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    Post Are Jrs Firefighter ?

    I run with a small rural vol dept we run a jr program. We consider are jrs as and equal part of are team. I have been following the story of the jr that was killed responding to a alarm in the western part of this state. I feel that if he was willing to gave his time to train and help out in any way he is a Firefighter not just a jr. How do other feel?

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    Do a search- there have been 38740357834592454279476804723 million threads on this- one of them is in bold right now.

    (Dave, i think its time to break out the picture )

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    Quote Originally Posted by tfcchief303 View Post
    I run with a small rural vol dept we run a jr program. We consider are jrs as and equal part of are team. I have been following the story of the jr that was killed responding to a alarm in the western part of this state. I feel that if he was willing to gave his time to train and help out in any way he is a Firefighter not just a jr. How do other feel?
    I guess you could ask the same question about the probie with no training.

    On a more serious note, you need to spend a little more time working on your english compostion skills.

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    To end this thread quickly...

    First of Chris Kangas (spelling?) was not a firefighter at all. He was on his way to a station and got killed. It sucks, and its tragic, but hes not a firefighter. The Chief even said he was not a firefighter, he just helped clean up around the station sometimes.

    Helping out around the station does not make you a firefighter. Going to class, learning what you need to know, training hard, and knowing/doing the job does. washing hose and mopping floors doesn't make him a firefighter.

    I wouldn't expect myself to be on the LODD wall if I died, and I have much more exp. than him. I am a paid member of my department, Im a probie, I go on calls, I work shifts, I get IVs ready, connect hose, tag hydrants... yadda yadda... EMS and fire. Im am still not a firefighter til I finish my FireFighter II class at least.



    Also... I know I'm not a perfect speller, but for reference...

    Our - is posessive, like.... That is OUR engine.
    Are - is not. .... Are you going to the station?

    Just FYI
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    Quote Originally Posted by tfcchief303 View Post
    I run with a small rural vol dept we run a jr program. We consider are jrs as and equal part of are team. I have been following the story of the jr that was killed responding to a alarm in the western part of this state. I feel that if he was willing to gave his time to train and help out in any way he is a Firefighter not just a jr. How do other feel?
    Your Dept. may be interested in signing up here:

    http://nvfc.org/juniors/

    I assume you're from PA (even though Brookhaven is eastern PA) -- make sure your dept. understands the PA Child Labor Law:

    http://www.pafirefighter.net/Article...dLaborlaws.asp

    To OlieCan -- the Commonwealth of PA and Brookhaven said he was a firefighter...Just a reminder -- every state has different rules and different ways of interpreting those rules. Therein lies most of the problems with this case -- there was (up until last year's NVFC organizing of the a group) no Junior FF or Explorer National organization, it's basically a free for all.
    Last edited by DianeC; 04-24-2007 at 04:33 PM. Reason: fix typo
    "When I was young, my ambition was to be one of the people who made a difference in this world. My hope is to leave the world a little better for my having been there."
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    Quote Originally Posted by tfcchief303 View Post
    I run with a small rural vol dept we run a jr program. We consider are jrs as and equal part of are team. I have been following the story of the jr that was killed responding to a alarm in the western part of this state. I feel that if he was willing to gave his time to train and help out in any way he is a Firefighter not just a jr. How do other feel?

    jrs are not an equal part of the team

    my dog is a good dog, he sometimes responds to the station in the back of my truck while I go on an alarm

    he likes going to the fire station. people are nice to him, pet him, and feed him.

    my dog probably thinks he is a firefighter.

    HE IS NOT A FIREFIGHTER

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    I have to disagree with your statement that you are not a firefighter until you finish you FFII class. I have been doing Fire Rescue for 10 years, 1 year as a explorer and then the last 9 as a firefighter. I was originally certified in SC for interior attack, I now live in Ohio and only have my 36 hour Vol card, I am going to be finishing my FFI class in about 2 weeks, does this mean I cannot say I am a firefighter because I dont have FFII??

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    Default FF or not

    OK so what about the Forest rangers ??? they are wildland certified and those in FL have FF I cert .. are we not fire fighters ? Many rangers and smoke jumpers have died in the line of Duty and I am sorry but IMO every one of them is a fire fighter I have been involved in the fire service since I was 13 .. I went to fires , I did everything including put out brush fires .. when they needed the extra hands and some times I was just a gopher. I admit I did not consider myself an official FF then .. but though I have been out of the service for 6 years I am still a fire fighter .. I am now back in a Vollie Dept and am working on my recerts. I may be rusty but I still consider myself a fire fighter.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FireDawgEMT22 View Post
    I have to disagree with your statement that you are not a firefighter until you finish you FFII class. I have been doing Fire Rescue for 10 years, 1 year as a explorer and then the last 9 as a firefighter. I was originally certified in SC for interior attack, I now live in Ohio and only have my 36 hour Vol card, I am going to be finishing my FFI class in about 2 weeks, does this mean I cannot say I am a firefighter because I dont have FFII??

