1. #1
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    Default Accidental Marine Death

    The loss of any soldier for any reason is cause for a bad day in the office.

    Marine Charged In Accidental Training Death
    Report: Sergeant Failed To Remove Live Ammo From Rifle

    POSTED: 3:03 am EDT May 3, 2007

    SAN DIEGO -- A military report says a Marine sergeant failed to remove live ammunition from his rifle and replace it with blanks ahead of a fatal shooting during a training exercise last fall.

    Sgt. Caleb Hohman has been charged with manslaughter and dereliction of duty in the accidental shooting death at Camp Pendleton, in California.

    Several other Marines could face administrative action for what the report calls "individual and small-unit negligence and a lack of supervision."

    Investigators also said a "declining respect" at Pendleton for ammunition that is not accounted for is a mind-set that probably began in Iraq. Members of the battalion did combat tours in Anbar province, and accountability of ammunition "has dulled."

    Copyright 2007 by The Associated Press.


    However, I have been on joint exercises often enough in the past where frantic radio calls would be made, yelling "All Call-signs HATCHES DOWN. ALL CALL-SIGNS HATCHES DOWN. There is LIVE AMMUNITION on the range...."

    And everytime it was attributable to a US c/s using live ammo in their crew served weapons.

    Ok, I know that statement is going to bring a mud-storm, but this is not hear-say, its actual experience. It happend 3x during the last exercise I was on, RV 92, in Wainright, AB.
    Last edited by MalahatTwo7; 05-03-2007 at 12:00 PM.
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    So exactly HOW IN THE HELL DO YOU NOT notice that your rifle is the only without the BFA on it?

    String this moron up.

    As for your experiences MAlahat? I just have to again ask......What part of TRAINING EXERCISE do you morons NOT understand?
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    As an Infantry Squad Leader, I am a real pain in the azz when it comes to range safety and live ammo. When ensuring Condition 4 weapons, I check all thier mags and physically put my pinkie into thier weapon breaches after making a visual check.
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    This also happens with cops more than it should.They'll have a training session with empty sidearms or Simunitions(tm).Then afterwards,when they've cleared all the training areas of practice rounds and reloaded with their carry ammunition,someone will have a light bulb moment and"Hey Sarge?Instead of taking this action when a suspect wants to show he won't be taken alive,how about....?"and he draws,aims and "BANG!".A full investigation and funeral with full departmental honors follows.
    I've heard it said that there are two types of gun owners:those that have had an unintended discharge of their firearm and those that are going to.
    I'm in the first category and am very lucky I had the barrel elevated when it did.Instead of blowing through my trailer's wall and into my neighbor's kid's birthday party,it went through the roof and into an oak across the street.I intend to not have a repeat and can only do that by being paranoid about safety.Even when I KNOW that I just unloaded my revolver,rifle or shotgun,I check it even after laying it down to pick up the cleaning rod.
    But am I being paranoid ENOUGH?

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    As for your experiences MAlahat? I just have to again ask......What part of TRAINING EXERCISE do you morons NOT understand?
    I'll explain it once....

    When on Brigade/Division EXERCISES, we do not carry, issue or otherwise have in our possession LIVE ammunition. We are not at war with anyone except the Fantasians, and they dont carry live ammo either. The only time live ammo is anywhere near the training area is when we are intending to do live fire exercises. The exercise in question was a 100% non-live fire ex. So please take your "Moron" comment and put it up the barrel, and use it as a BFA.

    Because I could ask you "folks" why you have live fire "training deaths", why you have a expected "personnel lost at sea" percentage PER CRUISE? Shall I go on?

    However, I agree 100% with your first question, and feel it is very valid.
    If you don't do it RIGHT today, when will you have time to do it over? (Hall of Fame basketball player/coach John Wooden)

    "I may be slow, but my work is poor." Chief Dave Balding, MVFD

    "Its not Rocket Science. Just use a LITTLE imagination." (Me)

    Get it up. Get it on. Get it done!

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    Quote Originally Posted by MalahatTwo7 View Post
    So please take your "Moron" comment and put it up the barrel, and use it as a BFA.
    The moron comment was aimed at the twits who bring live ammunition to a training exercise that does not call for it. Not you.

    Quote Originally Posted by MalahatTwo7 View Post
    Because I could ask you "folks" why you have live fire "training deaths", why you have a expected "personnel lost at sea" percentage PER CRUISE? Shall I go on?
    People are always lost at sea. There is no accounting for stupidity and the cost that it has..........Playing football on a carrier deck , just not watching where you are going. The goal should be 100%, but we do live in reality.

    No accounting for incompetence and stupidity.
    "Too many people spend money they haven't earned, to buy things they don't want, to impress people they don't like." Will Rogers

    The borrower is slave to the lender. Proverbs 22:7 - Debt free since 10/5/2009.

    "No man's life, liberty, or property are safe while the legislature is in session." - New York Judge Gideon Tucker

    "As Americans we must always remember that we all have a common enemy, an enemy that is dangerous, powerful and relentless. I refer, of course, to the federal government." - Dave Barry

    www.daveramsey.com www.clarkhoward.com www.heritage.org

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    Whheeeewwww.... thank you for clarification Sharkie.
    If you don't do it RIGHT today, when will you have time to do it over? (Hall of Fame basketball player/coach John Wooden)

    "I may be slow, but my work is poor." Chief Dave Balding, MVFD

    "Its not Rocket Science. Just use a LITTLE imagination." (Me)

    Get it up. Get it on. Get it done!

    impossible solved cotidie. miracles postulo viginti - quattuor hora animadverto

    IACOJ member: Cheers, Play safe y'all.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MalahatTwo7 View Post
    Whheeeewwww.... thank you for clarification Sharkie.
    I thought you knew me better than to think I'd call you Canucks morons?

    Then again, there are the Quebec folks who love France.......but that just might be stupidity.
    "Too many people spend money they haven't earned, to buy things they don't want, to impress people they don't like." Will Rogers

    The borrower is slave to the lender. Proverbs 22:7 - Debt free since 10/5/2009.

    "No man's life, liberty, or property are safe while the legislature is in session." - New York Judge Gideon Tucker

    "As Americans we must always remember that we all have a common enemy, an enemy that is dangerous, powerful and relentless. I refer, of course, to the federal government." - Dave Barry

    www.daveramsey.com www.clarkhoward.com www.heritage.org

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