 View Post
    I say his *** should have been kicked out ages ago and he should have brought this s**t forward long before now and released
    He should have been a man and never signed on the dotted line. Has he never seen Full Metal Jacket, The Boys From Company B, Mail Call, The Sands of Iwo Jima, any war documentary, or Marine recruiting film? Marines kill, and we do it well in order to preserve freedom.

    Quote Originally Posted by ndvfdff33 View Post
    I'd hate too be in a Unit with some of you though I will say.
    And we would not want you in that unit with us. It is not about lacking comapssion, it is about not tolerating stupidity. This guy has cost hundreds of thousands of dollars of taxpayer money in training, education, and legal costs. All because he lacks the common sense that God gave a gnat. Guys like this get other people killed. Because of his stupidity, ignorance, and selfishness, one of two things happened: 1) his unit deploys to combat with one less rifle to protect people, or 2) another Marine is pulled from their unit, friends, and family to fill his billet because of his stupidity, ignorance, and selfishness.

    Quote Originally Posted by ndvfdff33 View Post
    You bash the hell out of this guy for this.
    I bash this guys lack of common sense, poor research into his future, his stupidity, ignorance, selfishness, and inability to think of the big picture.

    Quote Originally Posted by ndvfdff33 View Post
    I'd hate too see what you do too a member who may bring something like this, or another major issue, forwrd and stays in the unit. It's really sickening too see actually
    A guy like this would likely be turned around one way or the other. Be shipped to a REMF position or something else. Or he deploys and when the first round snaps above his head from some scumbag hell-bent on his death, he flicks the selector switch to "BURST" and squeezes the trigger.

    Quote Originally Posted by ndvfdff33 View Post
    I agree with Olie. Many of the other UN countries are not going too help because many of them beleive the same things.
    And those countries in the UN who would rather bow down, roll over, and kiss radicalism's @ss will fall. This is not a war on religion, this is a war on freedom, liberty, and a way of life for hundreds of millions of men, women, and children. Including you.

    You are welcome for my service.
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    Sharkie,

    I couldn't have said it better. You've explained what it is to be in combat and what you need to do and why. He would have been KIA within 3 months but WOULD have been a danger to not only his squad but the entire platoon. Guys like this cause others to end up killed, I've seen it happen. Semper Fi to you.
    Last edited by FireLt1951; 04-04-2007 at 07:55 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ndvfdff33 View Post
    I'd personally be happy if someone like this got discharged. Seeing something like a fellow soldier commit suicide or s**t like that, a lot of people can be really messed up by this. And these are the people who get something called PTSD. So say he gets all messed up, some jacka** drill sergent is belittling people, especially a dead guy,and causes this guy too snap and ends up shootin up a bunch of people. What would you say then? I say his *** should have been kicked out ages ago and he should have brought this s**t forward long before now and released

    I'd hate too be in a Unit with some of you though I will say. You bash the hell out of this guy for this. I'd hate too see what you do too a member who may bring something like this, or another major issue, forwrd and stays in the unit. It's really sickening too see actually


    I agree with Olie. Many of the other UN countries are not going too help because many of them beleive the same things.

    Huh? The guy is weak....the guy that commited suicide was even weaker. yes I said it....suicide boy was weak. If he can not take the hard ships of boot camp...then he sure as hell isn't going to take the hardships of combat. I would rather someone commit suicide than have everyone on the patrol zapped because he was "stressed out".

    It is unfortunate that someone commited suicide, but chances are...the guy that did it wasn't all roses and cupcakes anyway...he probably came in with some sort of a problem.

    And yes you would hate to be in my unit. Our job is to kill people...that is why we exist. There is no room for weakness or people with no heart.

    Enjoy....

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    Quote Originally Posted by DaSharkie View Post

    And how is it different from seeing his platoon mate killed by an RPG or bullet to the head from that scumbag terrorist? Boo friggin hoo. Life sucks. As it was said, this is not the f@cking Boy Scouts. Marines do one thing......Kill. We do it well. That is what keeps this nation free.


