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  1. #1

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    Lightbulb Outside Line Attacks

    I just had a recent discussion with one of my partners about attack lines, As an engineer, I like to get my guys set up for the interior attack, get the RIT taken care of and then grab the trash line or another crosslay and hit what I can from the outside, His concern was that I could push the fire back onto them, This should be done with caution and communication, I just wanted to know what everyone thinks or does?


  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firefletch67 View Post
    I just had a recent discussion with one of my partners about attack lines, As an engineer, I like to get my guys set up for the interior attack, get the RIT taken care of and then grab the trash line or another crosslay and hit what I can from the outside, His concern was that I could push the fire back onto them, This should be done with caution and communication, I just wanted to know what everyone thinks or does?
    Without getting into whether you can "push" fire, it's not a good idea. The biggest thing is that you can disrupt the thermal layring and push a helluva lot of heat on the guys inside.

    The other thing that concerns me is if you're an engineer, you need to be on the pump panel, not fighting fire. If something goes wrong, you need to be able to take care of it at the panel immediately, not have to leave a nozzle and get to the panel.

  3. #3
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    I would not be happy if a line was put into the building with a crew inside unless specifically requested by the IC and done knowing where the crews area and the needs. As a rule we never dump water in from outside with crews inside. Now, an exposure line or something to stop exterior fire spread, I'd be OK with as long as the water did not get directed in.

  4. #4

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    I agree that this is not the best for unvented buildings, and maybe I was not so clear, If a room is on fire and has not vented, you probably would not be able to see the fire from outside, This would be benificial in an already vented portion of the fire.

  5. #5
    Forum Member Hazmat91180's Avatar
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    Not to mention that if you are hitting an opening from the outside, that opening (before you hit it) was acting as a ventilation spot, which has now been covered. I wouldn't appreciate it either.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firefletch67 View Post
    I just had a recent discussion with one of my partners about attack lines, As an engineer, I like to get my guys set up for the interior attack, get the RIT taken care of and then grab the trash line or another crosslay and hit what I can from the outside, His concern was that I could push the fire back onto them, This should be done with caution and communication, I just wanted to know what everyone thinks or does?
    Unless that line is hitting an exposure, don't do that! As Catch22 said, you belong at the pump panel not on an exposure or attack line.
    Last edited by FireLt1951; 06-06-2007 at 02:14 PM.

  7. #7
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    The guys inside should have a share with the IC in the decision-making process as to whether or not the fire should be attacked from the outside. NO ONE on the outside should unilaterally make this decision unless it is essential to mitigate an immediate life-threat.

    Secondary to that, if I'm on the hose, I want the engineer with the engine. There are a variety of bad things that can go wrong and kill me if the engineer isn't at the pump doing his job.

    (1) Discard your idea of "helping" from the exterior until specifically instructed to do so.
    (2) Stay with the pump until specifically instructed to do otherwise.
    You only have to be stupid once to be dead permanently
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    and is willing to take command. Very often, that individual is crazy. - Dave Barry.

  8. #8
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    After exiting the building, I would hunt you down and kick your arse if you every played a line into a dwelling with guys inside. Your first responsibility on the fireground is to ensure the fellas on the line have plenty of water and at the correct pressure. Your second responsibility is to ensure your first responsibility is completed. That is your role, a very important one at that. Everybody has a job to do, just do yours.
    Just another one of the 99%ers looking up.

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    i don't really think it's practical for the wagon driver to deploy and operate a second hand line, save it as the assignment for the next due engine.

    The good operators i deal with are very busy off the bat as a first due engine. Their first concern is obviously running the pump, and if they can grab their own plug, they can do that as well. Some of our good drivers also help us out by grabbin and throwin a few groud ladders for us prior to the arrival of the first due truck while were stretching in

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    I have to agree with the crowd. Throwing water through a window while crews are operating on the inside isnít a good idea.

    I have always said any pump operator worth his salt works as hard, if not harder than the crews inside.

