Why register? ...To Enhance Your Experience
+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 42
  1. #1
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    69

    Default Is there a reason to cut a hole?

    Check out this video and tell me if you see any reason to cut a hole?






    http://www.thebravestonline.com/Tower6VentJob.html


  2. #2
    MembersZone Subscriber
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Posts
    191

    Default

    While it may not have been needed because it looked like the horizontal venting was sufficent I think it was good that it was done. Now for the bad part. In the manner it was done though I do not agree with. If your'e going to spend the time bringing the roof ladder up ,which on that roof it really wasn't needed, then use it properly. Also why where they on the roof if they where not even prepared such as they where waiting for their third guy you know the one with the tool and then they still were not totally ready because the guy with no ppe had to bring up the rest of their tools. With that roof you should not need three guys on the roof anyway it's added weight so have the third guy stand on the extension ladder. Like I said before I don't like trashing other departments but it's because of things like this that we keep killing ourselves.

  3. #3
    MembersZone Subscriber WaterbryVTfire's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Vermont
    Posts
    547

    Default

    Hard to tell without seeing rest of the building. Is the garage attached? Looked there are a lot of exposures. So yeah maybe I would have...although I would have actually used the roof ladder as it was intended when it was placed.
    "If people concentrated on the really important things in life, there'd be a shortage of fishing poles."
    ********

    IACOJ

    ********

    "Criticism is prejudice made plausible."
    - H. L. Mencken (1880-1956)

  4. #4
    Forum Member johnny46's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Houston, TX
    Posts
    2,094

    Default

    It's taking too long to load, but my guess is that the IC said to do it. If I get it to load, I'll take a look. The pumper chauffer used to work at 6's, so I'll ask him since he's still got some psychic link to them.

  5. #5
    MembersZone Subscriber dday05's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    1,330

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by johnny46 View Post
    It's taking too long to load, but my guess is that the IC said to do it. If I get it to load, I'll take a look.
    Same here!

  6. #6
    Forum Member Chiefy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    201

    Cool

    OK. Lets go with the obvious. You do not need 3 FF to vent a house. NEVER remove any PPE while in the HOT ZONE. Do not ventilate directly over the seat of the fire, that will not draw the smoke away only give the flames access to the roof. The roof ladder was used for the supervisors(??!) not the axeman. And finally, stay the hell away from the power lines.



    But I did enjoy the soundtrack. Maybe all fire should come with their own soundtracks. (besides swearing and broken radio communications)
    Think first and be safe. Your family wants to hold you, not a folded flag.

    Proud member of the Patriot Guard Riders

  7. #7
    Forum Member Bones42's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Location
    Pt. Beach, NJ
    Posts
    10,570

    Default

    Do not ventilate directly over the seat of the fire
    First I've seen someone say that. Isn't the idea to get all the hot and bad stuff up and out? If I cut the hole further away, won't the hot and bad stuff then want to travel over to that new opening as opposed to simply going straight up?
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

  8. #8
    MembersZone Subscriber
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    the corner of walk and don't walk
    Posts
    396

    Default

    Couldnt get it to load. I have watched other HFD videos. Maybe its the just the ones I have seen, but it looks like good, aggressive tactics in most. Maybe T6's assignment per SOP was to go to the roof and open up. In most HFD vids I've seen they always seem to have a truck go to the roof to vent it.
    I remember being on a house fire one time, small cape cod type fire on second floor, in the knee walls, real hot. I was on the line and my OIC asked the Chief to open the roof. The chief never assigned anyone to do it, reason being, in his opinion you dont need to vent a roof on SFD's.

    Stay Safe

  9. #9
    Forum Member johnny46's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Houston, TX
    Posts
    2,094

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Chiefy View Post
    OK. Lets go with the obvious. You do not need 3 FF to vent a house. NEVER remove any PPE while in the HOT ZONE. Do not ventilate directly over the seat of the fire, that will not draw the smoke away only give the flames access to the roof. The roof ladder was used for the supervisors(??!) not the axeman. And finally, stay the hell away from the power lines.



