1. #1
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    1

    Default Truck Company - bucket air

    Our Department currently uses Scott NxG2, my question is when we are operating above a fire in the bucket, can we use Scott air lines with adapters that connect to the truck and our facepiece. 1 BC states that he believes this practice would in violation of NFPA, OSHA standards for breathing apparatus since we would be bypassing the Airpack regulators and safety features (ie. heads up display). I should also state that we plan to wear Airpacks in this situation but would rather not adapt each Airpack to allow users to use bucket air for just this situation. Given the times that this may be necessary, it seems far more prudent to have air lines available for whomever is operating in the bucket. What do you (other departments) do?

  2. #2
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    May 1999
    Location
    Here, There, Everywhere
    Posts
    4,191

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by JEllis672 View Post
    Our Department currently uses Scott NxG2, my question is when we are operating above a fire in the bucket, can we use Scott air lines with adapters that connect to the truck and our facepiece. 1 BC states that he believes this practice would in violation of NFPA, OSHA standards for breathing apparatus since we would be bypassing the Airpack regulators and safety features (ie. heads up display). I should also state that we plan to wear Airpacks in this situation but would rather not adapt each Airpack to allow users to use bucket air for just this situation. Given the times that this may be necessary, it seems far more prudent to have air lines available for whomever is operating in the bucket. What do you (other departments) do?
    If needed we have our Masks with us. Although I'm not assigned to a TL, of all the times that I've seen us use one for outside elevated streams it is rare if ever that the men in the bucket would need to use such an extended amount of air or even use their Masks at all.

    JMO.

    FTM-PTB

  3. #3
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    New York
    Posts
    736

    Default

    Well as for my career dept. I'll just use FFred's post! As for my volly company we have a 95ft rear mount tower ladder made by E-one! We have the system in our bucket so that we can plug into the rigs main air system. All our scott's have the extra equipment on them in order to use this system. We have had this system for about 2 years now and I have yet to use it or see someone use it. I think it is useless. If it gets that bad in the bucket where you are located you can either move the bucket a little or just put your facepiece on for a few minutes. If the smoke is so severe that you have to use the rigs air for extended periods of time how the hell can you even see what you are doing! JMO.......Don't waist your time or money!!

  4. #4
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Northeast Coast
    Posts
    3,867

    Default

    We just bought a new tower with no air to the bucket. All the salesman thought we were crazy. But we just couldn't see the need. And for those few times when you really need your mask we've mounted two 60 min. SCBAs at the base so the crew can use these from the bucket. After an hour of playing around with a master stream you'll want a cup of coffee and let someone else have a turn. Of all the people we talked to during our specification process none had used the onboard air systems which also require hydrostatic testing and are subject to the typical issues with cables and hose that frequently extend and retract.
    Last edited by RFDACM02; 04-30-2007 at 03:27 PM.

  5. #5
    Forum Member
    Bones42's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Location
    Pt. Beach, NJ
    Posts
    10,685

    Default

    Our new one has air in the bucket. Last one did to. I can't remember ever seeing it used. We have adaptors so the SCBA masks can be connected when in the bucket. No, the HUD does not work when that is done. The system is regulated at the main bottle, not in the basket.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

  6. #6
    MembersZone Subscriber
    mcaldwell's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Panorama, British Columbia, Canada
    Posts
    3,022

    Default

    Can any of these systems be retrofitted to supply through the RIC connectors?

    I think that would maintain full functionality of the system, AND refill a partially empty bottle if needed.

    But specifically regarding the HUD, if you are on piped air, the system will not operate the same anyway, so it is probably a mute point. If your truck uses a compressor, there will be no gradual low air to alarm, and if you are on the large bottles, the volume is such that the pressure alarm will likely go off with an hour to go.
    Never argue with an Idiot. They drag you down to their level, and then beat you with experience!

    IACOJ

  7. #7
    MembersZone Subscriber
    Halligan84's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 1999
    Location
    Blackwood NJ, USA
    Posts
    816

    Default

    You can plug right into the EBSS system on the Scott pack, it works fine. If you have the detachable regulator that will work too. I agree with everyone else, I doubt I would have bought it again.

  8. #8
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Green Bay
    Posts
    1,031

    Default

    We have two buckets that have air supplied via the truck. The ladders have a different SCBA setup that allows an airline from the breathing air on the bucket to go through the SCBA. It has been a long while since anyone has been on air in the bucket, but we do have the capabilities. As for the PASS or HUD (don't have the HUD) working...truthfully I don't really know, never tried it. However, if there was a problem where a pass and HUD are needed while in the bucket, the engineer is at the turntable and can move you out of harms way as well as having controls in the bucket as well. Personally I don't see a need for a PASS device to be enabled while in the bucket. FF's know where you are and the ladder moves pretty easily out of harms way or to get you down.

