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  1. #1
    Forum Member WBenner's Avatar
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    Question Operator / Engineer Requirments

    I was to lazy to see if this was brought up before..
    Im looking to see if any one can help with a Program in which they teach firefighters who want to be operators. A program which would includeTruck placement and responding. How do your drivers earn the right to drive?
    We have guys that want to drive but dont know where equipment is located on the rigs or how to operate some of the tools. Where to place a truck 1st in -vs- 2nd due. What a key box is and so on. They just want to drive a big red truck.
    They all need to be Pump operators but even that is lax.
    So if you can help as we are looking at trying to get something going like a 4 Step program. Any one can drive a truck its what your going to do once you get it there.


  2. #2
    MembersZone Subscriber E229Lt's Avatar
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    In a nut shell, nobody should drive a rig until they have mastered everything the men they are driving will do inside (less the officer)

  3. #3
    Forum Member Dave1983's Avatar
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    Default

    We require...

    At least 1 year on the job.
    Full EVOC certification
    State pump certification
    20 hours non-emergency driving (documented and signed off by a CO)
    Written test
    Practical driving test
    Practical pump operations test

    Thats just the basics for an engine. For special units...

    The ladder also requires an aerial certification

    The rescue also requires special training on the air system

    And for our rescue boat, an operators class through the USCG and 5 hours "throttle time".
    Fire Marshal/Safety Officer

    IAAI-NFPA-IAFC/VCOS-Retired IAFF

    "No his mind is not for rent, to any god or government"
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  4. #4
    MembersZone Subscriber mcaldwell's Avatar
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    Default

    Similar,

    We have three internal levels of driving "certification". All new drivers must show a recent abstract to prove no DUI's, reckless/careless charges, etc.

    Level 1. 3hr Basic safety, circle check, must show competency in road test, backing apparatus, hand and horn signals, etc... Authorises user to drive conventional pickups, old wildland units, etc, Non-Emergency.

    Level 2. Addition of the air brakes endorsement and 3 hrs of training on the full size apparatus covering operation, response, placement, etc. Authorizes users to drive all apparatus Non-Emergency (at training nights, service calls, PR events, etc.) New Aerial operators also get additional training during regular ladder practices.

    Level 3. Addition of EVOC ticket allows user to drive any apparatus, any emergency. This level usually takes at least 18-24 months to reach.


    I am also looking to implement an "off-road" training package in the near future.
    Last edited by mcaldwell; 04-14-2007 at 05:11 PM.
    Never argue with an Idiot. They drag you down to their level, and then beat you with experience!

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  5. #5
    Forum Member BuzzCut1's Avatar
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    here you have to have been a firefighter for 3 years, FF2, then take Pump Ops, preventative maintenece, ICS including 100, 200, Comanding the initial response, engine boss, I-zone, evoc, Class B lic, 3-6 months of supervised driving [incluing off road driving]

  6. #6
    MembersZone Subscriber NorcalMike's Avatar
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    In my dept. engineer is a tested for position. Prereqs' for the test are three years on dept. Cal State Fire Marshal Driver/Operator 1A/1B class.

    It is a competative test consisting of a written exam, pumping test, and driving test.
    Mike
    Fire Captain

  7. #7
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    Default Jacksonville, Florida New Proposed Engineer Plan

    Currently all that is required is one year on the job. There is absolutely no training required. We assume that their officer has properly trained them during their probationary period. Clearly there has been some success there, but not always, plus it is not measurable.

    A new proposal requires 2 years and three classes, all taught by our department:

    40-hour pump operations
    40-hour aerial operations
    16-hour rescue operations (ambulance)

    EVOC is taught during initial recruit training, with the exception of ladder tilling. That is part of the aerial ops class. There is no practical evaluation following the class or prior to promotion. While that would be the optimum setup, we often promote 100 engineers over a two-year period. We have 60 front line engines and 1200 people.

    Florida has a state certification for pump operator, comprising 40-hours of classroom hydraulics and 40-hours of pump operations. We opted not to go the state route, since our 40-hour pump ops is 100% our apparatus, our hose and nozzles, and our procedures (same with the rescue and aerial course). The state program is excellent, but we felt we could cover what they need in 40 hours (30% classroom, 70% drills). For example, we have 15 front line water tankers, and the state class provides no training on tanker shuttles.

    We cover classroom hydraulics briefly. We also have a comprehensive "Engineer Manual" for self-study which has been very well received. I would be happy to provide anyone a copy of our manual (e-mail in PDF format) but please contact me direct at cdanley@coj.net. Please be detailed in who is making the request, and the department you represent.

    Lt Cliff Danley
    Engineer Training Coordinator
    Jacksonville Fire/Rescue

  8. #8
    Forum Member ndvfdff33's Avatar
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    Our drivers don't officially have requirements. Most of our drivers all drive truck for a living so switching over too the fire truck isn't that much of a difference driving wise. Some could use some lessons for driving the rigs full lights and sirens but thats not up to me. If you want too drive you need a NS Class 3 license with Airbrakes endorsement
    If someone with multiple personalities threatens to kill himself, is it considered a hostage situation?

    Ryan

  9. #9
    Forum Member WBenner's Avatar
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    Cool It's just a truck ????

    Ok I understand anyone with a EVOC driving a Rescue Truck. But when it comes to Engines, Ladders I think they need to be trained minium of 40hrs which includes a practical exam.

