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  1. #1
    Forum Member RAMFIRE42's Avatar
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    Default Volunteer Drug Testing

    Does anyone do random drug testing of volunteer firefighters? I am thinking of adding this to our bylaws. I'm not sure of the frequency of the testing we would do, or how I would write the S.O.P. but I think it would be a good cover your ***** policy What are your thoughts?


  2. #2
    Forum Member DeputyMarshal's Avatar
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    Don't do it until you've talked to legal council and shopped around for costs of testing. You need an outside agency to make the "random" selection and another seperate agency to do the testing. It isn't cheap.
    "Nemo Plus Voluptatis Quam Nos Habant"

    The Code is more what you'd call "guidelines" than actual rules.

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    Forum Member ndvfdff33's Avatar
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    Never have done this, nor will they probably start doing it. As long as someone isn't on stuff when they respond, what they do behind the closed doors of their home is up too them
    If someone with multiple personalities threatens to kill himself, is it considered a hostage situation?

    Ryan

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    I have to disagree on one aspect of this. The drugs. Alcohol absolutely, if they have not been drinking when they respond thats great, if they want to do it on their own and not respond ok no problem...However, the drugs I have to say someone should not be using them at all. Anyone who use illegal or controlled substances for recreational purposes does not belong on a fire dept or EMS service. They belong somewhere to get off the stuff.

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    MembersZone Subscriber JohnVBFD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ndvfdff33 View Post
    Never have done this, nor will they probably start doing it. As long as someone isn't on stuff when they respond, what they do behind the closed doors of their home is up too them
    Are you insane?? Long term drug does permanent damage to the brain and body. So just because they have not taken the crap before the call does not mean it will not affect them during the call. Oh and gee, I know all the firehouses I've been assigned to I've always felt comfortable leaving my locker unlocked. You really think that druggie will say "Wait, he's a firefighter like me, I won't steal from him to fuel my habit."
    Co 11
    Virginia Beach FD

    Amateurs practice until they get it right; professionals practice until they cannot get it wrong. Which one are you?

    'The fire went out and nobody got hurt' is a poor excuse for a fireground critique.

  6. #6
    Forum Member backsteprescue123's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FireDawgEMT22 View Post
    I have to disagree on one aspect of this. The drugs. Alcohol absolutely, if they have not been drinking when they respond thats great, if they want to do it on their own and not respond ok no problem...However, the drugs I have to say someone should not be using them at all. Anyone who use illegal or controlled substances for recreational purposes does not belong on a fire dept or EMS service. They belong somewhere to get off the stuff.
    I agree Gump...
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  7. #7
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    A statement without precedent: I agree with Deputy Marshall.

    Random drug testing is not cheap or easy. You need a qualified Medical Review Officer ( licensed physician). You under no circumstances should try to administer any portion of the procedure yourselves, whether it be collecting specimens or making the random selection. A pre-employment screening can be given to all employees, probably including volunteers, but in-service testing must be either truly random or triggered by probable cause.

    Talk to a lawyer. If your department cannot afford to do so, it cannot afford a proper drug testing regime.

    If you are not REALLY, REALLY careful, your "cover our *****" brainstorm will end up biting you in the *****.

  8. #8
    Forum Member Bones42's Avatar
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    I believe my town does it now with PD and Public Works employees, but since I am neither, I can't say for sure.

    If so, it would not be a big deal to add us to their list.

    You may want to check with your local government and see if they do something similar and you can "piggy back" on that.

    PS - Alcohol is a drug.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bones42 View Post
    PS - Alcohol is a drug.
    True but it is legal and someone cannot be penalized for using it on their own time, and not responding while inebriated

  10. #10
    Forum Member Bones42's Avatar
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    Yes, and unless they were drinking it recently before the random testing, would not show up anyway.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

  11. #11
    Forum Member OlieCan's Avatar
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    I work for a company that does drug testing, send me a private message if you'd like to knw more.
    Get busy livin, or get busy dyin. - Shawshank Redemption
    IACOJ

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bones42 View Post
    Yes, and unless they were drinking it recently before the random testing, would not show up anyway.

    I worked for a company that could call you in while you were home to be tested if your name was picked in the random list...however, if you told them you had been drinking and could not drive, they couldnt and wouldnt hold anything against you.

  13. #13
    Forum Member ndvfdff33's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DocVBFDE14 View Post
    Are you insane?? Long term drug does permanent damage to the brain and body. So just because they have not taken the crap before the call does not mean it will not affect them during the call. Oh and gee, I know all the firehouses I've been assigned to I've always felt comfortable leaving my locker unlocked. You really think that druggie will say "Wait, he's a firefighter like me, I won't steal from him to fuel my habit."
    I never said we have a problem with Drug users. I know the guys and gals on my dept better than that. And I'm not saying if they are going on hardcore benders, getting all baked up and trippin out all the time is good. I'm saying if someone has an occasional puff, which plenty of poeple do, and they are not responding it's up to them. I know the people on my dept enough to say they have sense enough not to respond if they have drank or had a little puff at a party or at home.

    Lastly you have balls leaving something someone could steal i.e. money or other valuables in your locker anyways. I always leave my wallet,cell phone,watch etc. in the car which is locked. The most I'll leave and I've ever seen anyone leave in our hall was their pager.
    If someone with multiple personalities threatens to kill himself, is it considered a hostage situation?

    Ryan

  14. #14
    MembersZone Subscriber JohnVBFD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ndvfdff33 View Post
    I never said we have a problem with Drug users. I know the guys and gals on my dept better than that. And I'm not saying if they are going on hardcore benders, getting all baked up and trippin out all the time is good. I'm saying if someone has an occasional puff, which plenty of poeple do, and they are not responding it's up to them. I know the people on my dept enough to say they have sense enough not to respond if they have drank or had a little puff at a party or at home.