    Yeah, in my dept., FF II was optional if you wanted to make your way to chief.

    Also, if firefighters are "interior" and need all those certifications -- what are fire police?
    "When I was young, my ambition was to be one of the people who made a difference in this world. My hope is to leave the world a little better for my having been there."
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    I had never heard of Fire Police until I read a post on here. In SC the minimum training most depts required was 3 classes which resulted in about 96 hours of training, and once you finished these three classes you were certifed interior attack.

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    How about full members of the fire department that do EMS only or wildland only? On my 50 member department only about 12 are interior qualified for structure.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Firetacoma1 View Post
    How about full members of the fire department that do EMS only or wildland only? On my 50 member department only about 12 are interior qualified for structure.
    Please don't take offense to this, but ARE YOU KIDDING ME!?!?!

    How can you have 50 people and have only 12 certified for interior ops and still function? What happens when some of the guys are out of town, or just don't show up, etc? Wow, that's amazing.
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    Quote Originally Posted by RFRDxplorer View Post
    Please don't take offense to this, but ARE YOU KIDDING ME!?!?!

    How can you have 50 people and have only 12 certified for interior ops and still function? What happens when some of the guys are out of town, or just don't show up, etc? Wow, that's amazing.
    We run about 120 calls a year, the majority are medical, wildland, and rescue. I've been on the department for 7 years and have run 2 structure fires both of which were venting through the roof upon arrival. We have auto-aid with a paid department and good mutual aid agreements should we need it. I took over as training officer this year and one of my big pushes is to get people to go through the academy, unfortunately since structure fires happen so rarely, it's not a priority to most. The wildfire academy is a week, the structure academy is 16... I wish we could require structure, but I've gotten push-back from the Chief who fears we'll lose members.

    BTW: We're a lot better off than a majority of the departments in our part of the county. Some don't have any state certed firefighters.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Firetacoma1 View Post
    How about full members of the fire department that do EMS only or wildland only? On my 50 member department only about 12 are interior qualified for structure.
    Sounds like my old dept. Minus we don't have guys only qualified EMS or Wildland. We have very few guys actually qualfied. Having said that though we do have a lot of guys that although don't have the schooling I would be very confident in them being in a fire with me.



    And DianeC don't feel bad I don't even think my old chief took level I. Goes to show how far back in the dark ages they are.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firetacoma1 View Post
    We run about 120 calls a year, the majority are medical, wildland, and rescue. I've been on the department for 7 years and have run 2 structure fires both of which were venting through the roof upon arrival. We have auto-aid with a paid department and good mutual aid agreements should we need it. I took over as training officer this year and one of my big pushes is to get people to go through the academy, unfortunately since structure fires happen so rarely, it's not a priority to most. The wildfire academy is a week, the structure academy is 16... I wish we could require structure, but I've gotten push-back from the Chief who fears we'll lose members.

    BTW: We're a lot better off than a majority of the departments in our part of the county. Some don't have any state certed firefighters.
    Wow. Well good luck and keep up the good work!
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    Yes, juniors are firefighters.

    Yes, they are an equal part of the team. They are no less important than the senior men making the interior attack, the support person pumping the 2nd due engine or the veteren firefighters who no longer feel spry enough to work interior filling tankers 2 miles away.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Yes, juniors are firefighters.

    Yes, they are an equal part of the team. They are no less important than the senior men making the interior attack, the support person pumping the 2nd due engine or the veteren firefighters who no longer feel spry enough to work interior filling tankers 2 miles away.


    I am hoping you are just getting confused with the term junior...or maybe I am...but I dont think we are talking about junior firefighters as firefighters still on probation, or junior in the service...but junior as in under 18, akin to an explorer program and such...

    And If I am correct in the term we are using, I again hope you are just mistaking the term to mean the former and not the latter.

    I dont know of any place that would let children be firefighters

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    Quote Originally Posted by jacklrd View Post
    Do a search- there have been 38740357834592454279476804723 million threads on this- one of them is in bold right now.

    (Dave, i think its time to break out the picture )
    Don't worry Dave, I've got this one...

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    Last edited by Alex1137; 04-24-2007 at 11:08 PM.

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    Default Point to Remember

    Bear this in mind: During the two largest armed conflicts in American History, the US Civil War and World War II.........

    The US military did not draft or KNOWINGLY accept the application of individuals under the age of 18. Not saying some did not lie or some were signed into service by their parents.

    Don't you find it odd that in two of our countries GREATEST moments in time, we did not turn to children to do the work of adults?
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    Default If it doesn't quack then it isn't a duck

    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Yes, juniors are firefighters.

    Yes, they are an equal part of the team. They are no less important than the senior men making the interior attack, the support person pumping the 2nd due engine or the veteren firefighters who no longer feel spry enough to work interior filling tankers 2 miles away.
    Do you really believe this? Please tell me that you are just spouting off to get gulliable thread readers like me upset.