    Marines do not have drill sergeants. We have Drill Instructors. And he was belittling a guy whose sole idea in life was to strap himself with explosives and/or automatic weapons and kill as many people as possible. Belittle away. He is hell-bent on killing men, women, and children to kill Marines. No loss to the world. We are better off with scum like that dead.



    You are welcome for my service.
    I never said you wouldn't get screwed up seeing a platoon mate f**ked up did I? As for the Marines do one thing. Kill. I can honestly say I am thankfull that I'm not part of an organization that prides itself on being trigger happy blood lusting lunatics.

    As for the drill sergents. How the hell am I supposed too know and more importantly why should I care. That article talks about it, FLAT OUT SAYS BELITTLES THE RECRUITS. READ IT.


    I agree the scumbags who strap f**kin bombs too themselves deserve too be dead. These *********s killed some my buddys too so dont think your the only military service loosing troops pal.

    I wouldn't want anything too do with your service,but thanks anyways. Keep on Killin Turbo


    As for those instructors. What a bunch of power trippin pumps. Its *********s like this that make the rest of the world look at your military like a bunch of psycho *********s. People say it helps them so they won't break under stress if taken as a POW. BULLS*IT. And it doesn't make them any better of a soldier. Thats just a laugh and joke really, watching that crap. Scary Crowd I'm more upset that I lost that 5 minutes of my life
    Last edited by ndvfdff33; 04-04-2007 at 09:21 PM.
    If someone with multiple personalities threatens to kill himself, is it considered a hostage situation?

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    NVDFD mentioned PTSD. I wish this phrase never came about. We need to go back to calling it Shell Shock. George Carlin said it best. The phrase PTSD has all the life sucked out of it. With Shell Shock, you can almost hear the bombs going off.

    This guy should get at least an other then honorable. At least then he'll have to remember his bad choices every time he applies for a new job

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    Gentlemen,

    What is all the fuss about one "Reserve" Marine who doesn't want to go to Iraq? I don't give a crap one way or the other. He's just one spineless turd out of 175,000. One less whinning SOB to have to baby sit in the zone.

    I retired from the Corps after 26 years at the rank of Master Gunnery Sergeant (E9). This kid means nothing, he will always be what he is and if the Corps can't change that, then I say let him go home to Momma and back on the the tit and stay the hell of of the way. During my career in the Marine Corps I learned a host of things:

    A Marine lance corporal who said he had an aversion to killing and participating in war must be released from the military as a conscientious objector, a federal judge ruled.

    That is his right to do under the constitution. You don't have to agree with it, but you can't change it.

    The Marine Corps Reserves must discharge Robert Zabala, 23, by mid-April, under the ruling.

    That's the law. As Marines we are obligated to abide by the laws we defend.

    Zabala said he was troubled during boot camp in 2003 when a fellow recruit committed suicide and a superior used profanities to belittle the recruit. Zabala said he was "abhorred by the blood lust (the superior) seemed to possess," according to a 2006 court petition for conscientious-objector status.

    Highly exaggerated. If you have never been a Drill Instructor, you wouldn't understand what the job requires. Marine Corps Recruit Depot has a policy against the afore mentioned statement of profane language and degrading comments, and it is strictly enforced. If I had my DI performance folder, I could prove it. Recruits are supposed to be screened before they arrive at recruit training. Drill Instructors are not responsible for performing psych evals. 99.9% of the recruits that commit suicide in recruit training, had issues before their arrival and thought that becoming a Marine would redeem them.... until they found out that they have to earn the title of Marine.

    Another boot camp instructor showed recruits a "motivational clip" showing Iraqi corpses, explosions, gun fights and rockets set to a heavy metal song that included the lyrics, "Let the bodies hit the floor," the petition said. Zabala said he cried, while other recruits nodded their heads in time with the beat.

    Don't buy it, either. That sort of video was strictly against the SOP when I was a DI 28 years ago. I don't know what their doing down there now and it's not my problem. But one recruit out of 60 in the platoon feeling "abhorred" and cries over a video, he would have been segregated by his own peers for that. PTSD my ***, this turd hasn't been any where to aquire PTSD.

