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Thread: dependability

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    Default dependability

    does anyone run a crimson , and also a rosenbauer? which pumper is more dependable?


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    I think what you'll find is a lot of your dependability is dependant on the chassis. My career department has Rosenbauer's with engines on Freightliner chassis and quints on HME's. I can't say as I'm impressed with either, but no major issues either.

    When we bought a pumper/tanker on my vollie department (Rosenbauer), we went with a Kenworth. We figured KW make a proven, solid chassis and as of yet that's been the case.

    I've never worked off a Crimson, so I have no clue there.

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    Between the two depts I run with,we have both.As Catch indicated,on a properly specced chassis you will have little trouble with either. We've run Roseys(formerly Central)for ten years with no issues of consequence.The Crimson has a nice mounting system and a panel mounting system that allows easy acess for service. T.C.

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    As a side note, when we were doing visits on my vollie department's pumper/tanker, I noticed there wasn't a single HME in the plant. Everything custom chassis was Spartan, which I think will help their dependability considerably.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Catch22 View Post
    As a side note, when we were doing visits on my vollie department's pumper/tanker, I noticed there wasn't a single HME in the plant. Everything custom chassis was Spartan, which I think will help their dependability considerably.
    I would believe that you did not see an HME in the plant because they are owned by Spartan Motors. I doubt you will see a Spartan in the HME plant.

    http://www.spartanmotors.com/

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChiefDog View Post
    I would believe that you did not see an HME in the plant because they are owned by Spartan Motors. I doubt you will see a Spartan in the HME plant.

    http://www.spartanmotors.com/
    I think you've got it crossed up. Our pumper/tanker is a Rosenbauer, Spartan owns Crimson. It was the Rosenbauer plant I was referring to.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Catch22 View Post
    I think you've got it crossed up. Our pumper/tanker is a Rosenbauer, Spartan owns Crimson. It was the Rosenbauer plant I was referring to.
    My bad. I guess I did not follow your intent back to your original post where you said it was a Rosenbaur...

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    Isn't Rosenbauer the largest customer of Spartan?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ha11igan View Post
    Isn't Rosenbauer the largest customer of Spartan?
    I sell Rosenbauer, so take my comments how you wish.

    Both builders will use someone else's chassis. Obviously, if you buy a custom chassis, Spartan is what you'll see under a Crimson, and more likely than not I would suspect that your Rosenbauer dealer will sell you a Spartan, but Rosenbauer can and will build on an HME if that is your chassis of choice. One of the Tech Drive '07 demos is on an HME.

    Obviously, I have my preferences, but I think Crimson also builds a solid product. The Central States plant (one of the Rosenbauer bodybuilding facilities) is within probably thirty minutes of Crimson's facilty, so it wouldn't surprise me if a fair amount of folks at both plants have worked at each facility. They're both in the same area for a reason, and one of them is the cost of labor. The old Luverne plant in Minnesota wasn't more or less moved to South Dakota for no reason.

    I see it this way. We build using basically the same components. I think each style of body has its strengths, and you need to weigh how each specific style of building a rig best fits your needs. Rosenbauer alone has quite a few different body building methods/styles to chose from, so that's where I'd start - look at how each builds their product. Formed or extruded aluminum, stainless, galvaneal, etc.

    Make sure you like your dealer. I think that's also paramount.

    Could I sell my product against a Crimson? Yes - that's my job. But this isn't the place to do it, and I think a good salesman can do it without going "negative." I suspect a Crimson sales rep could do the same. Otherwise, none of us would have the jobs we do.
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    An off topic slightly related question. Does any other manufacturer have the ability to build or have a chassis with a small wheelbase and overall length as the HME 1871-SFO? We have Rosenbauer/Central pumpers on commercial chassis, only 30' 8" but the wheelbase is outrageous.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mvfd99 View Post
    An off topic slightly related question. Does any other manufacturer have the ability to build or have a chassis with a small wheelbase and overall length as the HME 1871-SFO? We have Rosenbauer/Central pumpers on commercial chassis, only 30' 8" but the wheelbase is outrageous.
    Spartan makes an SMFD (Short Medium Four Door) cab, which makes it 119 inches from cab face to rear wall. Not an SFO with a shorter front overhang, but not as long as a regular medium four door. (The HME SFO is 100-1/2" face to rear wall.)

    Throw an independent front suspension under that Spartan though, get a 55 degree cramp angle, and I would bet you could turn the Spartan tighter...

