Foam System-Concentrate Selection

[MG3610]

There are a bunch of threads I have browsed through that give me bits and pieces of what I am looking for, but I am looking for some specifics.

Our new engine thats aout to be built will have a Hale Foam Logix 3.3 system. The system can provide 3% foam at a max water flow of 110 GPM. This is the equivalent of a single line flowing foam and we would need the type of class B foam that works on hydrocarbon and polar solvent fires. Our intent was a class B system since we have no other engines with foam tanks and we figured having class B foam would be a safer bet for liquid fires/spills.

After some reading, it seems class A foam will work on class B fires. I don't totally understand the science behind why, so I'm looking for answers to this theory. If this is in fact true, I think we might just go with A foam and get more versatility. The tank will be 30 gallons of concentrate.

Looking for some help!

[VanIsleEVT]

I don't believe any Class A foam can replace a Class B foam, some may claim it will. You may want to look at Angus Niagara 1-3%. It's an AR-FFFP type foam that you can run down to .01% for Class A fires so it gives you the best of both worlds with one foam if you only have one system. It is pricey but a high quality foam. We use it in our "B" tank and Hi-Combat "A" in the "A" tank.

[dday05]

I don't believe any Class A foam can replace a Class B foam, some may claim it will..

I've been told you can use class A on a B fire but you would have to coat it with B foam once it's out or knocked down. I was also told some big quote unquote companies have been testing the use of foam this way as a way to save on costs or what not. We all know B foam is expensive.

[Halligan84]

National Universal Gold.... the Class A thing is a smoke and mirrors trick. I'll see if I can find the info how the "emulsifiers" work

[RFDACM02]

Class A for B fires? I've read some interesting non-scientific reports on CAFs being used on B fires, but regular A foam? It dosen't seem that it would be effect both from a tactical aspect or a financial one.

[CaptLou]

Hi All,

Here is a link to recent topic that talks about "A" foam on "B" fires. It may help you out. http://forums.firehouse.com/showthread.php?t=88382

Captain Lou
"GotFoam?"

[mcaldwell]

Everything I have seen, read, or heard leads me to believe that for small municipal applications, class A is probably adequate. We have used thick class A on minor B fires with good results. Certainly good enough for vehicle fires and small spills, etc.

Industrial Applications? Probably not. Big difference in covering 100 gallons, compared to 10,000 gallons. If you have large above ground storage, major airports, refineries, or such in your area or M/A area, I would have to say get the proper tool for the job.


Some other local departments (small POC) are using the F500 style of dual agent foam, and swearing by it. IMO I can't justify the price for our limited exposures, but it might be a better bet than the cost, hassles, and technical challenges of a dual agent engine.

[MG3610]

Today, we went through the list of approved concentrates that can be used with the Foam Logix System and came down to 2 choices based only on reading manufacturers information.

First choice is Chemguard C-134 Ultraguard 1/3% AR AFFF. This says it can be used on polar solvents and hydrocarbon fires. It also states its a good class A wetting agent. This sounds like what we want, so it can also be used for A type fires to get a little more bang for our buck.

Second Choice is National Universal Gold 1/3% AR-AFFF. This seems like its similar to Chemguard but doesnt specifically say it can be used on A fires.

Does anyone have any feedback on either of the two above choices? I have nothing to go by as of yet except for reading manufacturer data sheets. I'm hoping there are some testemonials from some of you guys to help me make a decision.

Little more background. We dont plan to be extinguishing a tank farm fire, our only projected uses are transportation related events. There are no major flammable liquid storage issues in our district beyond what I would consider day to day useage quantities. We would like a foam that works for class A if possible too.

Thanks in advance.

[L3Truckee]

1. AR-AFFF is the ONLY concentrate that will work on an alcohol fire. Anyone who says you can use Class A foam on a Alcohol fire is a liar. Tests done by Ansul show conclusively AR-AFFF is the only agent that will work. See the latest edition of Industrial Fire World for the full articles.

2. The Hale system will only deliver 110 GPM at 3% solution rate. That is not enough for two (2) handlines. Three (3) if you count the need for a RIC team handline (per NFPA 1500).

3. The Hale Foam Logix 3.3 takes 60 amps to run. If its on a load manager, what do you do when it shuts off?

4. Also - when your 30 gallon tank runs out at the ethanol tanker fire, how do you get more foam out of the system without trying to fill the foam tank from the top of the truck?

5. There are only two (2) systems that will work on a rig where you want Class B capability and AR-AFFF deployment; they are the Pierce Husky 12 and the FoamPro 3012. Both are capable to do the job. (I prefer the Pierce system since it came on our last pumpers. And our Pierce rep saved the day by bringing us this info.)

I hope you haven't already signed the contract.

Check it out... you will save yourself and your department a lot of grief.