1. #1
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    Default need new gear, got any suggestions?

    my gear has a a burn straight through it and according to NFPA it isn't safe to wear. so these are my options(in link form)

    http://www.globefiresuits.com/cairns...on/pants.asp#1 -cairns
    reaxtion

    http://www.thefirestore.com/store/pr...kevlar_yellow/

    Fire-Dex Express Assault Pant, P84/Kevlar, Yellow


    http://www.thefirestore.com/store/pr...s_gold_fusion/
    Janesville: Super Deluxe TFS, Turnout Pants, Gold Fusion

    http://www.thefirestore.com/store/pr...pants_natural/
    Janesville: V-Force TFS, Turnout Pants, Natural

    i particularly like the Globe due to it performance, but the dept. might not order it so these are the ones they are going to order, even the globe for some strange reason

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    I've always liked globe gear. Probably because it's the only gear I've ever used. But none the less that would be my choice
    If someone with multiple personalities threatens to kill himself, is it considered a hostage situation?

    Ryan

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    If your gear is unsafe, your department should give you another set of gear.
    Do a little dance, make a little rum, Italian Ice! Italian Ice!

    Actual lyric: Do a little dance, make a little love, get down tonight, get down tonight.
    (KC & The Sunshine Band "Do A Little Dance")

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    Quote Originally Posted by tbonetrexler View Post
    If your gear is unsafe, your department should give you another set of gear.
    Took the words right out of my mouth.
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    Quote Originally Posted by RFRDxplorer View Post
    Took the words right out of my mouth.
    Mmhmm. Same here.
    Janvier Volunteer Fire Company
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    Quote Originally Posted by fortythreetwo View Post
    Mmhmm. Same here.
    indeed... u shouldnt have to buy ur own gear...

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    I think his dept is buying his gear. He just has those choices to choose from and is asking opinions on the different types. Thats what I'm gettin out of it. If he has to go buy his own stuff thats definately not on what so ever
    If someone with multiple personalities threatens to kill himself, is it considered a hostage situation?

    Ryan

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    Well hot damn.............

    Our department has Janesville, I'm not sure what style it is, but I am pretty sure that it is the natural colored nomex and it has orange reflective striping. I think that it looks pretty damn good, but I may be biased.

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    I have a couple of questions for you:

    1. How did an Explorer get close enough to heat to have a burn going down the middle of it?

    2. Since you are an explorer you should not be anywhere near the hot zone, which leads me to believe your gear should never be exposed to any real heat, so why would it need to be NFPA compliant??


    Jon
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    Quote Originally Posted by sfdffemt17 View Post
    I have a couple of questions for you:

    1. How did an Explorer get close enough to heat to have a burn going down the middle of it?

    2. Since you are an explorer you should not be anywhere near the hot zone, which leads me to believe your gear should never be exposed to any real heat, so why would it need to be NFPA compliant??


    Jon
    ya know.. it was probably old hand me down gear.

    -Damien

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    Quote Originally Posted by sfdffemt17 View Post
    I have a couple of questions for you:

    1. How did an Explorer get close enough to heat to have a burn going down the middle of it?

    2. Since you are an explorer you should not be anywhere near the hot zone, which leads me to believe your gear should never be exposed to any real heat, so why would it need to be NFPA compliant??
    at least I wasn't the only one thinking these things.....
    If my basic HazMat training has taught me nothing else, it's that if you see a glowing green monkey running away from something, follow that monkey!

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    Quote Originally Posted by DrParasite View Post
    at least I wasn't the only one thinking these things.....
    Nope.

    Given that 14 y/o's don't do interior structural firefighting, compliance with NFPA interior structural firefighting gear standards is moot...
    "Nemo Plus Voluptatis Quam Nos Habant"

    The Code is more what you'd call "guidelines" than actual rules.

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    Hopefully I don't start some huge debate but... though we may not be doing any interior work or anything else it looks better for the department if all the persons more or less look like they are not a rag tag bunch of under funded firefighters. Or at least that is what I would think if I saw a firefighter or explorer, though most people don't know how to tell the difference, standing around with torn burnt gear. Plus if something bad happened like an explosion or something it could better protect the explorer. I if I recall correctly LFL (learning for life) requires adequate gear for the participants.