    I don't know enough about the other custom chassis to chime in on what they have available.
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    We have a pre rosy 1991 Central states pumper on a ford commercial cab-over chassis. It has been a very reliable front-line piece. We just had some white rust paint blistering touched up around the rear wheel wells and compartment doors , due mostly to the extreme salt exposure it has seen. But at 15 years old that is to be expected. I don't know if things have changed since rosenbauer came into the picture.

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    Default Hme Sfo

    Couple of points on the HME SFO cab.

    The SFO is offered in a few configurations, 88 inch wide and 96 inch wide.

    Also comes in a flat or 12" raised roof version.

    The flat roof cab is 100.5 inches from the front sheet to the back of cab as nfpd801 says but the raised roof version is 109.5 inches. The raised roof model has the extra 9 inches on the back of the cab. Both models come in the 88 or 96 inch wide version.

    You can get a 52 degree wheel cut with alum wheels, 45 with steel on the SFO.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tomwnh View Post
    Couple of points on the HME SFO cab.

    The SFO is offered in a few configurations, 88 inch wide and 96 inch wide.

    Also comes in a flat or 12" raised roof version.

    The flat roof cab is 100.5 inches from the front sheet to the back of cab as nfpd801 says but the raised roof version is 109.5 inches. The raised roof model has the extra 9 inches on the back of the cab. Both models come in the 88 or 96 inch wide version.

    You can get a 52 degree wheel cut with alum wheels, 45 with steel on the SFO.
    Thanks Tom...I don't know as much about the HME cabs as I do Spartan. Can you still run higher horse motors with the 88 inch wide cab?

    I've seen some pretty neat compact rigs on the SFO chassis. A neighboring dealer did a pretty cool, rather short 4wd pumper on one for a department with some real access issues.
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    Quote Originally Posted by npfd801 View Post
    Thanks Tom...I don't know as much about the HME cabs as I do Spartan. Can you still run higher horse motors with the 88 inch wide cab?

    I've seen some pretty neat compact rigs on the SFO chassis. A neighboring dealer did a pretty cool, rather short 4wd pumper on one for a department with some real access issues.
    Both the 88 and 96 inch SFO are limited to the ISC's and ISL 350's but in most cases that will be more than enough. And yes you can make some real interesting trucks with that chassis. I've had some complain about how small and tight they are but in some cases, it's the only chassis that will work. It's not like you are driving it cross country. Every tool for it's job.

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    Default Short Wheel Base

    Quote Originally Posted by mvfd99 View Post
    An off topic slightly related question. Does any other manufacturer have the ability to build or have a chassis with a small wheelbase and overall length as the HME 1871-SFO? We have Rosenbauer/Central pumpers on commercial chassis, only 30' 8" but the wheelbase is outrageous.
    Go to Smeal's website and look at the Riverside County CA bought over the last 3 years and which many FD's in CA tagged on to. These are MF (Multi-Functional) Engines that have a 160" WB with the SMFD Cab and 166" with the MFD Cab and have a lot packed into a 26-27' OAL apparatus.

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    I've seen those trucks, pretty nice apparatus. The reason I asked about the wheelbase, specifically the HME, is we don't see many "shorter" pumpers around here. Our area has some fairly sharp corners in the residential area w/o curbs, just a ditch. So a shorter pumper, or even a chassis with a smaller wheelbase that can pack a punch for an aerial device, is something needed around here. Can those chassis' handle a platform of 100'? We don't have steep grades here, but we do need 1500 gpm or more. We don't have any issues with water supply either. I get to speak with the local Pierce rep quite frequently, and honestly he doesn't try to ram the whole Pierce thing, but I've noticed that their apparatus can be a little long. I do like their platforms though, but I wonder if coupling a HME chassis with maybe Alexis or someone can build what we need in our price range a little better.

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    If you're limited to an ISL, you're in the 400 horse range. Probably okay (I know, some will disagree) for a 75 foot quint, but likely not for something much larger.

    I have some great photos of a couple of short wheelbase HMEs that I'll post once home using an SFO chassis. There's also a Metz running around in Maine with a rear mount pump and poly body that's amazingly short, I'll see if I can't dig that photo out and post it, if someone doesn't beat me to it.
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    Here are the shots that I mentioned in the above post:
    Attached Images Attached Images  
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    Another...

    Credit for the below photo goes to John Degenhardt, I believe. If I'm wrong on this, someone please correct me.

    I have the Metz photo, but I don't know the photographer enough to use it, so I'll see if I can find a link to it.
    Attached Images Attached Images  
    Last edited by npfd801; 06-07-2007 at 01:35 AM.
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