trident air prime

[westofd1]

hi all, just wondering if anyone has experience with trident products "AIR PRIME". runs of the air system of trucks, venturi mounted to pump. trying to find an alternative to hale esp primer. we have had nothing but troubles with the new esp on our 2003 engine, 3 times in less than 4 yrs and it wont work now. looking for an alternative. thanks stay safe

[tomwnh]

I have been spec'ing that primer on 90% of the new trucks I have quoted and sold for the last few years. Haven't had one complaint. Even had some clients that retrofitted older trucks after they had a chance to use the Trident. One thing you have to be sure to check is you have a large enough compressor and air storage. Most trucks I do we put and extra air tank on. A 18CFM compressor should do the trick.

[Rescue101]

Westofd,PM me.I may have a solution for your ESP without changing it out. T.C.

[tomwnh]

Why not just post it and give us all a chance to learn. Come on T.C., share the wealth!!!!!

[ChiefDog]

Why not just post it and give us all a chance to learn. Come on T.C., share the wealth!!!!!

Now Tom... I am sure he has his reasons.

[Rescue101]

We had two of those on our rigs.The vanes over time get sticky and the primer quits working.What we did was pull the little plug out of the top,installed an oil tank,plumbed them up and now they're an oil type primer rather than the enviornmentally friendly oilless.The up side is they work,everytime,and you don't have to pull them apart every six months to free up the vanes.Hale can't sell you the kit but almost any fire mechanic worth his presence can make the conversion.Simple,inexpensive and effective. T.C.

[chiefengineer11]

We had two of those on our rigs.The vanes over time get sticky and the primer quits working.What we did was pull the little plug out of the top,installed an oil tank,plumbed them up and now they're an oil type primer rather than the enviornmentally friendly oilless.The up side is they work,everytime,and you don't have to pull them apart every six months to free up the vanes.Hale can't sell you the kit but almost any fire mechanic worth his presence can make the conversion.Simple,inexpensive and effective. T.C.

Funny you should mention that. In 1998 the rotary gear primer on our'78 Hahn, Hale QLD125 failed (a whole 'nother story). I replaced it with a Hale oilless primer. When it was new, if you didn't operate it at least every week, it would stick. After a couple of tries, it would break loose and work. Ever since then, it works fine. We have a dry hydrant that includes about 40' lateral and about a 20' lift. It pulls a prime from there every time, no sweat (annual practice). So simple, even FWDbuff can do it.

Stay safe out there, everyone goes home!

[ponebutton]

So...does anyone have any more info about TRIDENT primer? How about Retrofit issues? Freezing issues? Clogging issues?

[Catch22]

Hale actually recommends you use and check the primer weekly. Part of that check is to flush water through it for 10-15 seconds. As the vanes turn, some of the carbon wears off and can collect in the primer and jam the vanes. Flushing them helps get rid of the carbon that collects. Perhaps that is part of your issue?

[npfd801]

So...does anyone have any more info about TRIDENT primer? How about Retrofit issues? Freezing issues? Clogging issues?

I don't know about how much trouble it was, but a department I just sold a rig to had a Trident primer retrofit into an existing pumper. I didn't sell them that pumper nor was I involved in the install, but they're so tickled with the primer that we did a change order to put one on the rig they bought from me...

My discussions with them made it sound like installing the Trident really wasn't that big of a deal. I think (it's been a while since we talked about it) that their mechanic did the install in their station in about a day.

[Catch22]

I don't suppose anyone would know round-about what one of these costs? We've got an older pumper that the primer has gone out on. Hale says it's an antiquated primer and there's no longer parts available. We really don't want to have to mess with spending $1,500 on a primer for a truck we rarely use. I'm curious if this Trident is a more cost-effective alternative.

[Rescue101]

Catch,like I said Hale isn't allowed to tell you what I just did.And your book definition is spot on.However with our water and use conditions,we found that a oiless to oil conversion eliminated the problem. Entirely! No sticking,no screwups,and faster priming with less wear.Do you want a tuna with good taste or a tuna that tastes good? T.C.

