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  1. #21
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    Well I personally feel the guy who takes the puff...no matter how occasional should not be on the dept...and it looks like the dept does have grounds to give him the boot...I mean 10 times in 5 years, any dept I have ever been on would say thats not enough participation...but again, this is just my opinion


  2. #22
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    Good moral character. If you are breaking the law at home or at the station, it is still breaking the law. Zero Tolerance......

    STILL STANDING!!!!!!!!!!!!

  3. #23
    MembersZone Subscriber dday05's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by orangebuster View Post
    Good moral character. If you are breaking the law at home or at the station, it is still breaking the law. Zero Tolerance......

    STILL STANDING!!!!!!!!!!!!
    The ZERO TOLERANCE says it all. No place for stuff like that involving the fd.

  4. #24
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    How about the wreckage? How about all the fires, MVA's, domestic violence, overdoses, violent crime etc. that has its direct or indirect root cause in alcohol and drugs? That should, slone, be enough to get you to not use.

  5. #25
    Forum Member FWDbuff's Avatar
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    Putting aside logistics, legal issues, costs, etc....

    The only people against random or post-accident drug analysis are the ones with something to hide.
    "Loyalty Above all Else. Except Honor."

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by FWDbuff View Post
    Putting aside logistics, legal issues, costs, etc....

    The only people against random or post-accident drug analysis are the ones with something to hide.
    True. I used to pee on command for Uncle Sam...no problem takin the habit back up.

  7. #27
    Forum Member ndvfdff33's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FireDawgEMT22 View Post
    Well I personally feel the guy who takes the puff...no matter how occasional should not be on the dept...and it looks like the dept does have grounds to give him the boot...I mean 10 times in 5 years, any dept I have ever been on would say thats not enough participation...but again, this is just my opinion
    I whole heartedly agree with you on this Dawg. If it wasn't for the fact at the time he was a main bingo caller,which is one of our primary sources for Money, he probably would have been gone long before. Lack of participation should have gotten em the boot but our old Chief didn't always think things through. As long as you made your bingo crew he was happy which is quite sad. Thankfully he's gone and our new Chief has turned things around.

    I agree on the zero tolerance in the not only the FD but non-FD but my main point I didn't get across in my first post is yes you can say not to do it blah blah blah but if they are dead set in it they are going to do it. And you can't kick someone out just because of a hunch. So if you can afford to do drug tests more power to yah but I know my dept sure as hell can't
    If someone with multiple personalities threatens to kill himself, is it considered a hostage situation?

    Ryan

  8. #28
    Forum Member DeputyMarshal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FWDbuff View Post
    The only people against random ... analysis are the ones with something to hide.
    Or those who believe that the 4th Amendment was penned for a reason.

    Sorry, but I have serious ethical issues with "random" testing absent any reasonable suspicion.

    Pre-employment, post accident, or reasonable suspicion testing, fine. Random sweeps, no. That's just wrong.
    "Nemo Plus Voluptatis Quam Nos Habant"

    The Code is more what you'd call "guidelines" than actual rules.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by ndvfdff33 View Post
    I whole heartedly agree with you on this Dawg. If it wasn't for the fact at the time he was a main bingo caller,which is one of our primary sources for Money, he probably would have been gone long before. Lack of participation should have gotten em the boot but our old Chief didn't always think things through. As long as you made your bingo crew he was happy which is quite sad. Thankfully he's gone and our new Chief has turned things around.

    I agree on the zero tolerance in the not only the FD but non-FD but my main point I didn't get across in my first post is yes you can say not to do it blah blah blah but if they are dead set in it they are going to do it. And you can't kick someone out just because of a hunch. So if you can afford to do drug tests more power to yah but I know my dept sure as hell can't

    It is a sad day when the business aspects of a dept are put ahead of the safety of the community. I am glad to see it has turned around for you guys. I can honestly say I have never been involved with a dept that community service and safety was not #1 priority...

    And you are 120% right that if someone WANTS to do it they will do it, and we cannot boot someone for drugs on the hunch. It is just too bad really, that there are still people out there who feel they have to use this stuff. I actually feel sorry for them, but of course I know how addictions are, Im addicted to fire rescue. lol..

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeputyMarshal View Post
    Or those who believe that the 4th Amendment was penned for a reason.

    Sorry, but I have serious ethical issues with "random" testing absent any reasonable suspicion.

    Pre-employment, post accident, or reasonable suspicion testing, fine. Random sweeps, no. That's just wrong.

    I would agree with you if the state or federal government was making me as a citizen of this country to submitt to random drug testing.

    However as an employee of a company or organization you agree to abide by their rules.
    Co 11
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    Amateurs practice until they get it right; professionals practice until they cannot get it wrong. Which one are you?

    'The fire went out and nobody got hurt' is a poor excuse for a fireground critique.

  11. #31
    Forum Member DeputyMarshal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DocVBFDE14 View Post
    I would agree with you if the state or federal government was making me as a citizen of this country to submitt to random drug testing.

    However as an employee of a company or organization you agree to abide by their rules.
    I don't know about you but I didn't give up my citizenship when I got hired and the "company or organization" I work for is the government.
    "Nemo Plus Voluptatis Quam Nos Habant"

    The Code is more what you'd call "guidelines" than actual rules.

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeputyMarshal View Post
    I don't know about you but I didn't give up my citizenship when I got hired and the "company or organization" I work for is the government.
    But if the rules regarding random drug testing were on the books when you got on, you could have refused the job.

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by FireDawgEMT22 View Post
    but of course I know how addictions are, Im addicted to fire rescue. lol..

    Makes two of us.
    If someone with multiple personalities threatens to kill himself, is it considered a hostage situation?

    Ryan

  14. #34
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    We have it clearly spelled out in our contract how, and when, drug and alcohol screening can be conducted. We do drug/alcohol testing for pre-employment. Probationary FF's can be tested randomly, although I have yet to see it. If a probie is selected for random testing, the test must be conducted within 72hrs of his name being selected. Post accident testing is only done if certain criteria are met to warrant testing. I believe we follow Federal Highway Administration guidelines as far as post accident. Several factors such as, extent of injuries, extent of damage to vehicles/property, fatalities, etc. are used to determine if a test should be conducted.

    As far as locking up my locker and valuables, I have never once done it at my firehouse. I have left cash on the kitchen counter from the guys for meals for three days because I forgot to pick it up, and it has been there when I returned to work.

  15. #35
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    We don't conduct random drug testing.

    However, all new applicants must take a drug test, Criminal background test which includes Arson. The applicant also must take a physical.
    Fortune does not change men; it unmasks them.

    The grass ain't greener, the wine ain't sweeter!! Either side of the hill.


    IACOJ PROUD

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoughRider View Post
    We don't conduct random drug testing.

    However, all new applicants must take a drug test, Criminal background test which includes Arson. The applicant also must take a physical.
    The way things are these days I'd say it's worth it cya..

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