    I started this thread because we all know that driving is not the problem. It's when you get on scene that counts.
    Did they place the apparatus right? Do they know where all the equipment is. I dont care if your a vollie or a career.
    You had better be able to locate all the equipment on the apparatus explain what it is and how to use.
    Can your engineer only run one line and gets confused from there? being a driver operator is way more then just getting the rig there.

    Career guys SHOULD know it like the back of their hand.
    Vollies Should be no different. Two many Volunteer Co just want the truck to get there, then if someone knows how to run they take over Thats how people get hurt or worse yet killed.

    Look at the seat belt issue... It's law but do we follow it?Some of you helped alot and I like the 4 step program.
    Last edited by JAFA62; 04-24-2007 at 09:35 AM.

  10. #10
    Forum Member Bones42's Avatar
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    Default My volunteer department...

    General Requirements for ALL FD vehicle drivers:
    1. Possesses a New Jersey Firefighter Level 1 Certificate.
    2. Serve at least six (6) months as a Senior Member.
    3. Attend and successfully complete the Coaching the Emergency Vehicle Operator (CEVO) Ė Fire class. Proof of a passing test grade is required.
    4. Must have a valid New Jersey Driverís License, with three years of driving experience.
    5. Must satisfy all requirements imposed under New Jersey State law and the municipal insurance provider.


    ē Engines/Pumpers:

    1. Must satisfy all requirements of the General Section.
    2. Attend and pass an approved Pump Operations Class.
    3. Complete ten (10) hours behind the wheel training, with an approved operator for the apparatus.
    4. Successfully complete an Operator skill test.

    ē Aerials/Ladders:

    1. Must satisfy the above criteria for General Operator and Engine Operator.
    2. Successfully complete an Operator skill test.
    3. Complete ten (10) hours behind the wheel training, with an approved operator for the apparatus.


    Annual re-certification:

    All driver/operators for Engines and Ladders must annually re-certify on each apparatus that they are approved as a driver/operator for. Re-certifications to be approved by the Captain or his designee.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

  11. #11
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    Default

    1 Year on the job
    NFPA Driving Course
    10 Hours Practice Driving
    5 Hours Practice Pumping

    Initial Evaluation
    Driving Course
    Pump Ops - Pump from the tank, a hydrant, and draw a draft
    Pump a stand-pipe
    Pass equipment placement test
    Pass a written exam on the driver / operator SOP

    Ladders / Rescue require additional training

    Annual recertification that is the same as the initial evaluation

  12. #12
    Forum Member TFMBob's Avatar
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    Question The "Volunteer Department"

    Quote Originally Posted by JAFA62.
    Career guys SHOULD know it like the back of their hand.
    Vollies Should be no different. Two many Volunteer Co just want the truck to get there, then if someone knows how to run they take over Thats how people get hurt or worse yet killed.
    All of the replys to JFA62 [including the above quote] are wonderful, basic common sense requirements, however as JAFA62 stated; Two many Volunteer Co just want the truck to get there, and this is a VERY common daily senario throught the country. At 14:00 on a Tues. afternoon [when the "trained" operators/drivers are at work], a call for a rural house fire is received. A bare minimum crew shows up to take the Eng., and the last person to arrive at the hall is a "NON-trained" driver who MUST take the BIG tanker to the scene.
    "we learn from history...that we do not learn from history"

  13. #13
    Forum Member FWDbuff's Avatar
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    Why not require all your drivers to obtain National Pro Board Cert for D/O Pumping Apparatus and/or Aerial Apparatus?
    "Loyalty Above all Else. Except Honor."

  14. #14
    Forum Member THEFIRENUT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FWDbuff View Post
    Why not require all your drivers to obtain National Pro Board Cert for D/O Pumping Apparatus and/or Aerial Apparatus?
    Why Pro Board? Does IFSAC not count? I know that this is apples and oranges, but I want fruit salad.
    Just someone trying to help! (And by the way....Thanks for YOUR help!)

    Aggressive does not have to equal stupid.

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  15. #15
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    Default Bumping up.

    I am glad that you brought this up again. I started a post in the Engineer section, "What does it take to bump up in your department"
    I got a few replys, but not as many as you did.

    My comments:

    Just wondering what critetia you use for bumping up to "Operator" or Captain in your department.
    In mine, you need a pulse and have completed your 1st year of probation. The BC's don't care if you have even cracked a book. We have a great Fire Equipment Operator course that we offer, but it isn't required to "Operate". Notice I don't say drive. I feel that there is so much more to Operating than just being the driver.
    (Our course consist of a 80 hr pump opps. class, including field work and a 40 hr aerial class plus pratical and written exams.)
    Any one that has completed their first year can, and is pressured into being the captain or operator at any time. We are not a small department. We have 20 stations, and our main station runs as many as 50 calls a day, split between 2-3 rigs.
    Sometimes I wonder why we even bother to test for the position when a 1 year old is told to get his arse in there and wing it.

    My first experience with this was one morning when I was doing my daily checks on the aerial, and a new kid was doing laps around the engine. I jokingly asked him if he is the operator. His comment was "why yes I am". I was shocked, and asked him how many years he has on with the department, and he proudly stated that he had 1 1/2 years in. I asked him that if I had to put the stick up, what does he plan to flow to me, and he told me that he had no idea, that I would have to tell him. Later he told me that he knows how to do ONE transverse, Maybe two, and he isn't sure about a change over.
    I was so ****ed that I couldn't see straight.

    Doesn't anybody care anymore? Why would some bonehead that hasn't even cracked a book have the balls to put his entire crew in jeopardy?

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