Thread: STLFD In Trouble
06-05-2007, 11:04 PM #1
STLFD In Trouble
Police Investigating Alleged Improper Activities At St. Louis Fire Dept.
Created: 6/5/2007 6:11:21 PM
Last updated: 6/5/2007 7:01:24 PM
(KSDK) - The St. Louis Police Department has begun an investigation into alleged improper activities at the St. Louis Fire Department Academy, which trains new recruits.
The allegation is that twice in recent weeks, up to four recruits at a time have been taken out of class, loaded into fire department vans and ordered to clean up rental properties owned by a top fire department commander.
Sources tell NewsChannel 5 that while the recruits were missing from school, class work slowed for all of the recruits.
Sources said that the fire recruits were taken back to fire headquarters in the late afternoon and the debris and trash they collected was then dumped in dumpsters at the fire department.
Police began their investigation last Friday and plan to interview all 19 men and one woman in the recruit class.
Sources said that different recruits were picked each time for the extra work, which means eight recruits were affected.
Police won't specify which division of the department is investigating, but sources said that police were called in by St. Louis public safety director Sam Simon, who oversees the fire department. When Simon, a former St. Louis police officer, began hearing reports of the extracurricular work he asked for an investigation.
Fire department spokesperson Capt. Steve Simpson would not confirm an investigation, but said anything involving the recruits would be considered a personnel matter.
This is not the first time recruits have been used for such work.
Sources said a firefighter who graduated into the department 18 months ago was also pulled from class to perform private work. That firefighter may soon be talking to police investigators, as they try to determine just how much of the work has been going on.
06-05-2007, 11:09 PM #2
- Join Date
- Oct 2006
06-05-2007, 11:55 PM #3
Sounds like maybe some individuals might be in trouble, not so sure about the "St. Louis Fire Department."RK
Management is making sure things are done right. Leadership is doing the right thing. The fire service needs alot more leaders and a lot less managers.
"Everyone goes home" is the mantra for the pussification of the modern, American fire service.
Comments made are my own. They do not represent the official position or opinion of the Fire Department or the City for which I am employed. In fact, they are normally exactly the opposite.
06-06-2007, 12:36 AM #4
- Join Date
- Jun 2002
- Glenn Dale Md, Heart of the P.G. County Fire Belt....
I'm with Bob, this is a Person or persons, not the whole FD.Never use Force! Get a Bigger Hammer.
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06-06-2007, 07:26 PM #5
This does not suprise anyone who works here with the current administration. The CFD and FIRE (Firefighter Insitute for Racial Equality) are now claiming certain people are fabricating this as a political move to get the chief to promote the nearly 40 vacant captain positions.
The chief has refused to fill the promotions because FIRE claims the current Captains list was racially biased and would have an adverse impact on the fire department. A judge has just ruled in the past few weeks that the test was in fact VALID, FAIR, and would NOT have an adverse impact. As of today the CFD has yet to announce if he plans to promote or wait for FIRE to appeal the ruling.
I dont remember any of my fellow recruits having to do an "extra" activities, but would not suprise me if this turns out to be true.
In my personal opinion, it looks like to me that the beginning of the end is coming to our current fire department administration. Chief George is a very friendly and personable guy, but there has been more scandle, questionable leadership pracices, and issues like this under his command than any other in our 150 year history.
Sitting at the kitchen table of most firehouses here...listenting to the morning scuttle butt......firefighters...white AND black....are desperate for a change and a fresh start.
06-06-2007, 11:43 PM #6
06-07-2007, 12:29 AM #7
- Join Date
- Dec 2004
- Kansas City, MO
06-07-2007, 07:06 AM #8
06-07-2007, 07:13 AM #9
- Join Date
- Feb 2007
- In my house
06-07-2007, 08:25 AM #10"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY
06-13-2007, 11:28 PM #11
- Join Date
- Jun 2007
The STLFD has been driven into the ground. Those of you who applied last month, please do some research into the department.. The Command staff is running almost 1/3 short, with "actors" filling these vacancies each day and it's not uncommon for there not to be any Captains in a district during a tour. There haven't been any promotions in 6 years, because the Chief refuses to promote from a list that is mostly white. The Mayor and City Hall are risking the safety of the citizens and FF's out of fear of racial politics.
