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  1. #1
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    Default 16' Roof Ladder, inside or outside of 24' extension

    We are having a kitchen discussion on the stowing of the roof ladder on the engine, should it be placed on the inside(last off) or the outside(first off). what do you guys think


  2. #2
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    I think that you need to consider which one of them you use more often. If you are more likely to throw that 24' then put it on the outside. If you use the 16' more than put it on the outside. It makes no sense to put the ladder most often used in your first due area on the inside. We have the 24' on the outside right now to see if it works better for us.

  3. #3
    Forum Member backsteprescue123's Avatar
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    On our ALS Engine (first out on fires), we have an a-frame ladder on the outside, then the roof ladder, then the extension.

    On our Rescue/Engine (first to MVA's, third to fires (second due engine)) we have the roof ladder then the extension.
    Last edited by backsteprescue; 06-01-2007 at 12:07 AM.
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  4. #4
    MembersZone Subscriber fireslayer1237's Avatar
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    I agree with Lt. although i would think if you have a lot of single story home the 24' would be great on the outside so you can throw that to get on the roof and the 16' to operate while on the roof. just my 2 cents actually since I have been in the fire service for just over 3 years it constitutes not even 1 cent.
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  5. #5
    Forum Member THEFIRENUT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fireslayer1237 View Post
    I agree with Lt. although i would think if you have a lot of single story home the 24' would be great on the outside so you can throw that to get on the roof and the 16' to operate while on the roof. just my 2 cents actually since I have been in the fire service for just over 3 years it constitutes not even 1 cent.
    This new guy makes a lot of sense. Not much need for a roof ladder if you can't get to the roof!
    Just someone trying to help! (And by the way....Thanks for YOUR help!)

    Aggressive does not have to equal stupid.

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  6. #6
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    Default Do you run with a truck all the time?

    I think fireslayer has it right if you don't run with a truck. Them truckies can do most of that grunt work. If you're with a truck all the time I'm gonna go with checking the records for which ladder is thrown most. If you don't officially record it, do it yourself for a year or so.

    Finally, if you are short with a 24, a 16 ain't gonna help. If you are short with a 16 you could be endangering someone. Heck in parts of my first due with steep hills and sub basements, the 24 wouldn't reach some of the second floor windows. That is one group of homes where I'm really grateful for a truck co. running with me. Besides, truckies are OK people, no matter what anyone says about them.
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  7. #7
    MembersZone Subscriber mcaldwell's Avatar
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    Just to further the point; Whatever works for you.


    We have the extensions out because they almost always go up first. If your experience is different, there is nothing wrong with changing it to suit your operations.

    And FTR,

    We have a 30' folding roof in first (next to body)
    Then a 14' roof in the middle
    And a 24' extension on the outside
    Never argue with an Idiot. They drag you down to their level, and then beat you with experience!

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  8. #8
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    Default Roof ladder mounted on the outside.

    I like roof ladders mounted on the outside. The pump operator can easily throw this ladder to a side window quickly and without any assistance.
    Anything less than excellent is unacceptable!

  9. #9
    Forum Member backsteprescue123's Avatar
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    Our truck is coming second, right after the first due engine, so usually if a ladder is to be thrown it will be thrown by them, but the other ladders will be used on a fireground fairly often as well.
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    My vote is for the extension ladder on the outside.

    Any firefighter should be able to throw a 24' (28' really) 2 section ladder solo. The versatility of an extension ladder over a straight ladder is enough to warrant it being placed on the rack so it can be quickly removed. I believe the late Chief Brennan (FDNT Ret.) wrote a blurb on this in his random thoughts column too.

    The ladders on many engines are used for egress/access. As such, it makes sense to have the extension ladder on the outside. If you use them for roof work, typically the extension ladder would be needed before the roof ladder.

    I believe its just a case of thats how its always been (ext ladder on outside) and nobody ever gave it a second thought.

    We have a 28' 2 section on the outside, behind that is a 16' roof and then a 14' roof.

