1. #1

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    Thumbs down Why does this guy seem Hate firefighters?

    This guy Gary Lacey is always writing editorial columns bashing firefighters. He never has a nice word to say and I am sick of him. Check this article out http://www.dailybulletin.com/opinions/ci_5834008 if this link doesn't work go to http://www.dailybulletin.com
    then opinions and look for the article:
    "Firefighters appreciated, unbelievably well paid."
    I wish the papers would stop printing garbage.

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    Those that can't do...criticize.

    For every mutt, there are 99 other people who appreciate their firefighters.

    Don't worry about him.. he isn't worth the aggravation!
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
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    He writes stuff like this to bank on people emotions. He tries to create controversy. He also wants to get his name out there. Most people donít even pay attention. People like him are a dime a dozen. Just remember he WANTS you to get mad. He WANTS you to flood the paper (website) with letters of protest. Donít give him the time of day, but keep a good memory.
    This space for rent

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    I always get a chuckle out of folks like this. They know all about being a firefighter without ever having ridden on a fire apparatus.

    While I admit I'm not helping. This thread is already too long.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

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    Yeah...and he better hope that HIS house doesn't ever catch on fire....can we say "Open mouth, insert foot"??? What a dumbarse...
    "Well behaved women rarely make history"

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    Yep, too long already.

    I hereby change the topic to:

    Tax on Newspapers?

    I went to the store today and gave the clerk the usual two quarters for my local paper, and she tells me the total is 54 cents. Great, now I have to break a dollar.

    I laughed it off with an "I'll be damned. It's the Stamp Act all over again."

    Freedom of the Press (plus 7%).
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    Dam it now I am thinking of the boston tea party. Thanks.
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    Shall be my brother;..." - King Henry V - Shakespeare

    Quote Originally Posted by Catch22 View Post
    It's not the brightest thing to come into a topic and try to provoke a bunch of guys/gals with more time on the firehouse crapper than you do in the firehouse.
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    We used to call papers like that "fish wrap" because that is all they were good for. Well maybe you could line your dogs kennel with it
    Tom

    Never Forget 9-11-2001

    Stay safe out there!

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    On note I have to address here. Every time I hear that "Firefighters jobs are not in the BOL top 15 dangerous jobs..." I want to f-ing punch someone.

    Why?

    The stats. and numbers come from insurance companies final year end tallys. BUT MOST PAID FIRE DEPARTMENTS ARE SELF INSURED. So our #s dont get transmited to the final reports. And the Volunteer Firefighters are covered by a private insurance company and its up to that particular comp. to forward their #s as well.

    I hate people like Mr. Lacy that will twist a certain subject to fit blurred view.

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    I personally think that the numbers, however they are done, would be tainted. You take some of the larger departments out there who fight fire all the friggin time and have a high injury rate.... and then you compare them with thousands of suburban departments and vollies.... who i'm not saying dont fight fire and dont get hurt, but do it on a much rarer scale and it taints the numbers.


    Everyone is out to get hurt and be injured. But, you take the fire and injury rate of a large urban department and compare to a city that runs maybe 10% of the fires... I hope you get my idea.

    Now, you compare it to a lumberjack.... who if its in Canada or Oregon or Montana.... your cutting trees down. Same thing no matter where you go. Your not dealing with economic situations, building construction, crazed drivers.

    You have a tree.... and a chainsaw.... you combine the two and tree fall down... and then you move on. How would it be different if it was in Oregon or BFE Canada... other than the obvious fact that American Tree's are worth more

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    Giving loggers their due. They and crabbers have dangerous jobs. No doubt about it. But how many of them go to work thinking they will run towards a situation everyone is running from? Fire, Haz-Mat, building collapse, et al.

    That is where the comparison falls apart. When they do have something (except crabbers) happen that exceeds their ability to respond they call us.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

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    Quote Originally Posted by CALFFBOU View Post
    Why?

    The stats. and numbers come from insurance companies final year end tallys. BUT MOST PAID FIRE DEPARTMENTS ARE SELF INSURED. So our #s dont get transmited to the final reports. And the Volunteer Firefighters are covered by a private insurance company and its up to that particular comp. to forward their #s as well.
    Good point Bou.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

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    Quote Originally Posted by CALFFBOU View Post
    On note I have to address here. Every time I hear that "Firefighters jobs are not in the BOL top 15 dangerous jobs..." I want to f-ing punch someone.

    Why?