    They are not firefighters. Juniors are not firefighters, rookies are not firefighters, probationers are not firefighters, explorers are not firefighters, retired firefighters are not firefighters, the salvation army guy is not a firefighter, the auxilliary members are not firefighters, the guy ****ing on a campfire is not a firefighter, and my dog is not a firefighter.

    Why do I get sucked into this????

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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Yes, juniors are firefighters.

    Yes, they are an equal part of the team. They are no less important than the senior men making the interior attack, the support person pumping the 2nd due engine or the veteren firefighters who no longer feel spry enough to work interior filling tankers 2 miles away.
    NO THEY ARE NOT.

    Come on LA do you just search the forums now to post comments you know you will pounded over?

    A junior, or cadet or explorer is NOT and CANNOT be an equal part of the team. They are children training and learning to be firefighters when they reach the age of maturity. I simply do not understand any fire department placing CHILDREN in the kind of danger some advocate here.

    My volly FD has a cadet program and it was agreed upon by the FD, the Village board, the insurance company and the Village attorney that it is not approrpiate for CHILDREN to be operating in the hot zone of an incident. We have gone so far as to mandate that cadets may respond to the station and help with clean up or they may be transported to the scene non-emergency for auxliary duties outside the hot zone. We are not even giving our cadets pagers fir there is no need for them to respond emergency, EVER.

    What the fire service needs is another black eye over the death of CHILDREN fighting fire...come on people open your eyes.

    FyredUp

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    For all those that say that he is not a fire fighter... I have a question for you. When you go into a fire who is pumping the engine? who is IC who is incharge of staging, who is filling air bottles , who is making sure the crew has drinking water , who is directing traffic, who is safety officer , who is getting needed tools for you ? are you saying you are the only one who responds and does all the work ? I dont think so Fire Fighting is a team effort without 1 the others are made extremly hard if not impossible. So before you say "this person isn't a fire fighter because all he does is clean hose and fill air bottles rethink on what it takes to successfully fight a fire. Its not 1 person or 2 people its a TEAM of people with 1 common goal. and thats what makes them a fire fighter.
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    OK...so if a Fire Explorer/Junior is a Firefighter, does that mean a Police Explorer is a police officer???

    According to some lines of logic presented here, I guess so.

    Even better, the NJROTC and Naval Sea Cadets may now rejoice, as they're now full-fledged "Sailors".
    AFJROTC and Civil Air Patrol Cadets may now lay claim to "Airman"...
    And best of all, MCJROTC and Young Marines are officially "Leathernecks, Devil Dogs, and above all, Marines."

    Yeah...right.

    Those of you who say an Explorer is a FF, can you please pass some of what you're smoking, cause that's obviously some gooooooooood $h!t.
    My opinions might coincide with someone of importance's POV... I wouldn't know, since I never bothered to ask. My policy is: "Don't ask, don't care."

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    Quote Originally Posted by phillipmc View Post
    For all those that say that he is not a fire fighter... I have a question for you. When you go into a fire who is pumping the engine? who is IC who is incharge of staging, who is filling air bottles , who is making sure the crew has drinking water , who is directing traffic, who is safety officer , who is getting needed tools for you ? are you saying you are the only one who responds and does all the work ? I dont think so Fire Fighting is a team effort without 1 the others are made extremly hard if not impossible. So before you say "this person isn't a fire fighter because all he does is clean hose and fill air bottles rethink on what it takes to successfully fight a fire. Its not 1 person or 2 people its a TEAM of people with 1 common goal. and thats what makes them a fire fighter.

    Yes a team of FIREFIGHTERS, not a team of kids. Jr Firefighters cannot respond to emergencies, cannot become certified as firefighters or EMT's, they are children, they are not firefighters. They are learning a career that most want to follow when they become adults. The explorer program is a great program, I got my start in it and fell in love with the fire service, BUT I WAS NOT A FIREFIGHTER. Junior FF's, and Explorers and the such are not FF's period. They help out doing things that need to be done. They are a GREAT ASSET to every organization. They do many things for us, but they are not firefighters.

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    Quote Originally Posted by phillipmc View Post
    For all those that say that he is not a fire fighter... I have a question for you. When you go into a fire who is pumping the engine? who is IC who is incharge of staging, who is filling air bottles ,
    Fully trained and qualified firefighters.

    Quote Originally Posted by phillipmc View Post
    who is making sure the crew has drinking water , who is directing traffic,
    Fire Support personnel.

    Quote Originally Posted by phillipmc View Post
    who is safety officer , who is getting needed tools for you ?
    Fully trained and qualified firefighters.

    Quote Originally Posted by phillipmc View Post
    I dont think so Fire Fighting is a team effort without 1 the others are made extremly hard if not impossible. So before you say "this person isn't a fire fighter because all he does is clean hose and fill air bottles rethink on what it takes to successfully fight a fire. Its not 1 person or 2 people its a TEAM of people with 1 common goal. and thats what makes them a fire fighter.
    Thank you for belittleing the role of a firefighter. My mother gets us drinking water. Your a fool to consider her a firefighter.

    what are fire police?
    Members of a fire department that serve as Fire Police, not serve as firefighters.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

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