Question Period

[MalahatTwo7]

Scenario: Its a bawlmy 78dF, winds are from where ever they are from, because they dont measure into this scene. Its just coming on to the noon hour, and your counterpart in the cubical next to you says "Urrrmmmm.... Damn. EErrrgggg...."

So you call back, "Hey. You alright over there?"

Answer, "Ahhh. Ya. Just feels like someone just hit me in the chest with a 2x4."

Well now you know that no one has been seen to be carrying any 2x4's around the office recently so you know this isnt a strictly true statement. So ya peek around the cabinet and see your cell mate doubled over in his chair, face deep red going almost purple. So you ask the obvious question again, "You sure you're alright? You dont look too good."

"Ya.... I'm fine. Happens once in a while. First time I thought I was hav'n the Big One, scared the P!$$ out of me."

"You had anyone check this out yet?"

"Yep. Been give one of them ECG things ... but they didnt find anything."

Immediate known resources:

1) you are a locally certified EMT(B)

2) you possess in your pockets a disposable pocket mask and gloves (not much use in this situation)

3) in the office next door there is a certified military paramedic, with unspecified emergency gear available (but he has just disappeared with his wife for lunch, locn unknonw; however is known to take lunch in cafeteria below)

4) the Security Desk has unspecified resources.

So.... what would you do?

[nyckftbl]

Scenario: Its a bawlmy 78dF, winds are from where ever they are from, because they dont measure into this scene. Its just coming on to the noon hour, and your counterpart in the cubical next to you says "Urrrmmmm.... Damn. EErrrgggg...."

So you call back, "Hey. You alright over there?"

Answer, "Ahhh. Ya. Just feels like someone just hit me in the chest with a 2x4."

Well now you know that no one has been seen to be carrying any 2x4's around the office recently so you know this isnt a strictly true statement. So ya peek around the cabinet and see your cell mate doubled over in his chair, face deep red going almost purple. So you ask the obvious question again, "You sure you're alright? You dont look too good."

"Ya.... I'm fine. Happens once in a while. First time I thought I was hav'n the Big One, scared the P!$$ out of me."

"You had anyone check this out yet?"

"Yep. Been give one of them ECG things ... but they didnt find anything."

Immediate known resources:

1) you are a locally certified EMT(B)

2) you possess in your pockets a disposable pocket mask and gloves (not much use in this situation)

3) in the office next door there is a certified military paramedic, with unspecified emergency gear available (but he has just disappeared with his wife for lunch, locn unknonw; however is known to take lunch in cafeteria below)

4) the Security Desk has unspecified resources.

So.... what would you do?

Well since its close to noon....I would probably steal his lunch.

[MalahatTwo7]

*Thumps head on desk muttering "Shudda known... shudda known..... *

[BLSboy]

Well since its close to noon....I would probably steal his lunch.

x2......Im hungry, and theres scarcely a morsel of food to be seen.........

[voyager9]

Well since its close to noon....I would probably steal his lunch.

What if he was poisoned? I'd wait for prognosis, then snatch the grub once you know its safe.

[WaterbryVTfire]

take baseline vitals (Pulse/resp..) & call 911.

Things don't look so good.....

then I'd ask for his keyboard and mouse!!!

[BLSboy]

What if he was poisoned? I'd wait for prognosis, then snatch the grub once you know its safe.

OK, if lunch was eaten, lay off, until further info can be obtained, if not, fair game!

[voyager9]

OK, if lunch was eaten, lay off, until further info can be obtained, if not, fair game!

I've got dibs on the ring-dings!

[BLSboy]

I've got dibs on the ring-dings!

I want the sammich and chips!

[MalahatTwo7]

OK.. soo.. ignoring the Chow Hounds..... further investigation has provided the following:

1) the "onboard" Medic has been instructed "From Higher" that while he is a certified military paramedic, he is not to provide more than the very basic BLS support - air way adjuncts, stop the bleeding, call IX-I-I, and then stand back. He does not even carry O2 in his kit. Now if that is not a serious "OUCH" to a person..... ??

2) the nearest Engine/Rescue Squad is about 6 blocks up the road - they just happend to be located on the same street - coinky-dink? I think not. LOL

[gallagher4663]

OK.. soo.. ignoring the Chow Hounds..... further investigation has provided the following:

1) the "onboard" Medic has been instructed "From Higher" that while he is a certified military paramedic, he is not to provide more than the very basic BLS support - air way adjuncts, stop the bleeding, call IX-I-I, and then stand back. He does not even carry O2 in his kit. Now if that is not a serious "OUCH" to a person..... ??

2) the nearest Engine/Rescue Squad is about 6 blocks up the road - they just happend to be located on the same street - coinky-dink? I think not. LOL

Shouldn't this be posted in the EMS nerd section.

[DennisTheMenace]

Scenario: Its a bawlmy 78dF, winds are from where ever they are from, because they dont measure into this scene. Its just coming on to the noon hour, and your counterpart in the cubical next to you says "Urrrmmmm.... Damn. EErrrgggg...."

So you call back, "Hey. You alright over there?"

Answer, "Ahhh. Ya. Just feels like someone just hit me in the chest with a 2x4."