    "The sanctity of life that formed the moral center of petitioner's life was being challenged," his attorney, Stephen Collier, wrote in a court filing.

    What about the sanctity of lives that were destroyed during 9/11? Mr Collier can kiss my "brown side out". I'd like to see his face if he were to get arrested for practicing law in his country. He'd be singing a different tune.

    Zabala, who followed some Buddhist-related traditions, was previously denied conscientious-objector status after applying in 2004, court records show.

    Probably decided to be a buddhist when he figured out that his reserve unit was going to be deployed. Always happens that way.

    Gunnyv's comments are well said. He's been there, done that and has drawer full of t-shirts. I say good ridence to this welp. We don't need him out there to be a headache for a Gunny to have to deal with. Gunnery Sergeants have more important task to do, like lead Marines into combat!

    On a final note, if you don't agree with the war, that's one of your rights I defended for 26 years of my life, so screw you very much! IF you think we should pullout of the war, fine with me. But what are you willing to sacrifice when the war lands on American soil. Think it won't happen? Better think again. The US isn't the only country that has "the technology", they got at least nine people under our noses to do 9/11, didn't they?
    Oh, and by the way, there ain't no draft, so I guess your sons, daughters, nephews and nieces should be more careful about choosing a vocation in the armed forces. If they believe that crap about going to college in the Army etc, etc.. ya didn't raise them right.

    Canadiens don't have the right to talk about the American military. I don't know jack about the Canadien Armed Forces and therefore I won't pretend to know and tell you about your military, even though I don't have no use for them. So why don't you shut that gap in your face before somebody sticks something in it. Canadiens are only good for one thing, tourism dollars.

    And, yes I had a successful tour as a DI.
    Last edited by JAXFF7086; 04-04-2007 at 10:56 PM.

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    First of all, Guny, Shark and the others, I sincerely would like to thank you for your service.

    Secondly, Shark, you are debating this subject with a Canadian citizen who most likely has little or no clue as to the Honor, Pride and Tradition of the US Marine Corps. What is hysterical is that he is all for violence on a hockey rink (per posts in another forum) but decries violence in a branch of the US Military that is actively involved in a war. Makes perfect sense to me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ndvfdff33 View Post
    I never said you wouldn't get screwed up seeing a platoon mate f**ked up did I? As for the Marines do one thing. Kill. I can honestly say I am thankfull that I'm not part of an organization that prides itself on being trigger happy blood lusting lunatics.
    No Marine that I ever served with - including the 3rd Marines - was EVER blood lusting. Marines are consumate professionals. We have a job to do. Spilling of blood is necessary for the preservation of freedom.

    However, when my nation is threatened I have no problem aiming the business end of a weapon against those with hostile intent towards it, my fellow Warriors, or me.

    I am no lunatic. I am not lusting of blood.

    You, obviously have no comprehension of the Marine Corps or what it takes to be part of a organization greater than one's own self.

    Quote Originally Posted by ndvfdff33 View Post
    As for the drill sergents. How the hell am I supposed too know and more importantly why should I care. That article talks about it, FLAT OUT SAYS BELITTLES THE RECRUITS. READ IT.
    What is done at the Depots is not belittling. You are supposed to know because you are speaking on a subject. If you are ignorant of the facts and nuances of the discussion it weakens your argument. That is why you should care.

    And I see no mention that the recruits were belittled. By the way, what belittlement is, is open to personal interpretation.

    Quote Originally Posted by ndvfdff33 View Post
    I agree the scumbags who strap f**kin bombs too themselves deserve too be dead. These *********s killed some my buddys too so dont think your the only military service loosing troops pal.
    I never said they were skippy. These guys will kill you in a minute. And U.S. Marines will die for you, so that you do not have to.

    You are welcome.

    Quote Originally Posted by ndvfdff33 View Post
    I wouldn't want anything too do with your service,but thanks anyways. Keep on Killin Turbo
    And we want nothing to do with people who are not willing to give of themselves, have no love of freedom and are not willing to die for it - or their friends. Never said you should join. But you show that you lack any true understanding of military service (let alone serving as a Marine) by your comments. You show your own ignorance of the matter.

