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Thread: The Interview

  1. #1
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    Default The Interview

    I'm a terrible interviewer. Any suggestions on how to work on this. I read on Firerecruit.com web site to try using a video camera and give yourself mock interviews. Has anybody tried this or know of some ways I can work on my interview. I get great written test scores, but can't seem to nail the interview.


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    Of course, everything you do to prepare helps.

    I have found the most helpful thing to be this:

    Make friends with someone in a local department that has been on interview panels before. If possible, visit the station and let the crew put you through a mock interview. Have them make it real. Stay in a room, have them come and get you, seat yourself, etc. Afterwards, actually leave the room for ten minutes while the interviewers talk. Pretend it is real.

    Afterwards, tell them to let you have the good and the bad. If they are really into it they will have taken notes and each one of them can give comments. I thought I was going to do pretty well on my interview, but after the mock one was over I really really improved my presentation. It made the difference.

    Video taping is a good tool, but I think the mock interview the best.

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    Default Hearing is Believing

    Everyone seems to be an expert once they get hired. Mock interviews can be a good tool but we find they don't tell you really what you need to hear. Our son Captain Rob coaches firefighter candidates by phone nation wide. He says, "They're going to tell you how to do if they were you. They're not you."

    A big problem is most candidates have never used a recorder to hear what the panel is going to hear coming out of their mouth.

    Hearing is Believing

    Have you ever listened to wind chimes? One hangs in our back yard. It contains 6 chimes. When there is not much breeze, only one chime is heard. Itís a constant monotone gong, gong, gong, gong. When the wind changes direction ever so slightly all-6 chimes begin to play a melody.

    It would only take you a short time as an oral board rater to hear the same constant drone when too many candidates use a flat monotone voice. It sounds like they were giving a patient assessment, sounding like the gong, gong, gong, blah, blah, blah of the one lone wind chime.

    Then a candidate, who knows what the panel is going to hear out of his mouth, because he has prepared with a tape recorder, sits down in the hot seat and comes out swinging. Hitting all the notes, with the necessary timing, inflection, enthusiasm and volume polished. Just like the slight increase in a breeze to activate all the notes on the wind chimes, if candidates only knew it would only take a few minor changes to orchestrate their interviews closer to their badges.

    It doesnít take long on a phone conversation with a candidate to realize why they are having problems.

    A recent candidate had such a monotone voice I asked if he knew? He said yea, but thatís just my voice. I told him I didnít believe that for a second. What can I do about it? Iíve been testing where I can for four years, going to school and work as a federal firefighter.

    Trying to get on his turf, I asked him during a coaching session what do you do with your time off? What are your interest, hobbies? What really rings your bell? Nothing seemed to work to break his monotone voice.

    That was until a few days later I get a call from an energized candidate. I didnít recognize the voice. Yes, it was Mr. Monotone. He told me he didnít realize how bad it was until he listened to the tape recording of his coaching session. He said, ďMan I sounded retarded. I canít believe how much stuff I left out. How many times I said ďWhat EverĒ and other stupid pause fillers I didnít know I was using."

    The mystery of why this super qualified candidate could not get hired was solved by listening to a tape of what the panel had been hearing for four years.

    You too can create the winds of change that can turn things around and ring all the chimes; coming out of the fog with the chimes that turn into tones dropping and youíre moving towards the rig on another call. The fifth call in a row. It started at shift change. You havenít had a chance to stop for anything more than to restock and get the rig ready for another run and not getting anything to eat. Youíre not hungry anyway. Because youíre working with a crew where the red-hot captain tells dispatch youíre available from the scene you are on so you wonít miss any calls. Youíre living the dream of a lifetime. Riding big red. The monotone voice a distant memory.
    ______________________________ _______________

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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptBob View Post
    Everyone seems to be an expert once they get hired.
    Wow, that's a cheap shot.

    Of course one is not an "expert" once they get hired, but it does earn them the right to opine on what they thinks works best, especially if they claim it's an "opinion" or "I think"...