[firetruck917]

I have this primer installed on the last 2 truck we have purchased, and retrofitted our other engine when the esp failed. We have had no problems with the primer at all. We will never go back to an electric.

hi all, just wondering if anyone has experience with trident products "AIR PRIME". runs of the air system of trucks, venturi mounted to pump. trying to find an alternative to hale esp primer. we have had nothing but troubles with the new esp on our 2003 engine, 3 times in less than 4 yrs and it wont work now. looking for an alternative. thanks stay safe

[Catch22]

Catch,like I said Hale isn't allowed to tell you what I just did.And your book definition is spot on.However with our water and use conditions,we found that a oiless to oil conversion eliminated the problem. Entirely! No sticking,no screwups,and faster priming with less wear.Do you want a tuna with good taste or a tuna that tastes good? T.C.

I understand what you're saying, and I'm not saying you're not right. Just throwing a thought out for a possible quick fix for a lot of guys. I'm sure you know as well as I do a lot of the fire service doesn't care for their equipment like they should.

[FWDbuff]

So simple, even FWDbuff can do it.

Do those Trident air primers work on under-the-hood sprinkler systems?

[westofd1]

just to add a little more. we just got said truck retro-fitted with the trident unit. our test & drill with it seems very good. there is little noise compared to the electric units. and there is not a 300 amp draw on electrical system. as for another reply when we first had issues with esp unit a hale rep at factory told me that they hadn't had any complaints about the units and as a matter of fact it was the standard for most manufacturer's. at which time i told him ( politely ) i could tell him at least 2 other departments in a 10 mile radius that have had nothing but troubles as well. after the first rebuild they told us to just pull prime valve after pump had picked prime to flush out primer . it still didn't help. the only good thing is our neighboring department has rebuilt there's 4 times in 3 yrs. then last month after 2 rebuilds i talked to a rep and he sent me the info on converting esp to fluid. its an easy fix. in the info they say to install 2 tanks, 1 for the priming liquid and 1 for the expelled liquid. we discussed it at a meeting about what to do about not being able to trust the esp unit's reliability and decided to go with the trident. our repair shop gave us a few names of departments that had spec'd them on there new trucks and they all were very positive as being the way of the future. if it works out well on this unit it will be retro-fitted to our other engines in the future. sorry for the long post. stay safe. walt

[txgp17]

I'm pushing to add the Trident AirPrime™ for all our new trucks.

One thing has me wondering though.....

NFPA 1901 (2009) 24.12.1* states that the chassis air brake system shall not be used for emergency use applications.

How do we get around that?

I went to the appendix to get some details on the asterisk notation, and it states that the air brake system is not intended rescue air bags, air tools, air reels, and other rescue applications.

I never understood this requirement when it was instituded since chassis air compressors usually have 100% duty cycle ratings. Air brakes fill a HP air bag like a champ.

[npfd801]

I'm pushing to add the Trident AirPrime™ for all our new trucks.

One thing has me wondering though.....

NFPA 1901 (2009) 24.12.1* states that the chassis air brake system shall not be used for emergency use applications.

How do we get around that?

I went to the appendix to get some details on the asterisk notation, and it states that the air brake system is not intended rescue air bags, air tools, air reels, and other rescue applications.

I never understood this requirement when it was instituded since chassis air compressors usually have 100% duty cycle ratings. Air brakes fill a HP air bag like a champ.

But if you specify an independent tank that is specifically for this purpose, and will not drain the air tanks used for braking, does this satisfy the requirements?

[GFPD2005]

You get around it by signing the contract before Jan 1! haha

We specified the Hale ESP and said the Trident Air could be used as an alternative. After reading more and more about the Trident I hope the bidders propose that over the Hale. The air compressor is 18.7 cfm so that should be plenty.

Unless your doing pump and roll operations I dont see how the air primer could be a concern with your brake system.

[chiefengineer11]

You get around it by signing the contract before Jan 1! haha

We specified the Hale ESP and said the Trident Air could be used as an alternative. After reading more and more about the Trident I hope the bidders propose that over the Hale. The air compressor is 18.7 cfm so that should be plenty.

Unless your doing pump and roll operations I dont see how the air primer could be a concern with your brake system.

I wasn't even aware of Trident until they came and made a presentation at our county engineers' association meeting a year or so ago. I was very impressed with its simplicity and there for inherent reliability. Its operating principle is very similar to that of an exhaust primer. If I had been aware of it when we spec'd our Toyne, I'd have asked the members to consider using it. I do get to go to Trident's facility and visit every now and again. Their location is such we'd probably be due there on a second alarm.