Well now you know that no one has been seen to be carrying any 2x4's around the office recently so you know this isnt a strictly true statement. So ya peek around the cabinet and see your cell mate doubled over in his chair, face deep red going almost purple. So you ask the obvious question again, "You sure you're alright? You dont look too good."

"Ya.... I'm fine. Happens once in a while. First time I thought I was hav'n the Big One, scared the P!$$ out of me."

"You had anyone check this out yet?"

"Yep. Been give one of them ECG things ... but they didnt find anything."

Immediate known resources:

1) you are a locally certified EMT(B)

2) you possess in your pockets a disposable pocket mask and gloves (not much use in this situation)

3) in the office next door there is a certified military paramedic, with unspecified emergency gear available (but he has just disappeared with his wife for lunch, locn unknonw; however is known to take lunch in cafeteria below)

4) the Security Desk has unspecified resources.

So.... what would you do?

So is this guy a productive government worker or a guy marking time until retirement? Will letting him die allow you to replace him with a younger cheaper and more productive worker or will his work load just be shifted to you? These are very important questions to ponder....

[FlyingRon]

take baseline vitals (Pulse/resp..) & call 911.

Things don't look so good.....

then I'd ask for his keyboard and mouse!!!

In the OPPOSITE ORDER.
You don't have the resources to deal with him at this point. Call for help first, then monitor and be ready for CPR if necessary.

[MalahatTwo7]

To answer your questions, Dennis, yes, he is productive, and yes, he is marking time till retirement. And ya, if he keels over, I inherit his work pile (which of course I assigned to him in the first place) He just arrived in Washington last fall, and also happens to be my subordinate too. Replacement will take several months at best.

Gallagher, I would have put this in there, except that the regular forums gets a "bigger read" than the EMS stuff.

Ron, yours was about the only true answer, and I discussed it with our Medic as well as my boss, and whether I like it or not, IX-II is about all that either of us are allowed to do. We do not have the resources available to us that would be carried most times, particularly by the Medic. As for how many people would actually be dialling IX-II (thats 911 for you less edjumicated types who dont remember Roman numerals ) would be fairly high - at least 4 or 5. But it would still take Engine 2 at least 5 or 6 min to get here, between the dispatch, driving/staging and security clearing times. I dont know who the closest Medic unit is - Engine 2/Rescue 1 dont have a medic car in house.

[JFDRookie]

Despite you being an EMT-B and your coworker being a Military Medic while you are at work you are not lawfully filling that role and working under medical direction, therefore you can only operate at the basic level. Call 911, get some baseline vitals make your pt. comfortable and obtain a hx. so the first arriving units can handle thier pt. more efficiently. All you can do. I would say the most important part is recognizing the need for 911 and calling instead of having an ego that you can do the job withought EMS assistance.

[MalahatTwo7]

JF, you are in fact correct on all points - as sad as that is to say. For me anyway, there is no ego to worry about - only doing or not doing as much as possible. I suppose I should add to the pot that I am a certified First Aid Instructor for the army, which grants me to use all knowledge and skills to the best of my ability, and the same goes for the Medic (he actually works in an office next door) because he is an army trained medic. And we are in full time employment to the army, so it would be in our scope of duties to provide. I am not 100% sure about this next point, but I suspect that if we were in a regular unit and just stood there and did nothing, there might be potential for a reprimand from Command bordering on a negligence charge, for not discharging our duty. As I say though, not quite sure about that and am not about to test the theory either. Just really sucks when you have the knowledge and skills, but no tools to work with.

So ya the end result is vitals, history (which I now know a bit about - as it may be tough to get when time requires) and comfort till the Calvary arrive, make my report then sit back and watch. Oh and wonder if it will be me, the SgtMajor or the Major who will make the call to his wife......

[JFDRookie]

Malahat,
I should have typed that better, I didnt mean you had an ego, just that some people in general tend to think we can do our jobs off duty without on duty personell I think you are right about negligence being brought up if you were at an army facility. If you are on duty you have a "duty to act" if you are off duty you do not, most states good samaritan laws will protect you if you do act, however only in a bls manner. It seems to be an issue of a legal duty to act versus an ethical one, and unfortunately the legal issues would trump the ethical ones when it would come to losing your license.

[MalahatTwo7]

JF, no offence was taken in any regard. And ya, the moral vs legal aspects are a real pain to say the least.

JUST PLAIN SUCKS!

[Stewart46]

On our airplane patch we have IDMT's and med techs that can do IV's and other paramedic/EMT-I type things that may not line up with NREMT levels. Since you are kind of under that same rules I am I would say it is up to your chief cook and bottle washer as to how they want to set things up. Our medical folks look at it like if they have been trained on it they can do it. At least that is the way I understand it. We have a very basic kit here in the shop which amounts to a pocket mask, AED and assorted bandages. We have the AED for our fitness program. I might have got someone to get an AED handy just in case you needed it.

If it were me I would handle it about the same as you did. SAMPLE ect. and monitor until help arrives post 911 call. Then pass off care to the next level. Since it is a coworker and you are an EMT as well I would see if they minded if you rode along and assisted/moral support for the ride to the hospital.

[MalahatTwo7]

Stewart, you about have the "right of it", and although we work in DC, and my EMT licence is from VA, I'm sure the medics would allow me to ride in with them, but I know I'd have to sit on my hands for the entire ride.