    I've always appreciated the experience and integrity your posts and replys Captain Bob; I hope you just had a bad morning when you posted that remark - the ideas in your response would have been just as helpful without the crassness
    Last edited by JimmyJett; 05-06-2007 at 07:46 PM. Reason: Response to wrong post

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    Wait, here's a good idea:

    Do a mock interview, but tape yourself while you do it! Best of both worlds...

    Have the interview panel use some of Captain Bob's suggested questions. When you listen to the tape you can hear yourself for yourself, and the panel can spot things a tape recording won't, i.e. weak handshake, slumping in your chair, no eye contact, etc.

    Like I said earlier, I think everything you do will help.

    J

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    What part of the interview trips you up? I'm not a firefighter (yet) but in my current career I've done very well in interviews and would be willing to offer some advice if I can. What do you think your biggest problem in the interview process is?

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    Quote Originally Posted by JimmyJett View Post
    Wow, that's a cheap shot.

    Of course one is not an "expert" once they get hired, but it does earn them the right to opine on what they thinks works best, especially if they claim it's an "opinion" or "I think"...

    I've always appreciated the experience and integrity your posts and replys Captain Bob; I hope you just had a bad morning when you posted that remark - the ideas in your response would have been just as helpful without the crassness
    JimmyJett I know you're only trying to help. Me too. Of course I'm not referring to all firefighters. But there is never a lack of bad information. If you could have heard all the crap we hear from candidates that were told to use it by firefighters you would understand why I use that term. And no it's not presented as it's an "opinion" or "I think"...Then the candidate gets overwhelmed by what they should say and wonder why they canít get hired.

    The problem is too many forget how hard it is to get this job once they get hired.

    I know you donít want to look a gift horse in the mouth, but if youíre offered a mock oral ask yourself, how many oral boards have these guys been on? Have they been on their departments oral boards; ever? Any oral boards outside their department? How long since their last oral board? I know an instructor who taught the oral board skills at a community college and his department until recently had never given an oral board and to my knowledge he had never sat on one. Go figure.

    You can certainly gain exposure and experience of the oral board setting with mock orals. But be cautious on what information is given. Can these friends tell you how bad you really are? Could you tell your friends? Probably not. Add to the experience that you might not be getting the correct information you came for.

    Hereís one of many:

    On his visit to several LA City fire stations, a candidate was told to make sure he mentioned that his two cousins work for LA City!

    This is tricky. Itís a balancing act. It could hurt you. Too many candidates club the oral board over the head with a dad or other relative who is or has been a firefighter. The panel can interpret this as asking for more points. All you have to do it offend just one rater and your score could put you out of the running.

    Hereís another from our son Captain Rob:

    I couldnít Believe My Ears!

    Well it finally happened, after all these years of hearing things firefighter candidates have said in interviews, that some expert has told them was the right thing to do, I hear it first hand. I was sitting in the office of the fire station were I was working. The engineerís son had a friend testing for our department and he wanted him to talk to our firefighter, the newest guy on.

    Iím sitting there doing my work, and from the other room I hear him recommend this guy tell the board that he wants to be a firefighter because the pay is good and there are lots of days off. Now Iím waiting for them to laugh, and tell him theyíre kidding. It doesnít happen. The engineer has been on for 26 years, and hasnít had an interview for 19 years. The new guy was a lateral medic, and didnít have much of an entry interview.

    So I can see how this poor guy can be thinking, heís in a fire station for the dept heís testing for, and heís got a guy with many years on, and a guy who was the last one hired. He must be getting the straight scoop. He was getting the exact opposite. He had signed up for the ďHow To Fail An Oral Board" class, and he didnít know it.

    As I walked into the room, I couldnít let this go, the new guy was telling him that a good weakness to share with the board is that youíre a perfectionist. Now Iíve worked around perfectionists and itís no walk in the park, they think they donít do anything right, and neither do you.

    The candidate was Hispanic, and I asked him if he spoke Spanish. He told me he spoke a little and could understand a little more. I asked him if that might not be his weakness, that while he spoke some Spanish, it needed improvement. He bought some language tapes on the way home from the station, so he could demonstrate he was doing something to fix the problem.

