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  1. #1
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    Default Your IC, how would you attack this blaze?

    http://www.onlyredtrucks.com/video/R...9_MelodyLn.wmv


    This fire reminds me of one we critiqued a month ago or so. This is the way I thought that fire should have been fought. Maybe the outcome would have been the same, or maybe different, it is almost impossible to know, and we can all play monday morning QB. I really like this guys site, and would like to keep it up, so lets try and have some positive comments and no bashing. State your opinion and respect that of others, we will always disagree, lets learn from each other.


  2. #2
    MembersZone Subscriber fireslayer1237's Avatar
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    they did a pretty good job to me. the only thing i can think to change is the line set up for exposure protection is that water curtains don't work they should apply water directly on the exposure to cool it if they have class a foam apply a 1% mix on it for a little better protection so your line can fight fire also.

    in my dept we would have fought it differently only because we dont have much manpower 2 man engines. the driver has his hands full while the Lt. does a walk around he would pull the 2 1/2 solidbore preconnect then either overhaul or do a standard hydrant hook up. if second in still hadn't arrived he would pull a 1 3/4 preconnect to the front door. pack up and start get ready to go interior as soon as the next in engine showed up and could take the pump.

  3. #3
    Forum Member Dave1983's Avatar
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    Looked OK, except they pulled what looked like 1 3/4 for a 2 1/2 fire.
    Fire Marshal/Safety Officer

    IAAI-NFPA-IAFC/VCOS-Retired IAFF

    "No his mind is not for rent, to any god or government"
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  4. #4
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    Before or after I got over the elation of having a hydrant in front of the house and not half a mile away?

    Can't knock 'em.

    Technique wise, the outside line I would've like to have been more to the left -- kind of concentrating on knocking down the fire by the wall between the house and garage and working away. I would've also moved the line in a bit closer to increase it's effectiveness -- they where well out of the collapse zone, and at this point if something was gonna blow on the cars it would've most likely blown already.

    At 0430 in my towns, I wouldn't have changed a thing.

    I keep debating in my head the 1400 hr call if manpower looks short whether I'd call for a blitz, but for what I see here I keep coming back up with using the first handline to hold the fire extension even if we can't get a 2nd line in operation for 10+ minutes to deal with the garage.

  5. #5
    MembersZone Subscriber fireslayer1237's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dalmatian190 View Post
    I keep debating in my head the 1400 hr call if manpower looks short whether I'd call for a blitz, but for what I see here I keep coming back up with using the first handline to hold the fire extension even if we can't get a 2nd line in operation for 10+ minutes to deal with the garage.
    how would you do this with two on an engine? where would you place the line still keeping the 2 in 2 out. just can't think of a place to do this if possible. maybe i am just being an idiot who knows

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    Forum Member johnny46's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fireslayer1237 View Post
    how would you do this with two on an engine? where would you place the line still keeping the 2 in 2 out. just can't think of a place to do this if possible. maybe i am just being an idiot who knows
    Sometimes 2 in 2 out don't work.

  7. #7
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    Never said 2 on an engine. And it depends on your interpretation of 2in/2out

    Even on an (arguably) minimal 2in/2out, that gives you a nozzle & hook inside, an OIC, and pump operator.

    I just have more warm fuzzies when it's evening and can expect 30+ firefighters on scene in 10 minutes from tones and usually have a four or five firefighters in gear on scene waiting for the Engine to arrive, versus a daytime call we're we've always managed, sometimes barely, to make the bare minimum 2in/2out on the arrival of the first due.

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    I agree with what everyone else has said. I like the placement of the ladder even though you didn't have to use it and I also liked that there was a hydrant right in front of the residence. One thing that I thought of if manpower allowed was to get the deckgun on real quick till you have a water supply hooked up and to pull the 2 1/2 like stated earlier in other replies but other than that looked good to me.

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    Forum Member Bones42's Avatar
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    psouther, wouldn't NOT having a water supply kind of rule out a deck gun usage? I'm thinking 1 big blast of water with marginal effectiveness and then what...
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

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    the only comment I have is the time it took from the units to arrive until their was water on the fire. when the film starts, you have at least 1 engine and 1 truck on scene, and it takes more than 2 minutes (from the time the film starts, not since the engine is on scene) until the first hose in putting water on the fire.

    other than that, maybe a larger line to attack, but the fire did go out, so no arguments there.
    If my basic HazMat training has taught me nothing else, it's that if you see a glowing green monkey running away from something, follow that monkey!

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  11. #11
    Forum Member Bones42's Avatar
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    DrParasite, as the camera is walking to the scene, there are 3 guys getting ready to make entry in the front door with a handline. At ~30 seconds, you see that line getting charged. They made the attack from inside, separating the fire from the rest of the house would be my guess.

    The water you see at ~2mins is the exposure line. You will notice that it does not even hit the actual fire, but the house next door, as it should.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrParasite View Post
    the only comment I have is the time it took from the units to arrive until their was water on the fire. when the film starts, you have at least 1 engine and 1 truck on scene, and it takes more than 2 minutes (from the time the film starts, not since the engine is on scene) until the first hose in putting water on the fire.

    other than that, maybe a larger line to attack, but the fire did go out, so no arguments there.
    Some fires still get fought from the inside.
    Last edited by nyckftbl; 04-11-2007 at 02:31 PM.
    Proud East Coast Traditionalist.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dalmatian190 View Post

    Technique wise, the outside line I would've like to have been more to the left -- kind of concentrating on knocking down the fire by the wall between the house and garage and working away. I would've also moved the line in a bit closer to increase it's effectiveness -- they where well out of the collapse zone, and at this point if something was gonna blow on the cars it would've most likely blown already.
    Would a second line attacking the exposure/area where the garage meets the house benefit them? If manpower allowed it, why not?