St. Louis fire promotional tests weren't discriminatory, federal judge says
By Robert Patrick
ST. LOUIS POST-DISPATCH
St. Louis — Blacks did worse than others on a test used for promotions by the city Fire Department in 2000, a federal judge ruled, but it and three other long-disputed tests did not intentionally discriminate.
The judge said the department can move forward with promoting people on lists compiled from the tests, but it was unclear whether that will make any practical difference.
For one thing, a lawyer for one of the parties that sued the city over the tests, the Firefighters Institute for Racial Equality, a black fraternal organization, has vowed to appeal.
For another, Fire Chief Sherman George already had the court's permission to promote captains and battalion chiefs from the lists but has refused to do it. Advertisement
There have been lawsuits over promotion lists for years, but the most recent was filed in 2004, when four black firefighters and FIRE made a complaint to the U.S. Equal Employment Opportunity Commission and sued the city.
They claimed that the 2000 and 2004 tests used to decide who would be promoted to captain and battalion chief vacancies were biased against blacks and were not based on relevant skills.
Some promotions were made from the 2000 list, but it has now expired. No promotions have been made from the 2004 list. Firefighters have been filling the vacant positions on an acting basis.
To make the list of those eligible for promotion, a candidate has to pass a number of written and practical tests. Two of the four firefighters who sued did not make the captain's list, and two failed to make the battalion chief's list.
Local 73 of the International Association of Fire Fighters and several white firefighters then asked to intervene in the case, arguing that they could be affected.
After the suit was filed, U.S. District Judge Rodney Sippel rejected FIRE's request for a temporary restraining order to block use of the promotion lists until the case could be tried.
Even before February's bench trial, Sippel had ruled that the city had not intentionally discriminated against black firefighters.
So the department has been legally able to hire off the list for years, but lawyers and a union official said Chief George has refused to do it.
George would not comment on the judge's ruling or his intentions, saying, "Nobody's bothered to give me a copy of the decision."
The city counselor's office said it had supplied him with a copy.
In the decision released May 25, Sippel said that only the 2000 fire captain test had a disparate outcome for blacks, meaning "it impacts one group more negatively or more harshly," Assistant City Counselor Nancy Kistler explained in an interview.
The 2000 battalion chief test and both 2004 tests did not have an adverse impact, he ruled.
Under the law, if a test or other selection procedure has different outcomes for different races, then it is up to the employer to prove that there is no better way to do the test, and that the test is "job-related," valid and "consistent with business necessity."
Kistler gave an example in which candidates would be asked to lift 100 pounds. "It's going to impact women much more harshly," she said, suggesting that the employer would have to be able to show that such lifting is related to the job.
Sippel said that the city produced "overwhelming evidence tending to prove" that the tests were relevant.
"The FIRE plaintiffs did not present any evidence that an alternative selection method was available that has a less disparate impact and would still serve the City's legitimate business interest," the judge's ruling says.
Veronica Johnson, a FIRE lawyer, said it would appeal the judge's ruling.
"We are disappointed in the decision," she said. "We don't think it accurately reflects the situation for African-American firefighters in the city."
The union's lawyer, Greg A. Campbell, said it was hoping that "the chief will do the right thing and begin filling vacancies using the current list."
City Counselor Patricia Hageman said an appeal could take another year, "but there is no legal reason that promotions could not move forward now."
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06-14-2007, 09:05 PM #12
Last edited by Dickey; 06-14-2007 at 09:09 PM.Jason Knecht
Altoona Fire Dept.
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06-15-2007, 07:27 AM #13
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