    Now I find myself arguing with the new guy about what the best response is to why you want to be a firefighter. His theory was the board really wants to know why you want to be a firefighter. Trust me on this one, WE DONíT CARE, if you like the hours, pay, and status the job will bring you. You need to tailor your responses to match what the board is looking for, not what you feel, save that for your girlfriend. But you can take those things that motivated you to become a firefighter, and make a beautiful response to this question, and then it's your story.

    I worked with this same guy, the expert new guy, again the other day. I mentioned to him that I thought his responses were about the worst I'd heard. He said, "Yea, I've always been lousy at oral interviews." I asked him why he was giving advice and he said, "Well, everyone keeps sending people to me because I'm the new guy, so I figured I'd try to help." I told him he was, if anything hurting their chances, not helping, and he agreed.

    Know this. There are people out there who know their bad, but will still give you advice because you asked.

    In entry- level interviews we are going to ask three types of questions:

    1. Situational questions: to find out how you will handle lying, cheating, stealing, drinking, drug use, and getting along with others.

    2. Information questions: What have you done to prepare. What do you know about our department? These questions have a definite answer, itís like a math question two plus two is always four. There is a way, on our ratings sheet, for us to indicate you got it right, or you got it wrong.

    3. Subjective questions: Why do you want to be a firefighter, what first got you interested, what is customer service, ethnic diversity, your closing statement. These are not questions that have a right or wrong answer. We are going to rate you, basically, on if we liked your performance, and if you drew us in. Itís more like an English exam; your score is based on you getting us to identify with you.

    You want to think of the responses to these questions like a military operation. You want to get in, hit all the targets you can, and then pull right back out. You don't get any points for just talking, and you run the risk of loosing the board.

    Take every opportunity you can get to practice your oral interview skills; you can ever take police tests. Every time you speak in front of others you will get better, and more comfortable doing it. But please understand everybody on the fire department is not an expert, some of them donít even know how they got hired, and after listening to them talk I canít figure it out either.

    CAPTAIN ROB (Thank you)
    NRTC@SONIC.NET
    http://www.myfireinerview.com


    Want more:

    Got a call from a candidate last Monday. He lives in Washington now and his oral was to be on Friday. He got his FF1 from an academy in So Calif. He said he hasnít helped much trying to get a job. He has now been a medic for 8 months with no luck in testing. In the most pathetic monotone voice he said this is the department he really wants to work for and (with absolutely no enthusiasm) he will be one of the 15 hired.

    He asked if he could run one of his answers on what a negative is for him that his firefighter buddies and other friends helped him work out. Sure, shoot. Joel said a negative for me is my past. Even though I got a DUI and some other minor stuff, thatís not who I really am.

    Like FF/Rob said above, I couldnít believe my ears.

    Uh, Joel that answer would only open a can of worms that you would never be able to close. Donít use it.

    Joel said, OK how about this one. Another negative for me is my paramedic skills. This job will help me improve them. Again, I couldnít believe my ears. Yep, thatís the guy we want to hire, the one with the poor medic skills. Canít use this one either.

    Like Rob mentioned above, everyone becomes an expert when they get hired. The answers Joel worked out with some firefighters and friends were definitely not helping but hurting him. The bigger problem is he didnít even have a clue. This was just one answer. How bad were the others?

    I would like to say this was an isolated incident. Joel is not the only one. We encounter these bad answers on a regular basis. It is especially painful in an actual oral board where we see the candidates die a slow dead one question after another. Then the candidates wonder why they don't get hired. This is an area where we try to help candidates from stepping on the land mines.

    After a little probing, we did find a negative Joel could use that he was working on to improve.

    Then This:

    I was speaking at a college fire technology program recently. The candidates seemed to sluff off their attention when I touched on the psych test. Yea, yea, yea this does not apply to me was the reaction. Until they couldnít believe their ears when a candidate said, you had better pay attention to Captain Bob because he is right on target. He said, ďHey Iím not a bad guy, but I recently took a psych test as the last step in getting hired. By the time they got done, they made me look like Charles Manson. There was dead silence and full attention as he revealed his story.

    This opened a flood gate of questions that seemed would never end. Just because you have passed the written, physical, oral, background and medical, please donít get the illusion that you are bullet proof, on a roll, and the psych test is going to be a day at the beach. Once recent candidateís dad was a captain at the department where his last step was the psych. He called devastated that he was out of the process.
    ______________________________ _______________

    "Nothing counts 'til you have the badge . . . Nothing!"

    Fire "Captain Bob"

    www.eatstress.com

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    Default Not a Regular Job Interview!

    Quote Originally Posted by JLam77 View Post
    What part of the interview trips you up? I'm not a firefighter (yet) but in my current career I've done very well in interviews and would be willing to offer some advice if I can. What do you think your biggest problem in the interview process is?
    JLam77 as well meaning as you are here understand the Firefighter interview is like no other. Consider this:

    Not a Regular Job Interview!

    Many regular job and corporate interview candidates like the following are stunned and baffled why they don't have high scores on their firefighter interviews.

    Captain Bob:

    I just received my oral board score for the City of Glendale. The score did not represent how I felt I did during the interview. This is a big problem for me because I now realize that I DON'T KNOW what the board was looking for. I make presentations for a living, so I felt confident in what I did to prepare. I was sure that I just about nailed it.

    I've always been competitive about what I set out to accomplish, using every tool that I can utilize to reach my goal. Sir, I would greatly appreciate your training to help me be the best that I can be at the oral boards.

    I've been preparing for these orals for months and felt extremely prepared. I don't want to waste another oral board without knowing that I've done all that I can to be the best candidate possible. If you or your son have the time to help, I will make the most of that training. Please advise me on how to begin the process. I look forward to your response. Thank you for your time Sir. Regards, Fire Recruit Jeff

    Reply: Jeff, You're not alone here. You have discovered like many other's that a fire department oral board is different than anything you have encountered. Too many candidates beat there heads against the wall for years getting to the point where you are now. Hereís how to turn it around: http://www.eatstress.com/formula.htm

    Another:

    Capt. Bob:

    After my interview rejection an east coast city last week, I sent a letter to the D/C thanking him for the opportunity and telling him I'd appreciate any feedback from the interview. Well - he was honest - he indicated he wanted me to keep testing & interviewing, but wrote that I:

    -talked too much & over answered the questions
    -talked too fast
    -some of my answers were based on book knowledge (?)

    Also - as I mentioned I approached this like I would a corporate interview (BAD IDEA) and I tried to 'close' them at the end - they asked if I had any closing questions (jeez I wish I read your web site before going in) and I opened my big stupid mouth to say 'I kept your rejection letter from last year (I actually showed it to them - this was my second time interviewing) and it mentioned that candidates had failed to prepare and properly sell themselves to the board. I've been working to improve myself in these areas for the past year - have I properly done this?'

    The D/C mentioned in his letter back to me that, 'I don't think that showing the letter I mailed out last time was the best thing you could have done. It was as if you were showing it off and showing us that you still had it.' I need to keep my damn mouth shut and just answer the questions. Live and learn. I look forward to getting your package.

    Stay safe Dave

    Reply: The mystery has been solved. You're not alone here. You have discovered like many other's that a fire department oral board is different than anything you have encountered. Too many candidates beat their heads against the wall for years getting to the point where you are now.

    No more questions. The defense rests your honor.
    ______________________________ _______________

    "Nothing counts 'til you have the badge . . . Nothing!"

    Fire "Captain Bob"

    www.eatstress.com

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    Default Experts

    The following is a true story:

    If the village idiot can get hired, you can get a badge too! Thatís right! We had a candidate who was a volunteer taking his third test to be hired as a paid member. When this guy was out of town, the village didnít have an idiot.

    He received our program and did not one, but two, coaching sessions. We literally held him together with crazy clue. Guess what? He got hired. The next week, he made this posting on a bulletin board, ďI will show you how to get a firefighter job.Ē The village idiot had become the expert overnight on how to get hired. I couldnít believe what I was reading. He received thirty e-mails.
    ______________________________ _______________

    "Nothing counts 'til you have the badge . . . Nothing!"

    Fire "Captain Bob"

    www.eatstress.com

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    Default Thanks!

    First I want thank everyone for their input. I didn't mean to cause a stir. I appreciate the tips and will take it all in and figure out what works and maybe some day post some advice myself regarding the interview process.

    In answer to one question, "What trips me up" I think it's just the whole process, just never feeling as comfortable as I need to. I know I have tended to ramble in the past and I find the more I talk the more I'm likely to say the wrong thing. I've learned this in both interviews and when fighting with my wife. I have worked on keeping things brief and concise, but I'm just not verbally articulate. I can write well and express myself and thoughts on paper, but my mouth doesn't have a back space or delete button. I have found myself sweating like a stuffed pig. I have found myself going down roads and wondered what the hell I was doing or saying. Even though I try to think before I speak, I just flounder sometimes. I'm intelligent, have a solid resume and great references. I know and love the job. I just need to learn to relax and keep my foot out of my mouth. I agree that just cause one has a job does not make them an expert, but I think all the advise I've received thus far is good and I will take form it and work on what I need to. I will try the video and possibly video tape a mock interview. I think that's a good idea.

    PS: Once I thought I did terrible and scored well and another time I thought I did great and bombed. I don't even know what I do right or wrong when I do it. It's a lot like my golf swing. The problem is the more I work on my golf swing and think about what I'm doing, the worse I get. I find my game gets better with every beer. Maybe that's it! I just need a little heater going into the interview room. OK, next question for everyone, what's the strongest breathe mint on the market? Just kidding. Thanks again everyone.

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    Default Dramatically Improve Your Chances of Getting a Badge!

    Tealla42 Some great insight here. Like a lot of firefighter wana bees you are probably stuck somewhere in the process and you don't know why. You have been registeres on this site since 2002. If you've been testing that long and haven't been hired you have to ask yourself why?

    How important is it to figure out what might be keeping you from getting a badge?

    BOB SMITH
    Firehouse.com Contributor
    http://cms.firehouse.com/content/art...30&sectionId=8

    Your odds of getting a firefighter badge are not the best you've ever had, right? But consider this. Those candidates, who get a proven oral board interview program, practice with a hand held recorder and get in a recorded private coaching session with a reliable coach with a good track record can improve their chances dramatically in obtaining their badges. That's right!

    If you are testing and your results letter doesn't have a score in the hiring range you have to start asking yourself why. How can you make the difference to be over forty on the list and to be in the top ten going to the chief's oral to nail a badge?

    Did you ever see a batter change his stance after a few words from his coach? And then see his batting average go higher? Of course. As a firefighter candidate coach along with our son Captain Rob, we have been there, done that. Got the ball cap, T-shirt and played the game. We've seen beyond the horizon where you can't see.

    I'm a coach and a seasoned veteran, someone who knows the game inside out, upside down, backward and forward. I let these experiences and insights keep you on the high road to a badge.

    I have coached candidates who had no experience and those who have been trying up to 18 years to get a firefighter job or promotion. One thing is common with most. After beating their heads against the wall trying everything possible to get this job, they figured out that the real secret is being able to pass the oral high enough to get a shot at the badge. Because in most cases 100% of your score to get hired is in the oral board interview!

    Can you do it on your own? It's certainly possible if you don't run out of money, jobs, family, friends and hope before you figure it out. Almost immediately candidates who get coaching figure out what they're doing wrong, get unstuck, improve their scores and get a real shot at a badge. You can look at the results other people just like you have gotten by using a proven formula. They simply got positive results by putting simple techniques into action. You can review what they have to say HERE http://www.eatstress.com/testbest.htm

    What have you done so far that is going to get you the badge?

    Do you spend money on classes? Books? Academies? Training? Then how about the oral board? Oh, yeah I forgot, you're good to go with the oral board right? You've got that wired. You can wing the oral. Right? Then where is your badge? I talked to a candidate the other day who had his chest pushed out saying he was number 15 on this list, twelve on that list and on and on. After several years of testing, he was still another bride's maid.

    "There is no free lunch . . . But there are better places to eat."

    How important is it to figure out what might be keeping you from getting a badge?

    This is an amazing story. I feel like I got the call. A large department sent out invitations for their chief's orals. A 20 year-old non- medic candidate called on short notice to get in for a coaching session. We did the session the next day.

    On Friday a more seasoned medic called that his interview with the same department was on Monday (three days away). I asked, OK, have you been practicing with a tape recorder? Well, no. . . . You need to hear what the panel is going to hear out of your mouth? Yes. I know it's my fault. I just bought a tape recorder and will start practicing tonight. Any chance I can get in? Sorry, we don't do coaching sessions until a candidate has been practicing their script with a tape recorder. It's like pulling teeth for us and a waste of your time and money.

    Well, both candidates took their orals on Monday. On Tuesday, I got a call from the very excited 20-year old candidate that he just got a job offer. He said what really helped him was to connect all the dots and find out what needed to be taken out of his presentation. He had good stuff. In the coaching session he was able to put together a segment of his personal life experiences that could be used as an answer to a particular oral board question or in his closing statement (yes, 20 year olds have valuable life experiences). When he was asked this question in his oral he was loaded for bear. He told me as he was finishing his answer to this question he saw the chief's begin to get this little smile. It only added to the energy. He knew when he left the room he had the job. He did!

    On Wednesday, I got a call from the medic candidate saying he got a call that he didn't make the cut. They called the first 15 candidates. He placed above 30 on the list. This was the forth time this medic candidate had taken this cities test. Twice he did not make it past the chief's interview.

    Part of the call from the city was to invite him back on Thursday to take the fire/medic chief's oral. He said he felt only a coaching session before his next interview on Thursday, was keeping him from getting the job. Yes, he had been practicing with a tape recorder since last Friday. It would be a challenge with such short notice. It was grueling trying to remove the embedded bad stuff with his better-personalized stuff.

    Twenty minutes into the coaching session he said he knew why he had been failing his interviews. This candidate didn't receive anything that he didn't already have. Like the Tin Man in the Wizard of Oz, we're not going to give you anything you don't already have. We're just going to show you where it is.

    It was the same panel members from his interview on Monday for the fire/medic chief's oral. The difference was this was not the same candidate. Four hours after his chief's interview that morning his phone rang with a job offer. That has to be record time.

    As I was putting the finishing touches on this article I received an e-mail that only confirms the importance of a complete program:

    Captain Bob, Captain Rob
    I worked hard, begged and borrowed for over five years in order to get a badge and not until I followed your instructions (tape recorder, video taping, and writing down my script) and got some coaching from Captain Rob did everything come together. . . Not only did I get this job, but I had to turn down some (4 to be exact) Chief's interviews during the academy from other fire departments.

    Please add me to the long list of people who have received a badge because of your help. I thank you and my family thanks you. I am writing to inform you that I am a probationary Firefighter for a dream Fire Department and am relaxing at home on my first 4-day off. You and Rob helped me with my preparation and direction going into my oral interviews. Not only did I get this job, but I had to turn down some (4 to be exact) Chief's interviews during the academy from other fire departments. I worked hard, begged and borrowed for over five years in order to get a badge and not until I followed your instructions (tape recorder, video taping, writing down my script) and got some coaching from Captain Rob did everything come together. As I mentioned, not only did I get a job, I made it to the chief's interview every test that I took afterwards. Now I get to live the dream.

    Respectfully, Fernando

    Do yourself a favor and not waste any more opportunities in trying to gain your badge. Have someone in the know review what you're doing. More on coaching HERE.

    And when you make it big-time and get that badge, as with so many before you, I will bask in the glow of your success. But, as a coach I take no credit, accept no credit. A great coach insists that since you were on the field of play, since you were the one making the moves, the credit all goes to you.
    ______________________________ _______________

    "Nothing counts 'til you have the badge . . . Nothing!"

    Fire "Captain Bob"

    www.eatstress.com

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