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  1. #101
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    Thanks for the update clark, I've been wondering myself when these would be coming out glad to finally have some news. Good luck to everyone as well again.

  2. #102
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    The word that I've be told is that the test has been thrown out due to failure rate.

  3. #103
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    That is true I just got my letter today so I am sure everyone else should get their's soon. I think it is a bunch of B. S. but hey thatís all right they are just going to make the test easier and the results will be the same. I can't wait to see how they explain this. It should be interesting.

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    I Told Ya So

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    Wow so I just wasted a CRAP load of money flying down there for nothing.

  6. #106
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    It is true........

    A FF I work has a kid who is testing too. He got the letter stating not enough applicants passed the written test, and another test will be given at a different date.

    Although it did not mention it was because of racial makeup, one could speculate. The only issue that would trump this theory is the fire department has nothing to do with the hiring process. The entire thing is handled by the Dept. of Personnel. Last I heard, the relationship between the Dir. of Personnel and CFD was about the same as with Dept. of Public Safety Director. So, I would'nt think CFD had input on this.

    It is hard to believe out of 1,400 some applicants, less than 400 passed this simple test. This is why I feel they should't set limits on how many are on the list. If it's a list of 2,000 so be it. If it's a list of 200...so be it.

    They should also be setting higher standards to who can apply...ie. you must be an EMT and/or have college. AND if they would ever lift the archiac residency rule...you would get a much larger pool of qualified applicants.

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    Yea, I'd like to know if I passed or not. If I was one of 300 or so, then I'd almost of been guaranteed a spot. Those people that did pass, earned it. If anything I say throw away the video part, but keep that math, reading, and the critical thinking or w/e it was called.

    I'm definitely going to be emailing them and complaining. I doubt I will get anything out of it, but I spent a ton of money with airfare, hotel, taxi, and food.

  8. #108
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    The worst part of it is the people like yourself who came in from out of town most likely wont be coming in again and my guess is you are like myself and more qualified than most of the people who took the test it is not right.

  9. #109
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    Exactly. Also I don't want to be judgemental, but I know some of those people don't have the dream of becoming a firefighter. You could tell just by the way some were dressed and acted. Some may have thought it'd be easy and wouldn't have to go to college. Others just needed to test so they could get unemployment checks. It's going to happen when it's a big city like St Louis, which has a lot of poverty. It's going to be the same thing next time they test, and they have to realize it. Why not just take the people that passed? They did their work and deserved it. Or if testing is going to be a problem, then require things like FF1 or FF2 and EMT.

  10. #110
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    This is one of the stupidest things ive heard in along time!!! Why not just process the people who were intelligent enough to pass the test. Yea it was sorta difficult, Myself I didn't struggle and those who passed earned It.... it comes down to the Chicago and FDNY test and someone bit**ed cuz not enough passed is where im gonna let this fly in my own mind. I too spent alot of money traveling to take this test and now its just all thrown away. The city will definitely hear from me as well, However im sure nothing will come of it.
    Is there anything we can do as a group who believed we passed the examination.?

    well later

  11. #111
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    Contact # for St. Louis Personel Department.
    (314)622-4308

    I suggest everyone makes a call and voices an opinion at least because as someone else said the situation in St. Louis and the same thing will happen over and over again... sucks some people were too stupid and everyone else needs to suffer for it. Also guess it just shows the type of people they want working for there city

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    Default what the news said about the test

    http://www.ksdk.com/news/news_articl...storyid=128327

    I think it is a bunch of BS. Give the people who passed a chance. I thought the test went good. There has to be another reason they are not telling.

  13. #113
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    Isn't the test supposed to separate the people that should pass, and those that shouldn't? I'd say it was a good test because it did just that. I doubt there were only a 100 or so that passed where they can't make a list. Even if that was the case, then take those 100 and just run the test in 1 more year instead of 2 or 3.