    It was difficult to tell how much of the roof/attic were burning but it seemed like a good chunk? I may have suggested a defensive attack rather than sending my guys inside, worrying about collapse and such.... thoughts?

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    Quote Originally Posted by beachffgirl View Post
    to tell how much of the roof/attic were burning but it seemed like a good chunk? I may have suggested a defensive attack rather than sending my guys inside, worrying about collapse and such.... thoughts?

    A deffinite consideration but judging by the video I don't think that fire was up in that attic space too long and there would have been some time to get in there and pull ceilings to make an attack on it.

    I think they did an excellent job, it just seemed a little slow to me from getting water on the fire to the pace at which the guys put their facepieces on in the front yard! Otherwise nice work

  15. #15
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    I thought it was done fairly effectively. I agree it looks like 1 3/4" hand lines and while I like the flexibility of the smaller lines, that does look like a 2 1/2" fire. Deck gun are always wonderful if no one is inside already. We've used them quite effectively for initial attack prior to entry and, of course, for defensive. All in all, Id say they did a good job and should consider the operation a success. Glad to see exposures were covered early. Good job!

  16. #16
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    To all:

    This video was shot in Rockford (IL) a few days ago by Larry Carlson, who does a great job coming and videoing some of our fires. If Larry or his brother Buzzy read these threads, RFD sincerely appreciates his support of our department and the time they spend giving us videos and pictures from various fires for training and critiqueing.

    I was not assigned to this fire, but I can give you a little insight on how we operate.

    Q-5 was the first arriving company and laid our "working line" 1.75" and made entry into the residence. The second line and third lines laid were also 1.75", one for the exposure and finally direct fire attack.

    The inital working line was taken to the attic to help prevent a total loss on the house and to eliminate fire spread. We work from the inside out on almost every job and are pretty competent at what we do. We are still fairly fortunate to have 200+ working fires each year throughout our city of 160,000.

    A comment was made about using a bigger line for direct fire attack "big fire=big water", which is a debatable subject depending on IC for the event. Our big lines are 3" (not 2.5") and do get laid quit often, but it is up to the first-in officer or District Chief to make that decision. We are fortunate to have a good water supply in most of the city and could have pulled a 3" line with a 1 1/4" or 1 1/8" smooth bore, but the IC chose against it in this case.

    Also, for standard rig placement, the first in engine (or occasionally "quint") will pull past the fire and lay the lines. The first truck on scene, will pull in front of the building for ladder or (tool box use). Our standard complement to a house fire is 2 engines, 2 trucks (one of which may be a quint), 1 ambo, and 1 chief bringing 16 working FF's, 2 FF/PM's for medical only on the box, and 1 chief. At this fire, a 3rd engine with a crew of 4 was dispatched for RIT.

    I hope this gives a little more insight and feel free to ask more questions.

    On another note, Quint #5, which was the first rig on scene, came between to cars shooting each other and sustained two shots into the side of the rig. This was the second time this year that our rigs have been shot at, and the 3rd time in five years.

    Stay safe,

    rfd599
    www.IllinoisFireStore.com

  17. #17
    Forum Member Chiefy's Avatar
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    Sound like a very disciplined company and dependable I/C. Great job.
    Be careful out there! And duck! You know if we wanted to be shot at we would have been cops.

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    Chiefy:

    We joked last week before the most recent shooting that we need bulletproof vests, maybe the gear manufacturers and incorporate that into our bunker coats.

    Stay safe,

    rfd599
    www.IllinoisFireStore.com

  19. #19
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    rfd599:

    What's the reasoning on using a 3" hand line instead of a 2 1/2"?

    Just curious...
    "The quality of a person's life is in direct proportion to their commitment to excellence, regardless of their chosen field of endeavor." - Vince Lombardi

  20. #20
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    Capt:

    Our department just switched over to 5" LDH on all companies within the last 5 years. Our previous supply lines were all 3". The "powers to be" did not want to spend any extra funds to purchase 2.5" for interior attack, when we already had a ton of 3". We tried to argue for more manueverability with a 2.5", however, they opted to stay with 3" to be cost efficient and because we can get greater flows.

    The 3" works great for defensive fires and initial exterior knockdown of a heavy volume of fire, but usually our "booster" 1.5" or "working line" 1.75" gets pulled 85%-90% of the time at a residential structure fire.

    It is very rare that the 1.5" or 1.75" lines do not take care of the job. Even though they do not put out the gpm's of a larger diameter line (2" or 2.5"), a well coordinated engine crew can do the job quickly and efficiently compared to an inexperienced crew using a larger handline.

    I am not debating that we would like more line choices (i.e. 2" or 2.5"), but right now due to budget constraints it is not likely to have that opportunity until sometime in the future.

    Stay safe,

    rfd599
    www.IllinoisFireStore.com

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