    I may not be correct about of this (at least the explosion part) so please tell me if I am wrong. It is mainly what I think. Anyways occationaly the advisers can cut the tape and do a live burn.
    "...We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
    For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
    Shall be my brother;..." - King Henry V - Shakespeare

    Quote Originally Posted by Catch22 View Post
    It's not the brightest thing to come into a topic and try to provoke a bunch of guys/gals with more time on the firehouse crapper than you do in the firehouse.
    "crispitycrunchitypeanutbuttery t0ast" - DFurtman

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    If I was the explorer, and not doing "Hot" work, I would want the weathered hand me down gear.


    Cause they probably won't get it worn in like that on thier own. But if they want to stand around the scene looking like the jr that they are.
    Never argue with an Idiot. They drag you down to their level, and then beat you with experience!

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    Quote Originally Posted by t0asty View Post
    if I recall correctly LFL (learning for life) requires adequate gear for the participants.

    I may not be correct about of this (at least the explosion part) so please tell me if I am wrong. It is mainly what I think. Anyways occationaly the advisers can cut the tape and do a live burn.


    On one hand you are preaching that LFL requires adequate gear, but on the other hand you are admitting that the advisors "sometimes" are able to do live burns. Buddy, you are either with LFL or against them, but do not try and use them to your advantage when you want adequate gear, but shun them when the fun stuff like live burns comes into play. The bottom line is explorers should not be placed into any dangerous situations therefore thier gear does not need to be NFPA compliant as the NFPA relates to heat exposure requirements. As far as "if" there was an explosion...well if there was even a remote chance of that, than the explorers ought to be staged far far away, that is why it is called the cool zone.

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    I was just commenting on the rules the LFL, from what I remember. And the fact that some posts do live burns which LFL allows.

    Not to start a ****ing match. But... if we don't need NFPA compliant equipment, they might as well issue us the construction helmets and tell us to come in jeans and a sturdy jacket.
    No we should not be placed in dangerous situations but we should have proper equipment. Not saying we need new gear but proper equipment. That's all.

    LFL rules: http://www.learning-for-life.org/exp...ire/index.html
    Last edited by t0asty; 05-16-2007 at 04:01 AM.
    "...We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
    For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
    Shall be my brother;..." - King Henry V - Shakespeare

    Quote Originally Posted by Catch22 View Post
    It's not the brightest thing to come into a topic and try to provoke a bunch of guys/gals with more time on the firehouse crapper than you do in the firehouse.
    "crispitycrunchitypeanutbuttery t0ast" - DFurtman

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    In my opinion explorer or not if you are on a fire truck or at a fire scene every member should have NFPA certified gear. If you do not you are just asking for trouble. And when I was an explorer I didnít have new gear but my gear was NFPA. And with the limited staffing that we had and trucks being a long way out I may have made entry into fires before I turned 18. I already had fire I and II and had been on my department for a while. Also we have explorer fire school where with signed permission slips explorers do live burns along with other live fire evolutions. I have helped instructed these live burns and I would not let an explorer in the burn tower if his gear was not NFPA. Sorry if people donít agree with me but why not get some of the firefighters new gear and give the explorers hand me downs that still meet NFPA.

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    Quote Originally Posted by t0asty View Post
    Not to start a ****ing match. But... if we don't need NFPA compliant equipment, they might as well issue us the construction helmets and tell us to come in jeans and a sturdy jacket.
    No we should not be placed in dangerous situations but we should have proper equipment. Not saying we need new gear but proper equipment. That's all.

    Construction Hats and jeans is fine with me, I agree that LFL does allow live burns under certain controlled environments, with that being said each youth does not need 1500 dollars worth of gear, each post should have a couple of sets for these evolutions, or if the department is financially able, than all the youth should have the gear. But to have a post or department purchasing new equipment for an explorer when there are small volunteer departments out there with old tattered gear is wrong. Again, though for general explorer stuff, including rehab and whatever else they are legally able to do at a fire call your right, jeans, and a safety vest would be sufficient.


    Quote Originally Posted by giweff View Post
    And with the limited staffing that we had and trucks being a long way out I may have made entry into fires before I turned 18. I already had fire I and II and had been on my department for a while.
    This is CRAP...you "might have" made entry into a burning building prior to being 18??? This is the exact problem with the whole issue, and creates the gray area that dominates the whole Chris Kangas issue. If you truly entered an IDLH environment prior to being 18, than shame on you, same on your OIC and shame on your department, they ought to be brought up on charges.
    Jon
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    This is CRAP...you "might have" made entry into a burning building prior to being 18??? This is the exact problem with the whole issue, and creates the gray area that dominates the whole Chris Kangas issue. If you truly entered an IDLH environment prior to being 18, than shame on you, same on your OIC and shame on your department, they ought to be brought up on charges.
    I agree with you. BUT, only if it was while with his department. I carry my turnouts in my car, if I happen to come across a house fire while I'm out and about, you can bet the farm that I will at least make an attempt....an ATTEMPT, to try a search. Especially if there were reports of people still inside. Sure I don't have an SCBA (well occasionally I do, if I'm going to or from training or have some kind of drill in the next day or two) but I would sure as hell try.

    If you want to debate that, dig up the thread from last year about it and post it there.

    But, if he is responding to a call with his department and he goes interior, there is your problem.

    Giewff, mind elaborating on the situation?
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    that's the good samaratin(sp?) in all of us. we see a situation like a house on fire with someone trapped, and 90% of people will try and do something to help, whether its searching for them, getting a garden hose, or something. it just happens that you happen to have fire gear with you, and have some training in the wonderful field of firefighting. so you stand a better chance at succeeding in finding and helping the person.

    but in a case like that, it's not like you responded with the FD, you were on your own. you should get treated like anyone else who ran into the building to help, regardless of you being a jr. or explorer and being under the laws not to.


    and i agree about the whole responding in with the FD and going inside, then you're on the FDs accountablilty, and under those laws.

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    Default sfdffemt17

    sfdffemt17 I donít agree that my former dept should be brought up on charges b/c I made entry into a fire. First off I was less than two months away from being 18 and I was FF I and FF II. Had been on my department for four years. It was three in the morning and the next in truck was on another call. We had me and two other people on the truck. The engineer did not have gear. Working basement fire with possible people trapped on the first floor. The OIC made a choice and I followed him so I believe we did what had to be done. Sorry if you donít agree with it or not. But if you really donít want explorers or Jr's in any type of IDLH environment than the you men and woman ďI wont call them kids b/c they are notĒ should not be on the fire trucks going to calls you have more of a chance of dieing going to a fire than inside a fire building. It is not like this is a common practice but it may happen from time to time I do not see it as a big deal specially if there is a life in danger.

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    lets look at this one step at a time, ok?
    Quote Originally Posted by giweff View Post
    sfdffemt17 I donít agree that my former dept should be brought up on charges b/c I made entry into a fire.
    ehhhh, I wouldn't be broadcasting that around.
    Quote Originally Posted by giweff View Post
    First off I was less than two months away from being 18 and I was FF I and FF II.
    I don't care if you were two days from turning 18. you were under age. further, when I took FFI and FFII we had to do live fire training in a burn building. and you need to be 18 to participate in those. So unless your training was different than the national standard, or your training academy needs to be investigated on charges of child endangerment, something just doesn't add up.
    Quote Originally Posted by giweff View Post
    Had been on my department for four years.
    good, you are an experienced and knowledgeable junior, and when you turn 18 you will be a valuable asset to the department.
    Quote Originally Posted by giweff View Post
    It was three in the morning and the next in truck was on another call.
    so then you call the 3rd in truck. completely irrelevant.
    Quote Originally Posted by giweff View Post
    We had me and two other people on the truck. The engineer did not have gear.
    well, that alone is two issues. first off, two people on a line isn't too unreasonable. further, the engineer should ALWAYS have his gear with him. he shouldn't be going inside (then who is going to run the pump panel??)
    Quote Originally Posted by giweff View Post
    Working basement fire with possible people trapped on the first floor.
    ah yes. so you think one of the most dangerous fires for firefighters to fight is where a junior belongs? sorry, but you won't EVER convince me of that one.
    Quote Originally Posted by giweff View Post
    The OIC made a choice and I followed him so I believe we did what had to be done.
    and if i was you, I probably would have done it too. doesn't make it right at all.
    Quote Originally Posted by giweff View Post
    Sorry if you donít agree with it or not. But if you really donít want explorers or Jr's in any type of IDLH environment than the you men and woman ďI wont call them kids b/c they are notĒ should not be on the fire trucks going to calls you have more of a chance of dieing going to a fire than inside a fire building.
    hmmm, working basement fire, what should a junior do? how about wrap the hydrant, connect to the hydrant, charge the hydrant, run back to the truck, assist in flaking out of hose, maybe even horizontally ventilating and trying to see if they can assist any trapped people in self rescue? just off the top of my head? but being on the attack line? I don't think so.
    Quote Originally Posted by giweff View Post
    It is not like this is a common practice but it may happen from time to time I do not see it as a big deal specially if there is a life in danger.
    it's a very big deal. until you turn 18 and become a non-junior firefighter, you are limited in what you can do. and entering a working basement fire is pretty much miles away from what is even remotely considered acceptable.
    If my basic HazMat training has taught me nothing else, it's that if you see a glowing green monkey running away from something, follow that monkey!

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    DrParasite I donít know how to put the quotes in like you did I need to learn how to do that. No body was at the windows and it was a no water area we were on a pumper tanker. I did flake out the line. We vented the windows and darkened down the fire through the window. We did a rapid primary search of the floor above the fire found nothing. Then evacuated the building and hit the fire from the outside until the second in truck got there. And I was allowed to do live burns as long as my parentís signed a permission slips for my ff I and II. We had a full first alarm coming in we just had a long time to wait for the next in truck with dispatch saying possible people trapped. The engineer would have went in but he do to unfortunate circumstances he didnít have his gear long storry. And if he did go in all the explorers are trained after being there a couple years how to pump trucks. So I would have pumped the truck until someone else made it to the scene to take over. I am not saying it is a common thing and I am not saying it is a good thing nor was I bragging about it. If you read my original post I was just saying I think explorers and Jr's if they are doing anything fire related training on calls etc. They should have NFPA certified gear. Not that they should be allow to go into burning structures or put in danger I am sorry if you miss understood what I have said.

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    Quote Originally Posted by giweff View Post
    DrParasite I donít know how to put the quotes in like you did I need to learn how to do that. No body was at the windows and it was a no water area we were on a pumper tanker. I did flake out the line. We vented the windows and darkened down the fire through the window. We did a rapid primary search of the floor above the fire found nothing. Then evacuated the building and hit the fire from the outside until the second in truck got there. And I was allowed to do live burns as long as my parentís signed a permission slips for my ff I and II. We had a full first alarm coming in we just had a long time to wait for the next in truck with dispatch saying possible people trapped. The engineer would have went in but he do to unfortunate circumstances he didnít have his gear long storry. And if he did go in all the explorers are trained after being there a couple years how to pump trucks. So I would have pumped the truck until someone else made it to the scene to take over. I am not saying it is a common thing and I am not saying it is a good thing nor was I bragging about it. If you read my original post I was just saying I think explorers and Jr's if they are doing anything fire related training on calls etc. They should have NFPA certified gear. Not that they should be allow to go into burning structures or put in danger I am sorry if you miss understood what I have said.
    Regardless of what circumstances were there, you and your officers and senior members broke a child labor law none the less, and IMHO they should hang for that. No situation whatsoever, even if people are trapped, should allow you to go into a house, even if you were 2 days away from 18. I support Junior programs 110%, hell I was one at one time, but I do not support depts that allow this sort of stuff to take place.


    Your trying to cover things up by saying you were 2 months away from being 18 and having FF1 & 2 would be the same as me going out, getting drunk as an 18 year old, smashing some stuff up, getting arrested but then trying to make it all ok by saying well I'm almost 19. Sorry bud but it don't work. In the end it's all ILLEGAL!
    If someone with multiple personalities threatens to kill himself, is it considered a hostage situation?

    Ryan

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    Quote Originally Posted by t0asty View Post
    Hopefully I don't start some huge debate but... though we may not be doing any interior work or anything else it looks better for the department if all the persons more or less look like they are not a rag tag bunch of under funded firefighters. Or at least that is what I would think if I saw a firefighter or explorer, though most people don't know how to tell the difference, standing around with torn burnt gear. Plus if something bad happened like an explosion or something it could better protect the explorer. I if I recall correctly LFL (learning for life) requires adequate gear for the participants.

    I may not be correct about of this (at least the explosion part) so please tell me if I am wrong. It is mainly what I think. Anyways occationaly the advisers can cut the tape and do a live burn.


    If you get hit by an explosion like a backdraft or something you have far more problems then a rip in your coat.


    other then a bomb this is the only type of explosion i could see occuring

    http://youtube.com/watch?v=t1_u-eAq5...elated&search=

    im not trying to take your example seriously but the point i am making is that it is rediculous for an explorer to recieve brand new 2000 dollar gear that they have no true need for. If anything give it to a firefighter who goes on the most calls and could really use it.

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