    I feel bad for the good people of the St Louis FD, like fieldseng, that wants it to be a good place. Unfortunately they want to hire crappy people that don't deserve the job. I'd be mad even if I did already work there. I'm sure they will take a little more time to trust the probies since they know the FD isn't always taking the best. I also feel bad that they have a new officer each day because of that promotion problem.

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    I just wish there was some way to find out how we did on the test, they say there was an extremely high failure rate, well I want to know if I would have passed and how I would have done. I'm sure other departments are going to be using that test in the future or something similar to it so I'm curious on how I did, I feel like I did pretty well on it and thought I was at least good enough to pass it and make the list but if not I'd rather know I didn't so I know how much I have to improve next time I go testing for a department. It really sucks it's come down to this, a lot of wasted time and money but in the end it's just a learning experience that this kind of crap can happen, just wish they gave out the results so I can really learn from it and all...


    Want to say thanks fieldseng, all the info you provided was extremely helpful and just want to say thanks for everything. It's just too bad St. Louis didn't work out in the end.

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    Want to say thanks fieldseng, all the info you provided was extremely helpful and just want to say thanks for everything. It's just too bad St. Louis didn't work out in the end.
    Anytime I can be of service. It's really not a bad place to be...just going thru a rough time right now. I know we are not the only ones having troubles with the hiring process. Chicago is having issues as well as some other larger departments.

    If this happened when I tested, I'd probably say the heck with it too. I gave up 12 years seniority and a probable promotion to come here.

    It will certainly be interesting to hear the Dir. of Personnel's reason behind all of this when he is back in town.

  16. #116
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    Hey fieldseng2 is there any time frame when the new test will be? I know these things can take time. Also do you know FF A. Owens at station 2. He and I are from the same part of MO. I work in work in Northwest AR now as a FF.

  17. #117
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    I think it is a bunch of BS. Give the people who passed a chance. I thought the test went good. There has to be another reason they are not telling.
    The answer is right here....

    http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/new...F?OpenDocument

    They are tired of being sued by FIRE.

    Hey fieldseng2 is there any time frame when the new test will be? I know these things can take time. Also do you know FF A. Owens at station 2. He and I are from the same part of MO. I work in work in Northwest AR now as a FF.
    No idea when the next one will be.


    Mr. Owens is on my shift. My company is in the same district as the 2's. Actually he has been "temporarily permantly" assigned to the Fire Investigation Unit...which runs out of my house. He actually had a pretty busy day yesterday. We also live in the same nieghborhood.

  18. #118
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    Hang on to your hats.............

    http://www.ksdk.com/news/news_articl...storyid=128743

    It's anybody's guess what will happen...even for yu guys.

    It ain't over till it's over..........

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    also note that this job listing has closed, in case somebody missed it in previous posts...lol.

  20. #120
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    Rumor on the street is the entry level program was thrown out because too many failed the reading comprehension and math. Hello?????

    The above article is about promotions. St. Louis Fire Chief Sherman George has just schuduled interviews for next week to promote.
    _____________________________________________

    "Nothing counts 'til you have the badge . . . Nothing!"

    Fire "Captain Bob"

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  21. #121
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    WOWIE ur a genius CAPT Bob, Thanks for telling us what we already knew...

    Still its crazy that a test that does exactly what its designed to do is thrown out on these basis. Anyway guess I find it amusing that the director of public safety writes about the safety of firefighters, the residents, & businesses being at stake well doesn't that have any pull when it comes too hiring the best qualified candidates for the fire private positions. or do they really want joe shmow off the street who cant read or comprehend but got lucky on the second test.

  22. #122
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    Default Hmmmm

    Please don't try to bring fact and logic into the equation.

    If your interested go to www.kmox.com there are numerous interviews that
    are very interesting. You can get all sides to the story.

    You can also check out www.mayorslay.com and read his blog.

    CFD's responses can be found at
    http://stlouis.missouri.org/citygov/fire click on the flashing "new"

    One agency has gotten so PC they don't give a written. Applications aree scanned and around 200 candidates are invited to the agility. Those that pass go onto the oral board. Those that are hired are in the academy before their backgrounds are completed. it's only right you know? More are coming. Pray for the firefighters and citizens.
    _____________________________________________

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  23. #123
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    Capt. Bob....