    There are a host of jobs/responsibilities for the pump operator
    -Charging the attack line
    -Setting up some lights
    -Get the supply line connected
    -Pull out the fan
    -Looking for another hydrant

    If you want to get props from your crew, anticipate what they are going to need on the inside and have it ready! Simple things like getting the extra TIC battery and putting it in your pocket so that when the officer leans out of a window with a dead battery pack in his hand, you are smiling with a fresh one already in mid air.
    Anything less than excellent is unacceptable!

  11. #11
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    Have to agree with everone else that it should not be done. I've been on the receiving end of a freelance exterior line, and to say that my crew and I where not happy campers is and understatement. A high pressure water stream can easily remove face pieces, hemlets, send tools and other items flying. Plus if your in an unhydranted area the extra water could make a diffrence between a save and a total loss.

  12. #12
    Forum Member DeputyChiefGonzo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PFDTruck18 View Post
    After exiting the building, I would hunt you down and kick your arse if you every played a line into a dwelling with guys inside. Your first responsibility on the fireground is to ensure the fellas on the line have plenty of water and at the correct pressure. Your second responsibility is to ensure your first responsibility is completed. That is your role, a very important one at that. Everybody has a job to do, just do yours.

    PFD.. eloquently stated!

    Having been on the "recieving end" of an opposing hose line in the past, I can state that it is not a pleasant experience. Steaming is fine for removing wrinkles, degreasing car engines and cooking clams and veggies, not for cooking firefighters!

    The officer who ordered than line put into operation received a new orifice from which to defacate from by both the Deputy and the Chief. I was going to rip him another one, but he had been through enough torture already.
    Last edited by CaptainGonzo; 06-06-2007 at 05:09 PM.
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  13. #13
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    Did the term "opposing handlines" ever come up in your training?
    Other than that, I think PFDTruck18 summed up my thoughts very well.
    My posts reflect my views and opinions, not the organization I work for or my IAFF local. Some of which they may not agree. I.A.C.O.J. member
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  14. #14
    Forum Member fireman4949's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PFDTruck18 View Post
    After exiting the building, I would hunt you down and kick your arse if you every played a line into a dwelling with guys inside.

    You'd have to get in line and wait your turn!
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  15. #15
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    So far the voting is 12-0 in favor of you staying at the pump and doing your job. Any more votes?
    You only have to be stupid once to be dead permanently
    IACOJ Power Company Liason
    When trouble arises and things look bad, there is always one individual who perceives a solution
    and is willing to take command. Very often, that individual is crazy. - Dave Barry.

  16. #16
    Forum Member MemphisE34a's Avatar
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    Make it 13-0.
    RK
    cell #901-494-9437

    Management is making sure things are done right. Leadership is doing the right thing. The fire service needs alot more leaders and a lot less managers.

    "Everyone goes home" is the mantra for the pussification of the modern, American fire service.


    Comments made are my own. They do not represent the official position or opinion of the Fire Department or the City for which I am employed. In fact, they are normally exactly the opposite.

  17. #17
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    That would be 14-0. You want to give your crew extra water and help out more? Get a Cooler and some cups and give them plenty to drink when they come out.

  18. #18
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    That sounds to me like the classic definition of freelancing.

  19. #19
    Forum Member Higby916's Avatar
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    15-0 here. First rule of thumb, firefighters inside, no water from the outside unless asked for. Maybe with careful coordination... but I've only seen it twice. Once ended in disaster the other ended with me nearly on my *** as my crew got hammered with a 2 1/2.

  20. #20
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    ..Don't do it just for the sake of doing "something".
    ..Get some SCBA bottles together for the guys inside and help change them..
    ..Get some water and paper cups ready for them
    ..Get all the kinks out of the lines on the ground
    ..LISTEN TO THE RADIO for calls of "more pressure".."drop the pressure" .."we lost water"..etc.

    ..If you're throwing about 175gpm around outside, you're taking that water away from the interior handlines.!!

    .

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