    But I did enjoy the soundtrack. Maybe all fire should come with their own soundtracks. (besides swearing and broken radio communications)
    2 guys work, 1 guy just watches. That's 3 and it works pretty well.
    I gotta go with the second within reason.
    Heat goes up. That's generally the 'away' we need.
    Supervisors weigh more than workers. Their brains are 3 times the size of their underlings. It's science.
    I'm pretty sure those are telephone lines, but I haven't seen the video.

  10. #10
    Forum Member Hazmat91180's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    South Eastern WI
    Posts
    108

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Bones42 View Post
    First I've seen someone say that. Isn't the idea to get all the hot and bad stuff up and out? If I cut the hole further away, won't the hot and bad stuff then want to travel over to that new opening as opposed to simply going straight up?

    Agreed, I question that to, the idea is to ventilate directly over the seat of the fire to avoid extension.

    And to the comment
    If your'e going to spend the time bringing the roof ladder up ,which on that roof it really wasn't needed
    The whole point to the roof ladder is stability on a roof, especially one that is showing flames directly beneath, right? That video was sickening and should go on closecalls.com
    Last edited by Hazmat91180; 06-07-2007 at 04:00 PM.

  11. #11
    MembersZone Subscriber
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Northeast Coast
    Posts
    3,774

    Default

    I'm with Bones. Do not vent right over the seat? Another first for me. Please try and explain the logic here? I didn't what for the video, so I'm guessing the hole was not at the peak and this is your point?

  12. #12
    MembersZone Subscriber dday05's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    1,330

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Chiefy View Post
    Do not ventilate directly over the seat of the fire, that will not draw the smoke away only give the flames access to the roof.
    I would like to hear your reasoning for this.

    If you can put a hole almost over the fire that should reduce the chance of fire spreading through the house and that equals less fire damage.

  13. #13
    Forum Member johnny46's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Houston, TX
    Posts
    2,094

    Default

    Watched the video.
    Chiefy, those are telephone lines.

    The whole point to the roof ladder is stability on a roof, especially one that is showing flames directly beneath, right? That video was sickening and should go on closecalls.com
    Maybe if the flames were heavy or if the construction were different, you'd be right.

    If that was sickening, I don't think the truck is going to be your cup of tea.

  14. #14
    MembersZone Subscriber
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Posts
    191

    Default

    HAZMAT no offense but the purpose of the roof ladder is to span from the peak to the sofet end and was designed when houses where stick built and not the crap truss construction which has no ridge. So on our stick built roof if for some reason the roof goes in and the ridge and sofet are still intact in theroy the ladder should still be there where as on a truss roof if the truss fails with there being no ridge everything goes in which defeats the purpose of the roof ladder also for personal reasons I think the roof ladder should not be used. When possible put the main to the peak walk the ridge and cut high and as soon as you're done cutting and push in the ceiling get off the roof. By not using the roof ladder when possible it allows you to feel the changes in the roof condition.

  15. #15
    Forum Member fireman4949's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Tallahassee, Florida
    Posts
    2,323

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Chiefy View Post
    Do not ventilate directly over the seat of the fire, that will not draw the smoke away only give the flames access to the roof.
    I've never heard this either.

    I want the flames to have access to the roof. That reduces their access to me and my crew inside.

    Venting a roof away from the seat of the fire will only spread the fire and smoke to more of the structure. Not a good thing.
    Fire Lieutenant/E.M.T.
    IAFF Local 2339
    K of C 4th Degree
    "LEATHER FOREVER"
    Member I.A.C.O.J.
    http://www.tfdfire.com/
    "Fir na tine"

  16. #16
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Brooklyn, New York
    Posts
    584

    Default

    In NYC we rarely cut peaked roof PD's. It is not an initial tactic, as horizontal ventilation is most often sufficient. Even flat roof PD's or MD's do not get cut unless fire is directly under the roof boards, or in some cases an inspection hole might be cut if there is reason to suspect fire has entered the cockloft or attic. There are probably an average of four or five private dwelling fires daily in NYC, and I would say almost none are cut. I think many places cut, simply out of habit. Cutting should be done as a means of preventing horizontal fire spread, not simply to clear an attic space of residual smoke.
    Last edited by MattyJ; 06-07-2007 at 07:31 PM.

