Check out this video and tell me if you see any reason to cut a hole?
Check out this video and tell me if you see any reason to cut a hole?
While it may not have been needed because it looked like the horizontal venting was sufficent I think it was good that it was done. Now for the bad part. In the manner it was done though I do not agree with. If your'e going to spend the time bringing the roof ladder up ,which on that roof it really wasn't needed, then use it properly. Also why where they on the roof if they where not even prepared such as they where waiting for their third guy you know the one with the tool and then they still were not totally ready because the guy with no ppe had to bring up the rest of their tools. With that roof you should not need three guys on the roof anyway it's added weight so have the third guy stand on the extension ladder. Like I said before I don't like trashing other departments but it's because of things like this that we keep killing ourselves.
Hard to tell without seeing rest of the building. Is the garage attached? Looked there are a lot of exposures. So yeah maybe I would have...although I would have actually used the roof ladder as it was intended when it was placed.
It's taking too long to load, but my guess is that the IC said to do it. If I get it to load, I'll take a look. The pumper chauffer used to work at 6's, so I'll ask him since he's still got some psychic link to them.
OK. Lets go with the obvious. You do not need 3 FF to vent a house. NEVER remove any PPE while in the HOT ZONE. Do not ventilate directly over the seat of the fire, that will not draw the smoke away only give the flames access to the roof. The roof ladder was used for the supervisors(??!) not the axeman. And finally, stay the hell away from the power lines.
But I did enjoy the soundtrack. Maybe all fire should come with their own soundtracks. (besides swearing and broken radio communications)
First I've seen someone say that. Isn't the idea to get all the hot and bad stuff up and out? If I cut the hole further away, won't the hot and bad stuff then want to travel over to that new opening as opposed to simply going straight up?Quote:
Do not ventilate directly over the seat of the fire
Couldnt get it to load. I have watched other HFD videos. Maybe its the just the ones I have seen, but it looks like good, aggressive tactics in most. Maybe T6's assignment per SOP was to go to the roof and open up. In most HFD vids I've seen they always seem to have a truck go to the roof to vent it.
I remember being on a house fire one time, small cape cod type fire on second floor, in the knee walls, real hot. I was on the line and my OIC asked the Chief to open the roof. The chief never assigned anyone to do it, reason being, in his opinion you dont need to vent a roof on SFD's.
I gotta go with the second within reason.
Heat goes up. That's generally the 'away' we need.
Supervisors weigh more than workers. Their brains are 3 times the size of their underlings. It's science.
I'm pretty sure those are telephone lines, but I haven't seen the video.
Agreed, I question that to, the idea is to ventilate directly over the seat of the fire to avoid extension.
And to the commentThe whole point to the roof ladder is stability on a roof, especially one that is showing flames directly beneath, right? That video was sickening and should go on closecalls.comQuote:
If your'e going to spend the time bringing the roof ladder up ,which on that roof it really wasn't needed
I'm with Bones. Do not vent right over the seat? Another first for me. Please try and explain the logic here? I didn't what for the video, so I'm guessing the hole was not at the peak and this is your point? :eek:
Watched the video.
Chiefy, those are telephone lines.
Maybe if the flames were heavy or if the construction were different, you'd be right.Quote:
The whole point to the roof ladder is stability on a roof, especially one that is showing flames directly beneath, right? That video was sickening and should go on closecalls.com
If that was sickening, I don't think the truck is going to be your cup of tea.
HAZMAT no offense but the purpose of the roof ladder is to span from the peak to the sofet end and was designed when houses where stick built and not the crap truss construction which has no ridge. So on our stick built roof if for some reason the roof goes in and the ridge and sofet are still intact in theroy the ladder should still be there where as on a truss roof if the truss fails with there being no ridge everything goes in which defeats the purpose of the roof ladder also for personal reasons I think the roof ladder should not be used. When possible put the main to the peak walk the ridge and cut high and as soon as you're done cutting and push in the ceiling get off the roof. By not using the roof ladder when possible it allows you to feel the changes in the roof condition.
In NYC we rarely cut peaked roof PD's. It is not an initial tactic, as horizontal ventilation is most often sufficient. Even flat roof PD's or MD's do not get cut unless fire is directly under the roof boards, or in some cases an inspection hole might be cut if there is reason to suspect fire has entered the cockloft or attic. There are probably an average of four or five private dwelling fires daily in NYC, and I would say almost none are cut. I think many places cut, simply out of habit. Cutting should be done as a means of preventing horizontal fire spread, not simply to clear an attic space of residual smoke.
To me there is absolutely ZERO reason to cut a hole here. Poor tactics. As for Chiefy, your an idiot. Please tell me that you got that nickname when you were a kid and it's not your rank?
Loved the supervisor brain comment. And no I wasn't suggesting ventilating far away from the seat, vent saw's fine, it's fast, but an axe cut should be done just off from directly over the seat. Gives time to finish the hole before the fire comes up in your face and starts to remove the smoke from surrounding areas while your working.
And the ladder was a good fit for the roof for a span.
Good call on the wires, old eyes, small screen.
Still say there was absolutely no need for 3 on the roof.
After all is said and done, I don't think the roof vent was necessary.
Hazmat no real personal problems just the fact that it is a big trip hazard and awkward to work on, also if you are going to use it for safety then there should be a second ladder for the other side of the hole to stand on. If it's a deep pitch then yes I just may use it or go off the main of the truck or of its rainy or snowy but most of the time I am on a roof I am at the peak making my cut.
I gotta say the most dangerous thing I saw in the video are firefighters breathing air on the roof! Reduced visiblity and poor balance will cause injury or death too. In fact I'll bet we have more close calls from these causes than smoke or fire engulfment on the roof.
But, I guess I'd agree that on my job that roof wouldn't have been cut at all, unless there is something we just don't know. The fire looks nicely vented out the window and there isn't much or any smoke condition anywhere else, winodws or soffits.
Since we're on their case anyway, I guess I'd be unhappy with my guys using their hands to remove roof materials. Pretty obvious the guys up there weren't expecting any heat, smoke or flame, so why make the cut? Orders I guess? But given the Fisher Price hook they had maybe they resort to what works. These guys get a lot of work, they ought to have a real roof hook! In all maybe a little disapointing show for HFD, but we all have off days.
With 20/20 "hind sight"...Maybe No.
With fire on 2nd floor of 2 story wood frame and "possible" fire in the attic with FFs entering the structure to put fire out...Yes I would send crews to the roof.
If that fire "took off" or if there was more than what we see in the video clip I think that venting the roof is the right thing to do. Sometimes if there is a "little question" as to whether or not we vent or not I say go ahead and do it. In this case what harm did it do vs what good could it have done???
I am not going to comment on the skill level here just on whether or not venting should have taken place.
We always send guys to the roof, but that doesnt mean they cut a hole. There are plenty of natural openings in the roof that can generate verticle ventilation without the need to cut. They can also reach down and vent upper floor windows with their hook.
Ummm, if youre not cutting above the fire, why are you cutting at all?
Not much came out of the hole, so in hindsight, I would say there wasnt a reason to cut. But, I wasnt there. I see only a few minutes of time from a single low angle. Im sure the fellas from Houston fight enough fire to know what needs to be done.