  9. #9
    MembersZone Subscriber
    ShaversFork's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    The Southern Outer Banks/Crystal Coast
    Posts
    73

    Default

    Just a thought- we added a couple of schrader valve (plug ins) to our air supply to the TL platform.You could put a supply line to it for bottle fill on upper floors, use the connect for a transfill, etc.
    Sometimes the wind does shift the smoke back on you and it's nice to have the "extra air".
    "If Prometheus was worthy of the wrath of heaven for kindling the first fire upon earth, how ought all the Gods to honour the men who make it their professional business to put it out?"
    Smokey
    Local 4124

  10. #10
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    199

    Default

    Bottle fills and transfills?? I don't think so. Bucket air is low pressure air - in the 90 to 130 psi range. Good luck filling cylinders with that. Even if you did have HP air piped to your bucket, Schrader fittings are also only rated for low pressure - won't stand up to 4500psi, or 2216 for that matter.

  11. #11
    MembersZone Subscriber
    JohnVBFD's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Norfolk, Va
    Posts
    1,479

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ShaversFork View Post
    Just a thought- we added a couple of schrader valve (plug ins) to our air supply to the TL platform.You could put a supply line to it for bottle fill on upper floors, use the connect for a transfill, etc.
    Sometimes the wind does shift the smoke back on you and it's nice to have the "extra air".

    Awesome. I can't wait to read the injury/mishap report on this one.
    Co 11
    Virginia Beach FD

    Amateurs practice until they get it right; professionals practice until they cannot get it wrong. Which one are you?

    'The fire went out and nobody got hurt' is a poor excuse for a fireground critique.

  12. #12
    MembersZone Subscriber
    jfTL41's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    NY
    Posts
    573

    Default

    K.I.S.S. If you need to be on air in the bucket wear a mask. Having been assigned to a TL I can say that there are definatly times when you will need to put a mask on while operating in the bucket, however I am not in favor of air systems of any kind going up to the bucket. Keep it simple, bring your SCBA with you and use it when you need to, if you are flowing water and run out of air you have the time to shut down or drop down and swap out guys or cylinders. Most of the time the TLs are operating at large scale fires they are really doing no good, they are giving us something to do untilt he fire runs out of fuel, so don't kill yourself...

  13. #13
    MembersZone Subscriber
    ShaversFork's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    The Southern Outer Banks/Crystal Coast
    Posts
    73

    Default

    The schrader fittings were placed on the platform for air tool use. The breathing air on the platform is HP air. There is a regulator between the HP air and the schraeder fittings. The supply hose that is on the truck is for filling the 282's on the truck.
    Sorry for the confusion.
    "If Prometheus was worthy of the wrath of heaven for kindling the first fire upon earth, how ought all the Gods to honour the men who make it their professional business to put it out?"
    Smokey
    Local 4124

  14. #14
    MembersZone Subscriber
    Engine58's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Central, New Jersey
    Posts
    754

    Default

    We have a fitting on our SCBA bottles to plug into the connection for the large airtank on our boom. We went without it for a long time due to the price, but it will make life alot easier. We had a fire prior to getting the fittings on our SCBA and we had to go up and down 3 or 4 times to switch out manpower. Sure the short time that we were on teh ground didnt really make too much of a difference because the building was a total loss but it became an issue...and FINALLY they got the money to fix the problem.
    Andrew
    Firefighter/EMT
    New Jersey

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. ISO Company Personnel
    By FIRE549 in forum Firefighters Forum
    Replies: 20
    Last Post: 05-16-2007, 06:15 PM
  2. World Of Fire Report: 05-06-05
    By PaulBrown in forum World of Fire Daily Report
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 05-08-2005, 09:21 AM
  3. FYI in CA
    By hootman in forum Firefighters Forum
    Replies: 17
    Last Post: 09-28-2004, 12:04 AM
  4. World Of Fire Report: 01-25-04
    By PaulBrown in forum World of Fire Daily Report
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 01-27-2004, 09:15 PM
  5. World Of Fire Report: 12-26-01
    By PaulBrown in forum World of Fire Daily Report
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 12-30-2001, 02:43 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts

Log in

Click here to log in or register