1. #1
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    Default Single Axle Tanker

    What is the largest volume of water available on a single axle tanker truck with double low body side compartments? 2000 US gallons seems to be the max - am I right?

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    The older tankers were a max of 2100 gallons. I think today the max is 1800 gallons.

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    I have seen 2500gal on a single axle. It depends on how big of a pump you want.

    Check this one out, http://www.csiea.com/
    Go to "custom vehicles" then scroll down to Edenville Fire Dept Tanker

    Also I believe Southern Fire makes vaccume tankers on a single rear axle with 2500gal.

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    Thumbs up Axle

    Always remember what you state and Federal D.O.T laws are for axle weights.A 31,000 lb rear and suspension may be able to hold the water but if you have a accident, you better be able to prove during a D.O.t. investigation that your axle, brakes, and tires match the weight rating of the water you are hauling.The state of Connecticut and Rhode Island have the toughest laws of any states I have sold trucks in. Remember a fire truck registered or unregistered, no matter what the state requires, once it is in a accident, its a truck that has to comply with the above three main factors.

    Single axle 1850 gallons ellipitcal with a 500 GPM pump pump small pump house, and long whell base make weights, 1500 with a custom pumper with low sides, 2000 with no pump does not make it. Axle laws are made for everyones safety, even in the fire industry.2100 gallons on a tandem can be short and turn better than 2000 anyway.

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    We have a 2000 gallon tanker on a single rear axle with a 500 GPM pump. It's a Freightliner M2 chassis, two door cab.

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    I would be hesitant to go much beyond 2000 gallons, but you may be able to exceed that a bit if you don't do a pump.

    If you have one builder out of four or so that greatly exceeds the water carried by the others given a specific set of axles, suspensions, etc. - I'd start asking why.
    "Share your knowledge - it's a way to achieve immortality." - Stolen from Chase Sargent's Buddy to Boss program

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    In my volunteer county, we run three single-axle 1800 gallon ellipticals. Two are 1990 model commerical cabs, the other is a 1995 Spartan-cab vehicle. No problems with handling, braking, or acceleration. These are stainless tanks.

    Goochland County, VA runs six 2003 (2004 maybe?) International/S&S 2100 gallon ellipticals on single rear axles. They were able to do this amount of water based on the weight savings that the poly tanks provided. They've got low-side compartments and standard mid-ship pump compartments.

    Just a little idea of what's out there...

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    I believe the biggest limiting factor is your bridge weight limits. The tankers that I have seen have the rear axle moved far toward the rear of the truck. This puts more of the weight on the front axle. With a 31k rear and a 21k front you should be fine. But yes that is a lot of weight.

    But, if you need more than 2000gal and whats in your pumper, then your not going to save it anyway.

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    IMO, Bridge weights and braking are a good reason to limit a single rear axle tanker to 1500 gallons. especially if you are looking pumper tanker.

    We have a E-One piumper tanker on a freightshaker FL80 single rear chassis. It's 1500 gallon, 1250 mid ship pump with top mount controls, 150 ft/200 ft 1-3/4 hose in the crosslays, 1200 feet supply hose, 2000 gallon portable pond, etc. Pretty well equipped and it weights 38,000 lbs with water and driver (I've run all of our trucks across the scales. That's probably close to the practicle upper limit on a single axle. Sure, you can haul more on a single screw, but why?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ledebuhr1 View Post
    But, if you need more than 2000gal and whats in your pumper, then your not going to save it anyway.
    So pretty much a couple 1.5" for 10min and go home? Oprah won't even be over. If that won't do it might as will not even bother to respond. Forget about fireflow ratings, tanker shuttle, CAFS, LDH lay, etc.

    You need to show up with 4000gal (20min @200gpm) just to get a 8B rating.

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    We have a 2250 vacuum tanker of recent vintage with a 500 gpm PTO pump on a single axle commercial chassis.
    ullrichk
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    neiowa,

    We have 4000gal between our two pumpers and tanker. If we need more than that it is irrreavlant as its a total loss. We have 92% residential buildings in our district. We have had tanker shuttles, but it was almost just for pratice. As it was a total loss.

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    I was going to start a new thread, but since we're already talking tankers, thought I would just ask here.
    Looking at tankers right now - 2/3 man std. commerical cab & chassis with either a single axle or tandem. Looking in the 2000-3500 gal range. Pump max 1250 gpm or a 1000 gpm Q-pak mid-ship or possibly stick with a 500 gpm. For anyone purchasing recently, what manufacturer/chassis, basic specs, cost, and anything standout as real pros or cons with any particular manufacturer? Thanks

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    I recently delivered this 2,000 gallon tanker in Southeast Virginia.



    Jeff H.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kfactor View Post
    Looking at tankers right now - 2/3 man std. commercial cab & chassis with either a single axle or tandem. Looking in the 2000-3500 gal range. Pump max 1250 gpm or a 1000 gpm Q-pak mid-ship or possibly stick with a 500 gpm.
    You don't know enough about what you want to evaluate cost.

    What do you want - a pumper or a tanker or both? Decide that and then you will know what size pump to spec.

    How much water do you want to haul? Use a realistic number and think of your local roads and fill sites. For some a 1,000 gallon tanker is all that's able to negotiate their locale. For some 3,000 gallons is essential and their roads allow them sufficient room to carry it safely. What is the magic number for you and your dept?

    Now that you know what you want, contact the various manufacturers and ask them for proposals. Not bids, proposals. They will give you tons of specs showing the various alternatives available to you to carry your pump and your water. Then you can start looking at actual trucks and writing your own specs.

    Good luck.
    Remember, it IS as bad as you think and they ARE out to get you!