  17. #17
    Forum Member fireman4949's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Tallahassee, Florida
    Posts
    2,323

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MattyJ View Post
    I think many places cut, simply out of habit. Cutting should be done as a means of preventing horizontal fire spread, not simply to clear an attic space of residual smoke.
    I completely agree.
    Fire Lieutenant/E.M.T.
    IAFF Local 2339
    K of C 4th Degree
    "LEATHER FOREVER"
    Member I.A.C.O.J.
    http://www.tfdfire.com/
    "Fir na tine"

  18. #18
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    69

    Default

    To me there is absolutely ZERO reason to cut a hole here. Poor tactics. As for Chiefy, your an idiot. Please tell me that you got that nickname when you were a kid and it's not your rank?

  19. #19
    Forum Member Chiefy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    201

    Default

    Loved the supervisor brain comment. And no I wasn't suggesting ventilating far away from the seat, vent saw's fine, it's fast, but an axe cut should be done just off from directly over the seat. Gives time to finish the hole before the fire comes up in your face and starts to remove the smoke from surrounding areas while your working.
    And the ladder was a good fit for the roof for a span.
    Good call on the wires, old eyes, small screen.
    Still say there was absolutely no need for 3 on the roof.
    After all is said and done, I don't think the roof vent was necessary.
    Last edited by Chiefy; 06-08-2007 at 10:00 AM.
    Think first and be safe. Your family wants to hold you, not a folded flag.

    Proud member of the Patriot Guard Riders

  20. #20
    Forum Member Hazmat91180's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    South Eastern WI
    Posts
    108

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by TRUCK61 View Post
    HAZMAT no offense but the purpose of the roof ladder is to span from the peak to the sofet end and was designed when houses where stick built and not the crap truss construction which has no ridge. So on our stick built roof if for some reason the roof goes in and the ridge and sofet are still intact in theroy the ladder should still be there where as on a truss roof if the truss fails with there being no ridge everything goes in which defeats the purpose of the roof ladder also for personal reasons I think the roof ladder should not be used. When possible put the main to the peak walk the ridge and cut high and as soon as you're done cutting and push in the ceiling get off the roof. By not using the roof ladder when possible it allows you to feel the changes in the roof condition.
    Well I completely agree that it is not as effective for a collapse in crap truss construction, there are more purposes, such as an effective footing for firefighters reaching the peak, which by the way you would be sounding the roof the entire time you are walking up the ladder. I understand where you are coming from, but am curious as to the "personal reason", perhaps a bad experience with it? To each his own I suppose, but for the time it takes to get that roof ladder up there, should it be used only 1 out of 100 times I think the benefits outweigh the risks/time.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Wet-sided engine with a hole in the tank... any ideas?
    By chrissyca in forum Apparatus Innovation
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 03-07-2006, 12:38 PM
  2. Wet-sided engine w/ a hole in the tank... any ideas??
    By chrissyca in forum Firefighters Forum
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 03-04-2006, 08:30 PM
  3. Thermal Imaging SOG's
    By wtfd92 in forum Firefighters Forum
    Replies: 23
    Last Post: 06-27-2001, 08:41 PM
  4. Cutting Medical calls in Ozark/MO Firefighters cut med calls
    By NFD270 in forum Firefighters Forum
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 02-19-2001, 04:46 PM
  5. Where To Cut Roof Pillars!
    By rmoore in forum University of Extrication
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 01-09-1999, 10:45 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts