1. #1
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    Default First in Eng. Co, First in Truck Co. WWYD?

    I took these right from the front page story from here at FH.com. You only get an A/B view, but from what you got, what is your strategy, and why?
    Heres the background....
    This fire took place Monday May 14. You and your mutual aid Dept. are dispatched for a reported structure fire.
    Upon arrival, the crew from Engine 1411 said flames were shooting from the garage that had also engulfed a vehicle in the driveway. Initial reports were that a woman may be trapped in the house.
    You are on the first in Truck Co., or the first in Engine Co. What are your actions?
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    Call For Help.......
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    Take comp time, real quick?

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    In a perfert world I arrive with 4 on an engine and the truck right behind me. I would have 1 FF take a 2 1/2 and knock down the fire from the front while my other FF and I set up to go interior. order the truck to start a search.

    If this was my station's first in it's me driving and my Lt. I would pull the preconnect set the pump and get ready for a offensive attack. next in take command and secure water supply. I would once making entry fight fire most of that house seems to be tendable. and if I can get a quick knock down I will eliminate any problems and be able to search with out the fire gaining anymore headway.
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    First in engine deck gun the garage while pulling lines off first line inside the front door with the truck to check for extension on both floors and the second line to hot the hot spots in the garage after the burning products of combustion {SMOKE} is knocked out. Look carefully all that really appears to be burning out of the garage is just smoke and the rest of the house that's visable still appears to be intact. Just my thoughts.

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    no no no there is absolutly no need for the deck gun. you will blow your waud to fast with no real benifit and end up sitting there with your thumb up your ***** waiting for a water supply to be established.
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    Not at all. just about 10 seconds of water at about 100 psi. Remember break up the BTU's and the fire goes out and with smoke it's not to hard to do that. Question for everyone that's going to read this DOES EVERYONE THINK JUST BECAUSE YOU'RE GOING TO USE THE DECK GUN YOU HAVE TO USE ALL THE TANK WATER? this is not a defensive fire it's a part of an aggressive offensive attack.

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    i really think it is a waste of time. there isn't that much fire that either a 1 3/4 or 2 1/2 wont knock down. I tend to think that deck guns are for defensive fires only. you wast alot of water just getting it up to pressure and aimed into the garage.
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    Everyone's entittled to their own opinions and what may work for your department may not work for mine and vise versa, the point of all of this is to pass on each others knowledge so that everyone goes homes after each response. Stay safe brother.

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    I agree the deck gun would not be a good choice for this fire. Assuming its myself and a crew of 4 in the back, I'd have two guys pull the 2 1/2 and put that to the garage, then have the other two take an 1 3/4 in the front door. First arriving truck company would conduct the search.
    NJ FFII/EMT-B

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    T61 your right everyone has there own ideas and what will work for you dept. I was simply trying to explain why I would not use the deck gun
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    I understand completely. Although I do have a question when you guys are arriving with a 4 man company and you say put 2 guys on a 2 1/2 and 2 guys inside with a 1 3/4 who's operating the pump?

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    I would only have one on the 2 1/2 you dont need 2 to flow it if you lay it out with a good 20 feet behind you straight and a hose strap. i'm a pretty small guy and i can do this
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    3 man engine - Pull the preconnected 1 3/4" and enter the structure from the front door. Attack the fire from the interior of the house - foam?

    1st Due Ladder - Search (Cars in the garage, cars in the driveway) If occupant meets us at front door and confirms accountability for everyone, probably have them pull another line and attack from the same position.

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    We'd do pretty much like it looks they did in the picture. Truck crew enters and searches. Engine company brings a line inside and attacks from inside.

    No, we would not hit this from outside to darken it down and we would definitely not be using a deck gun.

    I'd hate to think the door from the garage into the house is open/burned through and we're outside pushing all the crap into the house where the victim may have been alive.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

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    [QUOTE=Bones42;811359] I'd hate to think the door from the garage into the house is open/burned through and we're outside pushing all the crap into the house where the victim may have been alive.[/QUOTE]

    What a shame the "Myth of the Unburned Side" lives on.

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    See the below post! LOL
    I believe them bones are me. Some say we are born into the grave. I feel so alone, gonna end up a big ol' pile a them bones

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    Quote Originally Posted by BScott View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Bones42 View Post
    I'd hate to think the door from the garage into the house is open/burned through and we're outside pushing all the crap into the house where the victim may have been alive.
    What a shame the "Myth of the Unburned Side" lives on.
    Can you expand upon your post slightly. This can be interpreted two different ways.
    I believe them bones are me. Some say we are born into the grave. I feel so alone, gonna end up a big ol' pile a them bones

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    [QUOTE=BScott;811377]
    Quote Originally Posted by Bones42 View Post
    I'd hate to think the door from the garage into the house is open/burned through and we're outside pushing all the crap into the house where the victim may have been alive.[/QUOTE
    Quote Originally Posted by Bones42 View Post
    ]

    What a shame the "Myth of the Unburned Side" lives on.
    Not sure where you are going with this...but have you ever been inside a building where some jackass decides to operate a line from the exterior? It can turn a hairy situation into a completely untenable one in a matter of a few seconds. Has absolutely nothing to do with burned/unburned.

    Even if the door was closed. Say the victim smelled smoke, went downstairs to investigate, opened the interior door to the garage, took one big "oh sh*t" breath and dropped right there, but managed to close the door as he was falling? The door might hold, until you go and blow it open, and push the fire right onto the poor bastard.

    If you really think that its a myth that a deck gun, or any line for that matter, cant push fire around and turn a good idea bad really quickly, try it next time you are in a fire. Have some yahoo open a line through a window while you are operating inside. The myth will be no more.
    Proud East Coast Traditionalist.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TRUCK61 View Post
    I understand completely. Although I do have a question when you guys are arriving with a 4 man company and you say put 2 guys on a 2 1/2 and 2 guys inside with a 1 3/4 who's operating the pump?
    the driver
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    Quote Originally Posted by TRUCK61 View Post
    Not at all. just about 10 seconds of water at about 100 psi. Remember break up the BTU's and the fire goes out and with smoke it's not to hard to do that. Question for everyone that's going to read this DOES EVERYONE THINK JUST BECAUSE YOU'RE GOING TO USE THE DECK GUN YOU HAVE TO USE ALL THE TANK WATER? this is not a defensive fire it's a part of an aggressive offensive attack.
    In a situation like this, it isnt all about BTUs and putting out the fire. Especially if there is a chance there are victims still inside. The first hoseline has to protect the areas of egress that the victim might use, or had attempted to use before being overcome with smoke. More importantly, the hoseline has to protect the firefighters who are entering that first floor and conducting a search. If the door to the garage lets go as the search team its making its way upstairs, its time to dry clean your uniform, because we are probably going to a funeral.
    Proud East Coast Traditionalist.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FDAIC485 View Post
    Can you expand upon your post slightly. This can be interpreted two different ways.
    Sure. If a solid stream is used with adequate flow (in this case min 300gpm) the fire will be quickly knocked down with very little danger of "pushing" fire into uninvolved areas. Therefore the maxim you must attack from the unburned side is a myth.

    IMO those brothers who are advocating a 2 1/2" line in the driveway or deck gun for 10-20 seconds for a quick and hard knock down followed by a 1 3/4" line into the front door are correct.

    In the 30-90 seconds it would take for the advancing interior company to mask up at the front door and make their way into the home, locate the garage door and begin flowing water (probably at a lower flow BTW), the 2 1/2" line in the drive way would have the fire easily knocked thus eliminating much more quickly and effectively the most paramount life safety issue. (Especially to those in the bedrooms above the garage which are at much greater risk.)

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    Quote Originally Posted by BScott View Post
    Sure. If a solid stream is used with adequate flow (in this case min 300gpm) the fire will be quickly knocked down with very little danger of "pushing" fire into uninvolved areas. Therefore the maxim you must attack from the unburned side is a myth.

    IMO those brothers who are advocating a 2 1/2" line in the driveway or deck gun for 10-20 seconds for a quick and hard knock down followed by a 1 3/4" line into the front door are correct.

    In the 30-90 seconds it would take for the advancing interior company to mask up at the front door and make their way into the home, locate the garage door and begin flowing water (probably at a lower flow BTW), the 2 1/2" line in the drive way would have the fire easily knocked thus eliminating much more quickly and effectively the most paramount life safety issue. (Especially to those in the bedrooms above the garage which are at much greater risk.)
    Bones never said anything about attacking from the unburned side. He said attack it from the INSIDE, where you are protecting the rest of the house, any potential victims, and US doing a search. If you really dont believe that the deck gun will push the fire around, especially with an open door to the living space, like I suggested, try it next time you get the chance. At best, you get a horrible steam bath.
    Proud East Coast Traditionalist.

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    First in engine entry through front door, advance to fire from the inside, attack with an 1 3/4. The fire has a huge venting area and if you go from the unburned side on an interior attack, you can find any victims that might be in the uninvolved areas. Another two lines will be required, at least because one need to get to the second floor quickly, but the main body of fire is probably in the garage. An 1 3/4 with enough pressure can flow 230 through a fog nozzle. That's going to be enough to handle this fire. There is no need to hit it first from the outside.

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