    It's all tied together...

    1st of all, it is no rumor. The test was thrown out for that exact reason. It boils down to there was a large number of a specific demographic that did not pass. Had they kept the process going, there would most likey be a law suit filed on their behalf. The Dir. of Personnel publicly stated he wanted to avoid that.

    The promotions for Captains have been tied up for almost 5 years for the same reason. A specific demographic is not largely represented on the list. They claim the test was racially biased, even though a federal judge, industrial pyschiatrist who specializes in this field(who is black), and even their own attorney claim the test is fair, impartial, and adequately measures the level of competancy a fire captian on this job should have.

    How is this tied together? How the Mayor, Dir. of Public Safety, the Chief of Department, and the courts follow through with this will have major impact how promotions AND hiring will be handled in the future.

    I was talking about this whole mess to an aquantance of mine today. He happens to be African-American. HE summed this whole mess up pretty clearly and accurately. 30+ years ago there was a certain group of people who were treated VERY differently on this job, and to a very extreme here. Right or wrong how they were handled....restitutions were made (50/50 hiring and promoting). For 30 years many people were hired who barely had a GED education, and barely passed the entry exam over others with more eduaction, and scored much higher than them......

    NOW...here we are TODAY. 50/50 is gone, and the idea is EVERYONE is supposed to be on an even playing field. And here are the factors he stated:

    1) What makes anyone think a poorly educated man who barely passes the entry test, and is GIVEN the job over more qualified people is going to score better than anyone else on a more difficult exam such as a promotional exam?

    2) For 30 years a certain demographic was handed a job and promotion without having to put much effort into it. Now they not only expect the hand out...they demand it....ie. the story give a man a fish he'll eat for a day......teach him how to fish he will eat for the rest of his life!

    3) This job is no longer a blue collar job were all you need is "balls and brawn". You really need a college level education to be proficiant....even at the entry level with all the services we are expected to provide, especially a large dept. like ours.

    4) Where do you draw the line at building a more diverse work force, and hiring/promoting the most qualified person regardless of demographic at the sacrifce of public and firefighter safety?

    I wish this black man was younger than the age cap of 33. I would love to have him work beside me.
    Last edited by fieldseng2; 09-10-2007 at 09:09 AM.

  24. #124
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    I should add some information here, especially to the future FFs who tested with StL, and are affected by this current situation.

    NIETHER the Dir. of Public Safety NOR the Chief of Department have any authority over ANY of the testing. The Dir. of Personnel has SOLE authority over testing for hiring and promotions. He may ask for input, but it is under his entire discretion on what process and what test will be used for these purposes.

    This position is considered by many...one of the most powerful positions in this city...2nd only to the mayor. Some believe he has more authority than the mayor.

    The former Dir. of Personnel even testified in court he manipulated test scores and lists to obtain a more diverse list while he held that postion.

    There are a few people (some even firefighters) argue that the Dir. of Public Safety nor the Mayor CONNOT force the chief to promote, because under the City Charter he his considered "The Appointed Authority" for the fire department. The Charter supposedly states the "The Appointed Authority has the SOLE discretion to promote/hire or NOT promote/hire".

    My question to those folks is....how can a department head have more authority than his/her boss? I don't think so! Even the Mayor has a boss, and answers to somebody. The chief has been given a direct order, and he should follow it to the letter, or suffer the consequences.

    It would be the same concept if my Capt. told me to polish the brass in the firehouse....even if it wasnt the scheduled day to do it, and I refused to do it because it was Friday and not Saturday. He gave me an order, and if I refuse...I am insubordinate and should be diciplined.

    As I said earlier.....what happens here on Friday will have a major impact on thinhs to come. At least for this department.

  25. #125
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    Breaking News in case you havent heard...

    Sam Simon has resigned as Public Safety Director. He has been replaced by charles bryson...

    here is what he had to say...

    http://www.mayorslay.com/news/display.asp?prID=715

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