    Quote Originally Posted by ndvfdff33 View Post
    As for those instructors. What a bunch of power trippin pumps. Its *********s like this that make the rest of the world look at your military like a bunch of psycho *********s. People say it helps them so they won't break under stress if taken as a POW. BULLS*IT. And it doesn't make them any better of a soldier. Thats just a laugh and joke really, watching that crap. Scary Crowd I'm more upset that I lost that 5 minutes of my life
    The only way to prepare men and women for war is to induce high amounts of stress. These are not "power trippin pimps." They are very good at what they do. We cannot have someone who cannot handle stress on the battlefield. Every Marine is a rifleman. A cook, or admin pogue can be pulled at a moments notice, plugged into a unit, and effectively act as an 0311.

    The experiences of recruit training do make a difference. They always have. I doubt that you will ever understand that. Yet you insult men and women, and those of us who have served.

    And you call others "pimps" or "*********s."


    A cliche, but so true: "For those who fought for it, freedom has a flavor the protected will never know."

    You are welcome. The sacrifice of others gives you the ability to speak badly of those that provide for their freedom. Some people just do not understand it.
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  19. #19
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    Well now. It seems that I've not only opened the proverbial can of worms, but kicked the cat and done a bit of cow tipping too, with maybe the odd outhouse included.

    I kinda figured this article would stir the pot but shoulda known the mud storm this would create. The entire topic is a very sensative subject for anyone who does or has served in any armed force in any country.

    Being in the job and location I am in, I've had the opportunity to meet with several folks from all US forces, including Marines. This comes from being the Canadian Country Representative to the Foreign Joint Services NCO Association (any of you who have served in the DC area anytime over the past 30 odd years may know of us.) Everyone I've worked with from the Association and in my other dealings through the Embassy have been really great people. Yes, there have been a few Wing-Nuts in the crowd, but those are in every walk of life anyhow, right. You deal with them (or not) and then move on.

    Now whether Zabala gets an honorable or dishonorable discharge is not really worth spending a lot of time over. I think, anyhow. What I think is important are essentially two things. 1) That he has expressed his desire to not serve - that is being addressed now and 2) he will not be serving with or "slowing down" any of his compatriots.

    While I can respect a person for his/her choices, as a soldier and a section leader (when required) I would rather have 4 highly trained and motivated people working with me rather than 20 who do not have the drive or desire to accomplish the mission.

    On a note regarding PTSD. I have the "distinction" of direct line experience with a few folks who have been clinically diagnosed with that problem. I was employed with Fleet Manpower Coordination at the time. Two of them were Navy divers who worked the Swiss Air incident. I still dont know the exact details of what they saw and did during that event. What I do know is that at least one of them experienced a "diver emergency" while ascending from a dive and had to be resuscitated. I also know that whatever happened to cause that messed with this guy's mind real bad.

    Around the same time, at the army base in Edmonton, a trooper who had recently returned from Kosovo who had also been diagnosed a PTSD patient. Again the details are somewhat sketchy but what is known is that he drove his Toyota pick up truck through the front doors of the Base Orderly Room.

    This brings me to a question. Sure in some cases the use of PTSD "dumbs down" the impact of what is broken in a man's mind, but "shell shock" implies that he was in a wartime combat zone. We all know that there are many folks here in the forums (some of you may know idividuals from your own company) who have been diagnosed with PTSD. So tell me, would you say they were "shell shocked" after pulling a dead/burned someone from a fire building or fatal MVA?

    Have I said how much I love my Job? Its "Friday", 5 April and I just got told that we are standing down at 1300 for the Easter Long Weekend.
    If you don't do it RIGHT today, when will you have time to do it over? (Hall of Fame basketball player/coach John Wooden)

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    Well said Master Guns.
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    I don't think anyone here will belittle the fact that PTSD exists, or how debilitating it can be.
    But to think that you are going to suffer from PTSD because you saw somebody yelled at is ludicrous.
    ndvfdff33, you comments are not even worth replying to. They are exactly what I would expect from an elitist who speaks like an expert on something they know nothing about. Since the US has been carrying your candy asses since the 2nd world war, I'll just say this, you are welcome.
    My posts reflect my views and opinions, not the organization I work for or my IAFF local. Some of which they may not agree. I.A.C.O.J. member
    "I ask, Sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people. To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them."
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaSharkie View Post
    Your statement makes no sense. Of course they are, but what does that have to do with anything?
    The way I read his origional comment it just seemed to me for some reason that he was referring to 9/11.