    Lastly you have balls leaving something someone could steal i.e. money or other valuables in your locker anyways. I always leave my wallet,cell phone,watch etc. in the car which is locked. The most I'll leave and I've ever seen anyone leave in our hall was their pager.

    Alittle puff is ok?? You must be hanging out with TrojanHorse/Cdove (or however he spelled it)/HotTrotter a lot. Doing drugs is ok? Wow.

    Balls? No. It is called BROTHERHOOD. I trust my valuables inside the secure firehouse with my Brothers more than I do in the parking lot while I am on calls. The only thing I don't trust my Brothers with is an open pack of Oreo cookies.

    Wow, doing drugs is ok. I'm still speechless
    Co 11
    Virginia Beach FD

    Amateurs practice until they get it right; professionals practice until they cannot get it wrong. Which one are you?

    'The fire went out and nobody got hurt' is a poor excuse for a fireground critique.

  15. #15
    MembersZone Subscriber hydrotech's Avatar
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    well i guess if suspicion is the only issue at hand then you can buy one of those at home drug tests and handle it yourself. they're rather inexpensive but will not hold up in court.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DocVBFDE14 View Post
    Wow, doing drugs is ok. I'm still speechless

    I'm so speechless that all I can say is

    WHAAAAAAT?

  17. #17
    MembersZone Subscriber JohnVBFD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FireDawgEMT22 View Post
    I'm so speechless that all I can say is

    WHAAAAAAT?
    We have always been, and always will be, our own worst emeny.

    I still can't believe a firefighter got on a web site that can be viewed internationally and proclaimed that smoking an illegal narcotic was ok.
    Co 11
    Virginia Beach FD

    Amateurs practice until they get it right; professionals practice until they cannot get it wrong. Which one are you?

    'The fire went out and nobody got hurt' is a poor excuse for a fireground critique.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DocVBFDE14 View Post
    We have always been, and always will be, our own worst emeny.

    I still can't believe a firefighter got on a web site that can be viewed internationally and proclaimed that smoking an illegal narcotic was ok.

    Now please forgive me, because I am not "hip to the scene" when it comes to drugs...but I don't know of any narcotics that can be smoked...LOL...just bustin balls...but in all seriousness, I know...I dont understand how anyone in this profession can advocate any illegal drug use at all. I have been 100% illegal drug free for my whole life, almost 28 years. ( I say illegal because I do use tobacco and OTC medicines from time to time, and someone would throw that wrench in had I just said drug free)

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    Quote Originally Posted by ndvfdff33 View Post
    Lastly you have balls leaving something someone could steal i.e. money or other valuables in your locker anyways. I always leave my wallet,cell phone,watch etc. in the car which is locked. The most I'll leave and I've ever seen anyone leave in our hall was their pager.
    I have not locked my locker in my 22 years on the FD. I know a few guys who have had lots of cash in their lockers on occasion and have never had a problem. The only incident I know of is several years ago when a visitor went into the locker room escorted and a few lockers had items stolen. Unfortunately, we could not prove anything.

    I trust my fellow firefighters with my life, I can at least trust them not to steal from my locker.

    Now, leaving food in the refrigerator is another story...
    Last edited by KenNFD1219; 04-24-2007 at 10:23 PM.
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    "The most mediocre man or woman can suddenly seem dynamic, forceful, and decisive if he or she is mean enough." from "Crazy Bosses"
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  20. #20
    Forum Member ndvfdff33's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DocVBFDE14 View Post
    Alittle puff is ok?? You must be hanging out with TrojanHorse/Cdove (or however he spelled it)/HotTrotter a lot. Doing drugs is ok? Wow.

    Balls? No. It is called BROTHERHOOD. I trust my valuables inside the secure firehouse with my Brothers more than I do in the parking lot while I am on calls. The only thing I don't trust my Brothers with is an open pack of Oreo cookies.

    Wow, doing drugs is ok. I'm still speechless
    No I do not hang out with TrojanHorse or the others. Your making me sound like I support drugs all the way and that I'm right into them, people on my dept are into them etc. Well your wrong. I've only ever known one guy on our dept thats had an occasional and I mean VERY Occasional puff and he showed up maybe 10 times in my 5 years and never made a truck. 90% of our members, at least out of the group that shows up, is military and if you know anything about the military you'd know that drugs are infact a huge NO NO.


    I bit the big one when I made that first post and definately worded what I wanted to say completely opposite. When I said that if someone is going to do something they have sense enough not to come I did mean that.What I SHOULD have said on the end was no matter what if they really want to do it they are going to no matter what.

    Any dept I know of isn't going to and some probably can't even afford to pay out what it costs to get drug testing done. Theres a lot to it. So My first sentance is true for my dept in that they have Never done it and Never will.


    Lastly I agree 100% you should not have to worry about leaving stuff in your locker. My reason for leaving stuff in my car is that I've been at calls on occasion when we roll out and come back with nobody at the hall and the bay doors open. So whos to say Joe Blow walking up the road isn't gonna walk in a bay door or an open hall door and decide to swipe somethin he likes.


    So I'm sorry for seeming like I support drug use because I'm completely against it. Sometimes I type a little fast for my own good. I can't help it I get excited.
    Last edited by ndvfdff33; 04-24-2007 at 10:28 PM.
    If someone with multiple personalities threatens to kill himself, is it considered a hostage situation?

    Ryan

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