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    Quote Originally Posted by kfactor View Post
    I was going to start a new thread, but since we're already talking tankers, thought I would just ask here.
    Looking at tankers right now - 2/3 man std. commerical cab & chassis with either a single axle or tandem. Looking in the 2000-3500 gal range. Pump max 1250 gpm or a 1000 gpm Q-pak mid-ship or possibly stick with a 500 gpm. For anyone purchasing recently, what manufacturer/chassis, basic specs, cost, and anything standout as real pros or cons with any particular manufacturer? Thanks
    I'm not sure what you're looking at spending, but we just got ours delivered about 6 months ago. Kenworth chassis (which is going to be up in price with the new emissions standards) with a 330 Cummins. Rosenbauer built the body (I know you'll hear things both ways, but for us it's working out nice and they were very good to work with through 7 change-orders). It's got a full pumper body and a 1,750 Waterous with a 2,500 gallon tank. It ended up costing us just over $190K.

    If you want a visual, pictures are posted here.

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    Wink Another Rosenbauer

    Like Catch22, we just put in service a Rosenbauer Pumper/Tanker on a Kenworth T300 chasis with the 330 Cummins motor, 2500 gallon tank and a 1250 gpm pump.

    Not sure how, but appears Catch22 got a little better deal than I did, we have right at $225 k in our truck.

    Its the first tandom axel truck we have so it has been a learning experience. We did go with side dumps right behind the pump panel at the front of the tank that have worked great in training.

    So far, we have only had one mutual aid working structure fire and they were not able to setup a dump tank to the side of their engine so we they ended up setting up a nurse tanker (2000 gallons, 1000 gpm pump) and we came in and pumped off to the nurse tanker. 2 of the tankers that responded were parked because they only had 250 gpm pumps. Made us very happy to have a 1250 gpm pump on our tanker.

    So far we love our new tanker, the 330 Cummins has plenty of power and sounds awesome.

    We are currently looking at building a 2nd tanker on a used Freightliner ML80 single axel chasis. It will an aluminum flatbed with a 2000 gallon poly tank, rear dump with an 90 elbow and a 250 gpm pump. It will be used as a grass fire tanker and only for dump operations.
    Last edited by mitchkrat; 05-07-2007 at 02:31 PM.

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    Catch22,

    That is a great price on that rig. Did you have to bargin a lot for that price? What did the other builders come in at?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ledebuhr1 View Post
    Catch22,

    That is a great price on that rig. Did you have to bargin a lot for that price? What did the other builders come in at?
    We had to do some bargaining. The cost is truck only, no equipment. The only dump is in the rear compartment, no side dumps. The biggest factor (as I remember at least) was the fact that KW was looking to sell trucks at the time. It's the old emission standard, as well, so there'd be quite the jump in price after the new standard went it. We kind of slipped under the radar on that.

    Comparing the other builders is where our situation gets squirrelly. We bid out 2,000 gallon tankers with side mount 1,250 pump. HME was the closest bid, followed by FireMaster (a local outfit). When the council picked the builder, we did some changing (dropping this, dropping that) and got the most bang for the buck. We ended up saving enough we could afford the extra 500 gallons and it happened to work out that we saved over $3,500 going from a 1,500 Hale to a 1,750 Waterous (don't know how or why, but it worked out nicely).

    The changes is where Rosenbauer worked out well for us. I don't know how others handle that kind of thing, but up to the point we left our pre-build visit, they allowed us to tweak anything we wanted without a cost. The guy we dealt with and our salesman actually acted like they were concerned we got what we wanted.

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    I think one thing that often gets overlooked in this type of problem solving is that the GVWR for a given chasis should not be the single determining factor in the decision of how much we can carry. Trucks that are used in the fire service are not driven the same way that a commercial truck is designed to be driven. How many of you have called the tire dealer to ask how many miles should we expect to get out of these $750.00 a piece tires that are worn at 15K miles? (we actually had a dealer tell us that we were making too many left turns...........well, the station sits near the end of a dead end street, and there is only one address to the right. Shall we back out of the station to the nearest cross street on the even numbered days of the week?)
    Adding this factor to the list of things to consider would make me lean toward not loading the chassis to it's capacity but building in a margin of safety. We do this with our fire service rated ropes, aerial ladder safety ratings, etc. I personally like a tandem axel chasis. It gives me one more axel with brakes, distributes the weight over a few more tires, and will more than likely have a better turning radius than a single axel. Now with a chassis that is below it's GVWR, you have more brakes, suspension, etc. designed to handle more weight than you have put on it. Think of that as the safety factor you have built in the next time Mrs. Smith doesn't see the traffic light turn red and pulls out in front of you as you are returning from a run. Maybe that extra braking axel will give you the added brakes to stop before you make her your hood ornament.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mitchkrat View Post
    Not sure how, but appears Catch22 got a little better deal than I did, we have right at $225 k in our truck.
    That's a question I really don't know the answer to. Side dumps and some other things I see probably made a little difference, but not $30K worth. Did you guys get any equipment (other than ladders and suction)? We didn't even get a deck gun from them, just an extension ladder, roof ladder, and two sections of hard suction.

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    Quote Originally Posted by neiowa View Post
    You need to show up with 4000gal (20min @200gpm) just to get a 8B rating.
    In the majority of the US, 8b from ISO has no fire flow requirement.

    8 is the first class that requires fire flow, 250 for 2 hours minimum.

    Some areas ISO has modified their standards a little, but for the most
    part the 8b is simply everything you need to drop your ISO to a 6, but
    no fire flow requirements.

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    Local conditions/practices will also affect whether you have no pump, vacuum pump, 500 pto or a larger pump.

    I hate to go all NFPA on this discussion, but if you tanker has to draft to fill itself or others, a "by the book" approach calls for a minimum of 1000 gpm at the fill site.

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