    The stats. and numbers come from insurance companies final year end tallys. BUT MOST PAID FIRE DEPARTMENTS ARE SELF INSURED. So our #s dont get transmited to the final reports. And the Volunteer Firefighters are covered by a private insurance company and its up to that particular comp. to forward their #s as well.

    I hate people like Mr. Lacy that will twist a certain subject to fit blurred view.
    This would be a good argument, if it were factual. But it is not.

    The Bureau of Labor Statistics creates this annual report based on a document called the Census of Fatal Occupational Injuries (CFOI). One of the data sources used in the creation of this document is the records of worker's comp insurers. But that is not the only, or even chief, data source. The CFOI also looks at death certificates and reports to federal and state agencies for example. And even departments that self insure have to report deaths, injuries, and occupational diseases. And dead firefighters have death certificates just like everyone else.

    Injuries and illnesses are a little more difficult to track and account for. The tool the BLS uses is the Survey of Occupational Injuries and Illnesses (SOII). As the name suggests, this is a survey. Specifically, it is a random sample of 250,000 workplaces each year. While the statistical basis for this survey is sound, it is still a survey, and not a report of ALL illnesses and injuries.

    Do I mean to suggest that the news stories are correct in not placing firefighting in the list of most dangerous jobs? No, not exactly. Those stories generally refer to the annual BLS report. And that report is ONLY about fatalities, not long-term chronic illness.

    You can fact-check this yourself. We are very aware of the number of LODDs, right? Well, in 2005, the death rate per 100,000 loggers was 92. And we know that the firefighting LODD rate was not (thank God) close to that.

    None of this is to suggest that Lacy isn't a tool.

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    My question is then- Why are the "Most Dangerous Jobs" always private industry? And why do the reports always come out after the new calendar years when the tallys are made?

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    Quote Originally Posted by CALFFBOU View Post
    My question is then- Why are the "Most Dangerous Jobs" always private industry?
    I don't know. Maybe they really are the most dangerous? Any employee of a public entity is likely to have greater workplace protections than, for example, a self-employed logger.

    And why do the reports always come out after the new calendar years when the tallys are made?
    They don't. The BLS report is released every year in August.
    Last edited by randsc; 05-09-2007 at 01:48 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by randsc View Post
    This would be a good argument, if it were factual. But it is not.

    The Bureau of Labor Statistics creates this annual report based on a document called the Census of Fatal Occupational Injuries (CFOI). One of the data sources used in the creation of this document is the records of worker's comp insurers. But that is not the only, or even chief, data source. The CFOI also looks at death certificates and reports to federal and state agencies for example. And even departments that self insure have to report deaths, injuries, and occupational diseases. And dead firefighters have death certificates just like everyone else.
    Even at that the results would still be taineted in another way. it is true they pull many sources including death certificates, but.......

    If the death is from a Vollie then the death certificate is not necessarily correct. True it will list the manner of death but in the little known section on the death certificate or workers compensation form for the occupation of the deceased it is not listed as firefighter for volunteers. Since volunteers have other jobs and carreers that is their actual occupation then that is what is listed. Mine for instance would be IT Analyst. It would be an odd listing to see someone who works in IT on the BOL list.

    What should prevail in these matters is peoples common sense, which there is a severe lack of in our country. I was in graduate school when I met a girl who was 23 years old and never had even met a fireman before. The important thing is that no matter what a report says or a so called journalist says we know, our families know and our friends know the dangers of firefighting and we should always stay aware and never become complacent in our duties.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cappy05 View Post
    What should prevail in these matters is peoples common sense, which there is a severe lack of in our country. I was in graduate school when I met a girl who was 23 years old and never had even met a fireman before. The important thing is that no matter what a report says or a so called journalist says we know, our families know and our friends know the dangers of firefighting and we should always stay aware and never become complacent in our duties.
    Good point. We need to keep this perspective when folks who have never had to worry about a decision more significant than properly conjugating verbs are attacking our profession.
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    I wasnt insulting lumberjacks because i know their job is dangerous. But, what I was refering to... was that their job is relatively the same thing... day after day. You cut down trees.

    Same with crab fisherman. You watch dangerous catch and see what they go through. Its a VERY Dangerous job.

    But, how can running into burning buildings, collapsed buildings, haz-mat situations not be anymore dangerous than that?

    Same with cops. Shoot-outs and such.

    The only problem is that, there are a lot of towns where that just doesnt happen. But, a LAPD Cop and a Houston Cop and a NY Cop... they face a lot more danger than smalltown, Oklahoma. Same with FDNY, LAFD, HFD... they face a lot more danger than small town backdoor FD.

    Yet, they are all lumped in together.

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    We citizens/bosses do appreciate the service our Rancho Cucamonga firefighters render, but their job is no more important than our other public servants' service in our city.

    Yup, I LOVE that one.

    Any Twinkie can throw garbage in a truck, or scratch out a ticket (meter maids), not our Brothers in Blue

    It takes little training to work in DPW, or facilities maintinence, but it takes over a year of training for us just to have an inkling of a clue about the vast information that is out there for us.
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    Quote Originally Posted by JHR1985 View Post
    Same with crab fisherman. You watch dangerous catch and see what they go through. Its a VERY Dangerous job.
    Crab fishing is a very dangerous job, but nobody will die tomorrow if they don't get to eat crab. Even on that show, there are times when they call it quits because it is too dangerous. As I've watched that show in the past, I've often thought that some of the risk they take far outweighs the benefit.

    Comparing firefighting to crab fishing (or lumberjacking) is not a fair comparison. After all, it's comparing protecting lives and property to fishing. Apples to oranges.

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    You know, I try to make it in laymen terms so that people can understand but I guess either no one reads my complete posts or the words are too big.

    Notice how I said crab fishing is dangerous... but did I ever say its more dangerous than firefighting? How about being a lumberjack? Did I ever say it wasnt dangerous? No, I said it wasnt as dangerous as compared to firefighting with all the risks involved.

    This thread is about A: why this guy thinks Firefighting isnt dangerous and B: it moved on to how Firefighting isnt in the top 15 dangerous jobs.

    I have been trying to point out how that, both crab fishing and a lumberjack, while they have extremely dangerous jobs... their job is relatively the same. They got out fishing and they cut down tree's.

    As firefighters, our job is never the same. Be it an EMS call, a haz-mat, or a fire.... everything is different. We have to know all this infomation on building construction, building materials, hat-mat recognition and crap....

    Before you jump to conclusions read the damn posts.
    Last edited by JHR1985; 05-10-2007 at 02:04 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JHR1985 View Post
    You know, I try to make it in laymen terms so that people can understand but I guess either no one reads my complete posts or the words are too big.

    Notice how I said crab fishing is dangerous... but did I ever say its more dangerous than firefighting? How about being a lumberjack? Did I ever say it wasnt dangerous? No, I said it wasnt as dangerous as compared to firefighting with all the risks involved.

    This thread is about A: why this guy thinks Firefighting isnt dangerous and B: it moved on to how Firefighting isnt in the top 15 dangerous jobs.

    I have been trying to point out how that, both crab fishing and a lumberjack, while they have extremely dangerous jobs... their job is relatively the same. They got out fishing and they cut down tree's.

    As firefighters, our job is never the same. Be it an EMS call, a haz-mat, or a fire.... everything is different. We have to know all this infomation on building construction, building materials, hat-mat recognition and crap....

    Before you jump to conclusions read the damn posts.

    I understood what you were saying from your first post. And you are right in what you are saying. I understand that as firefighters we have to constantly train and adapt to changing building design/codes to sucessively win the battle on fires and other emergency situations. I am not going to say which job is "more" dangerous. But lumberjacks, crab fisherman, and others have to train to know how to avoid or reduce the risk of injuries or death, the same as firefighting. The only thing with firefighting is we will have to possibly make that extra push to save someones life. Where the other professions, if the conditions get to rough, can stop what they are doing and come back another day. This does not mean in their professions, as ours, that sometimes, ***** just goes bad.

    T.J.

  23. #23
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    Post Ok................

    I extinguished two fully involved lumberjacks and a crabber today...........

    I always thought that the most dangerous job was a Liquor Store Clerk. I don't know the amount of store clerks that are involved as victims in Holdups, etc., but it must be a large number.
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    Quote Originally Posted by JHR1985 View Post
    How about being a lumberjack? Did I ever say it wasnt dangerous? No, I said it wasnt as dangerous as compared to firefighting with all the risks involved.
    In 2005, approx. 80 logging workers were killed out of fewer than 100,000 nationwide. In the same year, 106 firefighters died out of more than 1,000,000 nationwide. What we do is dangerous... But given those numbers, I like my odds.

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    To me. all this drama about making sure firefighting is listed among the most dangerous jobs has an unseemly, "Mine are bigger than yours" feeling to it.

    Firefighting is plenty dangerous. Why does it diminish you if there are other jobs even more dangerous?

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