Thread: Hydrogen Fires Info Needed
04-09-2007, 10:56 AM #1
Hydrogen Fires Info Needed
I am looking for information on Hydrogen Fires. I am the trainer for the Fire Brigade at a Nuclear Power Station. We use a fair amount of Hydrogen. I am looking for information on Tactics, Fire Fighting methods, Agent application rates, lesson plans, videos, power points, Anything!!
Any help would be greatly appreciated. You can E-mail me at Scott.E.Baldwin@dom.com or phone 920-388-8645.
Thanks a bunch a head of time,
04-09-2007, 07:35 PM #2
You won't see any flames from a hydrogen fire unless there are other materials burning with it. It burns clear, all you will see is a heat shimmer.
We used to have a facility in town that used liquid hydrogen to make industrial diamonds, and had a fire detail whenever the tank was filled. The pumper hooked into a hydrant and then tied into the deluge system that surrounded the tank. The tank had two retention ponds to capture any liquid hydrogen that should escape. the fire detection system was rather "low tech"... corn brooms that were located on the posts of the chain link fence that surrounded the tank. If we were to see any form of heat shimmer or the brooms catch fire, we would have pumped into the deluge system In the 5 years that they had the tank there, there was never an incident.
The company is building a new R&D lab for development of fuel cells. They will also be using hydrogen, but it will be compressed hydrogen from a tube trailer. The building will be fully sprinklered with an addressable fire alarm system."The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY
04-10-2007, 01:56 PM #3
I understand what you are decribing at the hydrigen. Is there any way you can send me a picture of that "Low Tech" detection system you described in your post. I would like to use that for training and discussion purposes.
Thanks for the reply and info.
04-10-2007, 02:43 PM #4
04-10-2007, 10:43 PM #5
- Join Date
- Oct 2004
Nuke, which plant are you at....Kewanee by chance..... I work at Cook in SW Michigan. I will check with our trainer and see what we have. Our hydrogen tanks have deluge systems. I agree with the broom idea, even for an attack or diversion spray.... thats one thing we do as a backup or you'll never see it coming.
bobI got your back
04-11-2007, 10:12 AM #6
04-13-2007, 08:17 AM #7
Thanks for all of the input and help everyone.
fyremanbob: Yes, I am at Kewaunee. I think the previous trainer here went to Cook after leaving here, not sure though.
04-13-2007, 04:44 PM #8
- Join Date
- Oct 2004
Yes, our trainer here was at Kewaunee. Still working on the H fire info.
bobI got your back
08-04-2007, 10:57 PM #9
- Join Date
- Aug 2007
- jeddah/saudi arabia
As you know, heat,openflames,electrical sparks and static electricity easly ignite hydrogen, it will burn with pale blue, almost invisible flame. Most hydrogen fires will have the flame charactistics of a torch or jet and will orignate at the point when the hydrogen is discharging. if a leak is suspected in any part of system, a hydrogen fire is to shutt off the flow of gas, however if the fire is extingushed without stopping the flow gas an explosive mixture may form creating a more serious hazards than the fire it self. should re-ignition occur from hot surface or other sources.
a mixture of 3 quarter of water and quarter of clay in 55 gal drum using 2.5" pickup tube discharging towred the suspected target ( hydrogen released )always under pressure this may help to recognise the invisible flame. you may use a color ink mixed with water instead of clay ( mud ).
thank u for having me.
01-17-2009, 12:46 PM #10
I looked trough our national hazmat instructions http://www.ttl.fi/ova/vety.html (Useless unless you know Finnish). I translated parts of it: (1 meter is a little longer than 1 yard)
Hydrogen-airmix ignites with as little as 0,02 mJ of energy, a leak from a pressured container will generate enough static electricity for ignition. Also, rust will make hydrogen self ignite in temperatures far lower than it's self ignition temperature. A burning flame will be hard to detect, touching it will lead to serious burns. Being inside a cloud if hydrogen-air mix igniting will cause serious burns.
FIRE & EXPLOSION
Hydrogen burn extremely hot with an almost invisible bluish flame, it might be detected in daylight due to altered transparency in the air. Use paper, canvas or plastic at the end of a stick to detect the fire. Secure 100 meters around a gas tube or 200 meters around a gas tank
Close the leak if it can be done safely, if not, and the flame isn't touching a gas tube or tank, let it burn. Cool the tubes or tanks with water, move gas tubes further away. Extinguishing a hydrogen flame is not recommended since hydrogen then will gather and easily reignite and this might cause burn injuries or an explosion. If the hydrogen fire must be put out, direct powder or CO2 at the flame, in large fires use water. The burning point must be cooled.
Leaking hydrogen will gather in the higher regions of a closed space, leaking hydrogen can be detected trough the sound of it escaping. Use paper, canvas or plastic at the end of a stick to make sure the hydrogen isn't burning. Secure the area, remove potential ignition sources, stop the leak if it is safe to do and ventilate.
Also, the TOKEVA instruction (hazmat respons for fire departments), has pretty much the same instruction with this addition: That a powder extinguisher from a distance can be used for finding out if the hydrogen is burning and locate where it is. If the hydrogen is burning, the hot flame will make the extingusher powder glow. Our SOP are those instructions, we have a number of power generating turbines that are cooled by hydrogen in our area.
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