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  1. #21
    MembersZone Subscriber mcaldwell's Avatar
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    Whoops, correction.

    We just received the 5200HD2 (with the zoom). I was confuzzled there for a moment, but I'm feeling much better now.
    Never argue with an Idiot. They drag you down to their level, and then beat you with experience!

    IACOJ


  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by AC1503 View Post
    The main reason that we bought a Bullard TIC was service. The Bullard factory is in the adjoining state of Kentucky, and is less than a two hour drive from our station. Bullard promised to repair it, or to give us a loaner if they can't repair it, while we wait. We would only have to make one trip. We would ship theirs back when ours was received after being repaired.
    My old Ast. Chief had the same response. Like I told him he was buying it to fail. His ONLY reason for buying Bullard was to get it repaired, not for the features or anything else.

    Well, surprised I hadn't gotten more response from my comment above. What truly makes one camera better than another? When there are a "few" cameras that use the same Raytheon (L3) core and engine, basically just puts their camera in a different box, what makes one camera better than another? Right now it is a very simple word - HYPE. The new NFPA that is being worked on should make them ALL document everything and be on the SAME level field and not advertising they an withstand 2000 degrees (and I have heard sales people do it). First thing I attack them on is what temperature does there gear withstand, backs them right down. When you do the research they have found a way to manupulate one aspect of the camera to get it to read 2000, except the cameras are cooled by the case around the camera. It heats up and shuts down. If they are all cooled by the air around the case, might the camera with the largest area in the case last you a bit longer in the heat?

    But off my soap box. TEST TEST TEST. Test them all. If a person makes a claim set up the test, heat the cameras up, go to a burn building.
    Last edited by Lieutenant387; 09-18-2007 at 07:08 AM.

  3. #23
    Protective Economist Jonathan Bastian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lieutenant387 View Post
    What truly makes one camera better than another? When there are a "few" cameras that use the same Raytheon (L3) core and engine, basically just puts their camera in a different box, what makes one camera better than another? Right now it is a very simple word - HYPE. The new NFPA that is being worked on should make them ALL document everything and be on the SAME level field and not advertising they an withstand 2000 degrees (and I have heard sales people do it). First thing I attack them on is what temperature does there gear withstand, backs them right down. When you do the research they have found a way to manupulate one aspect of the camera to get it to read 2000, except the cameras are cooled by the case around the camera. It heats up and shuts down. If they are all cooled by the air around the case, might the camera with the largest area in the case last you a bit longer in the heat?
    First, even when the core is similar, there are differences between the imagers. Different features are included, or excluded, in the core depending on the manufacturer of the TI. The ergonomics and design, as well as durability of the TI, are dependent on the individual manufacturer.

    Imagers are not cooled by the case; the case acts as insulation. There is also temperature management done internally, through heat sinks and the like. Design improves durability and resistance to heat, not necessarily size.

    But, as you mention, who cares if the TI can survive a 2500 degree flashover...the guys using it can't. The most durable TIs on the market today can outlast a firefighter in high heat environments.
    My comments are sometimes educated, sometimes informed and sometimes just blowing smoke...but they are always mine and mine alone and do not reflect upon anyone else (especially my employer).

  4. #24
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    I prefer the MSA 5200 TIC. I honestly dont care about having a 60" HD TV screen or zoom features. I could understand if the dept needed to have that capability for certain select fires during overhaul and such, however I need a rugged camera that I can easily trouble shoot, throw down when I find a victim, crawl on (it is going to be in my hand in the fire remember), and abuse. A TIC allows me and my crew to get in and out faster, safer and more efficiently. Ours is in a truck charger mount on the engine hump. We have it attached to a very very sturdy retractable lanyard that you clip to you when you grab the camera out of the truck. It has a single large button that is easily manipulated with the bulkiest of fire gloves so if It gets turned off on accident I can instantly correct the problem. The design or the handle, which is hard to explain you will just have to emo one and look at it allows you to crawl and with it in your hand and bang it in to stuff, put your full body wieght on it wahtever you need to do. You do a search and find a patient? Throw the tic down, thats why the retractable lanyard is on there, it doesnt matter how hard you throw it the lanyard woont allow it to hit the ground although from what Ive seen Id be ok playing rugby with it its been so rugged. If you decide you have a free hand an need to look at the tic again its hanging at your belly pick it up. I dont know what the best solution for yall is but the MSA product fit our purposes perfectly, and as far as electronics go its the most firefighter proof ive seen so far. Take this for what its worth. As far as a square vs. rectangular vs 17" flat pannel HUD display with laser target designation goes, I dont really think it matters, you have to point the thing where you want to look anyway. As long as they were just a rugged and effective enough for your job I would absolutly go for cheaper internal parts to allow me to get as many units as possible on the trucks making my guys safer.

  5. #25
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    Default Camers too look at

    If you are lloking for a camera, take a look at the new Drager Camera.

    I sell cameras and well its impressive.

    The way to do it is get all the camera info. read up on what TI's are designed to do....

    and when you get bored with that take a look at all camera making an exact comparison of several different situations.

    I recently had a dept look at and evaluate many cameras. There are big differances and based on what your real need is and what the camera can do.

    In no means do not by a camera based on the cost or name. Buy it based on its ability to complete the task you want it to.

    every camera is different. take look at the drager camera side by side with others.

    it is worth the look. you will not be disapointed unless you want a name or a price.