    You are correct. There should not be a war anywhere in the world, yet there are dozens of wars and conflicts throughout the world. This is why we have the Marine Corps.
    You completely avoided what was clearly the idea behind my comment. Obviously nobody likes war, but I was stating specifically that I don't think there should be one in Iraq.

    F@ck the UN. Useless organization. Never has doen a damned thing for anything.
    Its useless because its run by the US. The US is such a superpower that I don't even know why there is a UN. The US will do things with or without its support anyway.

    It shows. Or you would know that every man and woman who has graduated from the Marine Corps Recruit Depot at Parris Island, SC or San Diego, CA has earned that most wonderful title and privilege......To call themselves "Marine."
    Im glad it shows. To being able to call yourself a marine the most "Wonderful privilege" is such an arrogant thing to say its sickening. Anyone who is a marine is no better than me being a part time, probational firefighter, oy my dad who prints CDs for companies or my friend who is a manager at a retail store. The egotistic manner at how you seemingly put yourself and other marines above others is sickening.

    Consider yourself corrected. Twice.
    Negative.


    I support the troops for them doing what needs to be done, but I don't support how the government feels it needs to be done. Bush is a moron and never should have been president. The Electoral college is a joke, and it should be popular vote, but thats a whole new topic.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SPFDRum View Post
    I don't think anyone here will belittle the fact that PTSD exists, or how debilitating it can be.
    But to think that you are going to suffer from PTSD because you saw somebody yelled at is ludicrous.
    ndvfdff33, you comments are not even worth replying to. They are exactly what I would expect from an elitist who speaks like an expert on something they know nothing about. Since the US has been carrying your candy asses since the 2nd world war, I'll just say this, you are welcome.
    Actually I think the article said something about belittling the fact that a member of his platoon had died? And ya, I'd likely take exception to that too. Oh wait. NO I WOULD take exception. Been in those shoes myself. Reprimands in my favour were written.

    As for "carrying your candy asses"...... as a Professional Canadian Soldier, I am required to take offence to that. As I do the comment about being "enlisted". I could go on and write for hours about what I think about several "officers" and "Ring-Knockers" in particular, having worked for, with, above, and around them for my entire career.

    Education and gold bars do not make a great leader.

    Education, experience, common sense, professional courtesy and loyalty to the troops go a long way to building a great leader.
    If you don't do it RIGHT today, when will you have time to do it over? (Hall of Fame basketball player/coach John Wooden)

    "I may be slow, but my work is poor." Chief Dave Balding, MVFD

    "Its not Rocket Science. Just use a LITTLE imagination." (Me)

    Get it up. Get it on. Get it done!

    impossible solved cotidie. miracles postulo viginti - quattuor hora animadverto

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  24. #24
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    Im glad it shows. To being able to call yourself a marine the most "Wonderful privilege" is such an arrogant thing to say its sickening.
    Exactly what one would expect of someone who has never proven themselves, put something ahead of their own selfish gains, or knows the meaning of sacrifice.
    My posts reflect my views and opinions, not the organization I work for or my IAFF local. Some of which they may not agree. I.A.C.O.J. member
    "I ask, Sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people. To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them."
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  25. #25
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    As for "carrying your candy asses"...... as a Professional Canadian Soldier, I am required to take offense to that.
    As well you should, shows integrity and a sense of duty on your part. That I respect.
    My posts reflect my views and opinions, not the organization I work for or my IAFF local. Some of which they may not agree. I.A.C.O.J. member
    "I ask, Sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people. To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them."
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    during Virginia's Convention to Ratify the Constitution, 1788
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