    Another important note. Always tie the ladder off when its bedded to the base section only. By doing this, it does not need to be untied to be raised quickly.



    The seatbelts holding the ladders on were only there until new brackets came in after a little mishap.
    Last edited by MG3610; 06-03-2007 at 07:17 AM.

  11. #11
    Hook & Can
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    Default

    I brought this very thread up last night at the firehouse. We were running with the roof ladder as first off. I explained some of the opinions expressed on here. Without even thinking about it, my Captain said it was a great idea...and we switched them around. Now the extension is first off.

    Why they were the other way around, no one seems to know. But the general consensus was that the extension on the outside was the most logical.

    Who says you can't learn something on the forums?

    Thanks for the discussion/idea, guys!

  12. #12
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    Outside (first off). A lot easier to move that 14' roof ladder if you need the 24' extension ladder than vice versa.

  13. #13
    Forum Member nyckftbl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EGH128 View Post
    Outside (first off). A lot easier to move that 14' roof ladder if you need the 24' extension ladder than vice versa.
    How much easier is it? all youre doing is dropping it on the floor. The one on the outside should be the one used more often, and more importantly, the more versataile of the two.
    Proud East Coast Traditionalist.

  14. #14
    Forum Member Dave1983's Avatar
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    We have 14' roof ladders on our engines, and they are on the outside. We also don't use them much. Ladders are a ladder company's job.
    Fire Marshal/Safety Officer

    IAAI-NFPA-IAFC/VCOS-Retired IAFF

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  15. #15
    Forum Member DeputyMarshal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EGH128 View Post
    Outside (first off). A lot easier to move that 14' roof ladder if you need the 24' extension ladder than vice versa.
    That tends to be the rationale here, too.

    We run small engine crews (3 or 4) and random backup (POC crews) so it's not uncommon for the pump operator to throw escape ladders, vent windows, etc. If he's going to want to get to the roof ladder it's easier not to have to go through the extension to get it. If we're going to use the extension, odds are there are at least two firefighters using it so dropping the roof ladder to the ground to get to it is trivial.
    "Nemo Plus Voluptatis Quam Nos Habant"

    The Code is more what you'd call "guidelines" than actual rules.

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    We switched our roofers from outside to inside last year after a discussion like this. Then during annual ladder testing we found several of the extension ladders had rungs that were nearly worn through from friction. So we had to switch it back.

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    Several of our engines have the ladders inside the body in seperate compartments. Pull what you need and leave the rest, alot easier.

  18. #18
    MembersZone Subscriber dday05's Avatar
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    I like the smaller ladder out front just incase you need to make a quick rescue. As everyone else said if you need the bigger ladder just put it on the ground.

  19. #19
    Forum Member Chiefy's Avatar
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    Extension off first.

    And nothin' sadder than an unused ladder. Put 'em up boys! Never enough ways out or off. RIT teams should be laddering escape routes, clearing clutter, removing hazards. I take it back. Nothing sadder than a RIT team positioned by the front door waiting.............put up a ladder or two! Move crap outta the way! Garbage cans, kids toys, junk tires, MOVE IT, MOVE IT , MOVE IT PYLE!!! (sorry, where was I?)
    Think first and be safe. Your family wants to hold you, not a folded flag.

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    This can be answered by a simple why are we here?
    To save lives, property can be replaced a life can not. What ladder do we use to save lives? the 24' extension ladder. In the vast majority of single family homes the 24' extension ladder will make it to the bedroom windows.
    So it needs to come off first. In a rescue we don't have a lot of time to screw around. We need to get to the victim FAST. It takes precious seconds to get the roof ladder down and out of the way, seconds that the victim needs to survive.
    mount the extension on the outside, it doesn't know the difference but the rescue may go smoother and that does make all the difference in the world.
    Also while I want my ladder company to do the ladder work sometimes the engine (even first due) has to act to make the rescue. So set up the engine to go to work and not for parades.

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