  6. #26
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    HEEERRRREEEE we go again. Another person not reading the terms of use...

  7. #27
    Forum Member Rescue101's Avatar
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    We've got some T3's and State Fire training does also.We've beat the snot out of these cameras and they just keep coming back for more.The MSA 5200 series and their newer cousin(5600?)are a nice camera as well. T.C.

  8. #28
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    We just went through the process of evaluating cameras. We reviewed the MSA 5600, Eagle 160, Bullard T3Max, Fire Flir (3M) and the Draeger 1600. We ordered the Draeger 1600. I am not recomending the Draeger camera, but I would suggest looking at it and all others that interest you.

  9. #29
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    Default Scott 160 Thermal Imager

    Quote Originally Posted by StealthFF View Post
    There is no such thing as a Bullard 5000. It is either a Bullard T3XT or a T3Max (if it has a thermal throttle, it is the T3Max). Of course it could be the new T4, but I doubt that is in the budget. MSA makes the 5000.

    How often do you do interior attack? If you usually show up in time to save the basement, I would go with the Scott and hope it doesnt break.

    If you go plan on going interior with the TIC, I would go with the toghest unit available. Have your reps come out and see who will abuse thier TIC in front of you. If they arent allowed to hold it over thier head and drop it, you might want to think twice about how ff proof it is.
    The comment here "I would go with The Scott and hope it doesn't break"? Are there known issues with the Scott 160 Thermal Imager?

  10. #30

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    Cool

    We use GB Solo products, we currently have 2 solovisions in use and 2 s2's on order. We've found out of all cameras which we've treid and tested the solovisions give us what we need. Out guys can quite often find they need both hands in order to do there job and the solovisions can be strapt to there heads giving them the ability to have both hands free.
    We've found that with such as the Bullard T3, T4 or any tic which is basically a box on a stick, when used in a smokey situation we have found it hard to see the screen as the surrounding atmosphere intercepts our view. Has anyone else had this problem?

  11. #31
    Protective Economist Jonathan Bastian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TravisKurt View Post
    We use GB Solo products, we currently have 2 solovisions in use and 2 s2's on order. We've found out of all cameras which we've treid and tested the solovisions give us what we need. Out guys can quite often find they need both hands in order to do there job and the solovisions can be strapt to there heads giving them the ability to have both hands free.
    We've found that with such as the Bullard T3, T4 or any tic which is basically a box on a stick, when used in a smokey situation we have found it hard to see the screen as the surrounding atmosphere intercepts our view. Has anyone else had this problem?
    Funny...I've been in a hundred or so fires (maybe more) with handheld TIs, and never had that problem. Thousands of FDs around the world have used handhelds without that problem. The US Navy has recommended handhelds for use in shipboard firefighting, failing to see that problem.

    I trust you have trained properly to overcome the tunnel vision and lack of peripheral vision that occurs with the Solo? I trust you have trained properly to overcome the inability to show the image to other firefighters and explain the situation?

    Funny how you point out Bullard only and "box on a stick." Trying to create a problem where there is none? Hiding an ulterior motive?
    My comments are sometimes educated, sometimes informed and sometimes just blowing smoke...but they are always mine and mine alone and do not reflect upon anyone else (especially my employer).

  12. #32
    Forum Member Rescue101's Avatar
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    Funny,a T3 doesn't have a "stick".Nor have I had any interference in fire operations using a T3,sling and go.Same with the MSA's.Hard to see the screen? Guess I must be missin' something. T.C.

  13. #33
    Forum Member firemonkey311's Avatar
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    my dept just purchased a Scott Eagle 160 and a Scott Egale X. Both very nice camera's
    Hello. Fire dept.. You light'em, We fight'em!

    "hard working, gear jamming, nail driving, "jake". "

    IACOJ
    4-16-2010 "On the approach"

  14. #34
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    Talking Isg

    The K1000 is pretty neat.... tried it a couple of times. I would trade the bullard anytime.

  15. #35

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    Try them all and buy the best most solid camera for the money. Don't get caught up in a bunch of features you dont need. We ended up going with the Scott Eagle 160. Does everything we need and we were able to buy three cameras for the price of two of the competitors we demoed. Just my two cents. Cheers

  16. #36
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    I want to thank everyone for their input. Just like the original poster, we are also a small rural department, and I got us a grant for a TIC. There is lots of useful information here.

    I have used a Thermal Imager before, but that was 1971, and it was built into an OV-1 aircraft. From 10,000 feet, I could tell if someone walking across the desert was male or female. The FLIR came with a tech rep. - A TIC will not.

  17. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by mongobob View Post
    I'm with a small volunteer department in northern Wisconsin. We've decided to invest in a TIC, and we're wondering which model gives you the best bang for your buck. Any opinions?
    Hello, I am on the job with Columbus Ohio FD and I work parttime for Morning Pride. I show departments our TIC, the Fire Warrior. I do trainings, and burns to groups who are looking to buy new TIC's. This is as no cost or obligation to the department. Just recently, a small Wisconsin FD called Markesan bought one of my cameras. I came up to Wisconsin twice for training and I know they love the camera. The Chief is named Tom Wilde. I can be reached at scott.sanders@totalfiregroup.c om if you have any questions. Good luck with your seach.

    scott

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