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    Default "How low can you go?"

    Firefighter Charged in Amish School Fire

    ............

    The Associated Press



    BROWNSTOWN, Pa. --

    An 18-year-old firefighter was charged with setting a weekend blaze that damaged a one-room Amish schoolhouse - a fire he claimed to have discovered by driving past in the dead of night.

    Dustin Shane Gerth confessed to the crime, according to his arrest affidavit.

    He said a friend in his car called 911 as they raced to the Farmersville Fire Department. He then drove a fire engine to the scene to battle the fire, according to police.

    The Saturday morning fire was extinguished in about 15 minutes but did $20,000 in damage. The school serves Amish and Old Order Mennonite children. Classes had recently ended for the summer break.

    Gerth was charged Tuesday night with burglary, arson, conspiracy, vandalism and corruption of minors in the fire at the Pleasant Valley School. Police said two boys are under investigation for allegedly helping him.

    Gerth's bail was set at $200,000. It was not immediately clear whether he had a lawyer.
    As I have said a million times before, vols. are their own worst enemy. Don't forget, I am one, too.

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    We could fix that by making all people under the age of 21 Explorers and keep them from being able to respond.......

    *ducks*

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    Quote Originally Posted by MarcusKspn View Post
    We could fix that by making all people under the age of 21 Explorers and keep them from being able to respond.......

    *ducks*
    That would be a great idea if all FF arsonists were under the age of 21. Alas, they are not.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MarcusKspn View Post
    We could fix that by making all people under the age of 21 Explorers and keep them from being able to respond.......

    *ducks*
    While we are on that track.....

    all overweight, and old Firefighters, turn in your gear.

    There, I just stopped LODDs.

    Hey, if I have to wait until 21 to fight fire, then make 21 the legal age. Free schooling, less responsability. So 30 to drink now?

    Bad idea. Bad bad idea.
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    This message has been made longer, in part from a grant from the You Are a Freaking Moron Foundation.

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    Cool Packground Checks....

    Does anybody know if this Department does Background Checks?

    This is a fine example of why I am such a huge supporter of Background Checks....... I'll almost guarantee that somebody, has seen or heard something from them that didn't quite seem right......

    I've been approaching my Volunteer Chiefs about Background Checks. This is just another example that confirms the need for it.

    I had to go through an extensive Background Check when I got hired at my Career Department...... Are Volunteer Departments mandated to perform Checks also?
    "Be LOUD, Be PROUD..... It just might save your can someday when goin' through an intersection!!!!!"

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    Quote Originally Posted by MarcusKspn View Post
    We could fix that by making all people under the age of 21 Explorers and keep them from being able to respond.......

    *ducks*
    Another good examble of why the internet needs an "Insert Sarcasm Here" Button.

    I really have no sorrow for Firefighter Arsonists, throw them in with Child Molesters and any other person that took advantage of being in a position of trust.

    I forgot the name, but I was reading an older book about an arsonist Fire Investigator. In his trial they made a big point that when his daughter was going to college he always made sure she was in an apartment that had good springlers and fire exits, but when he set the fires he picked places without protection so the fire would move faster.

    Mutts

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    Angry

    as said in an article (cant remember which one) in fire-rescue magazine, "firefighter arsonists should be given the death penalty" or something to that effect.

    they are a DISGRACE to ALL firefighters, they put THEIR OWN BROTHERS AND SISTERS AT RISK, as well as INNOCENT CIVILIANS, who, by the way, we have to protect, because IT IS OUR JOB.

    this stuff just really p!sses me off

    and we wonder why some people hate firefighters

    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeWendtCFI View Post
    As I have said a million times before, vols. are their own worst enemy. Don't forget, I am one, too.
    im with you on this one....and im a vollie....
    First in, Last out, nobody left behind.....

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    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeWendtCFI View Post
    As I have said a million times before, vols. are their own worst enemy. Don't forget, I am one, too.
    Unfortunately, it happens in the career service as well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mikeyboy View Post
    Does anybody know if this Department does Background Checks?

    This is a fine example of why I am such a huge supporter of Background Checks....... I'll almost guarantee that somebody, has seen or heard something from them that didn't quite seem right......

    I've been approaching my Volunteer Chiefs about Background Checks. This is just another example that confirms the need for it.

    I had to go through an extensive Background Check when I got hired at my Career Department...... Are Volunteer Departments mandated to perform Checks also?

    In NYS background checks are mandatory. But the only thing you can look at is if the person has ever committed arson. So the checks are practically useless. This is the exact reason I cringe when I hear someone say those magical words I wish we would have a fire

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    I think another problem, is also call volume? I would bet, that this guys dept., does very very few fire calls.
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    Quote Originally Posted by WaterbryVTfire View Post
    I think another problem, is also call volume? I would bet, that this guys dept., does very very few fire calls.
    So that somehow validates the reason for comitting arson? I know you're not advocating this WVT. But the spin was there. I happen to agree with you.
    The guy was 18. That's a sketchey age. Peer pressure and boredom have a lot to do with this type of crime. I think the all knowing IFSTA should add this one to the reasons for arson.
    IAFF

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    Quote Originally Posted by MarcusKspn View Post
    I forgot the name, but I was reading an older book about an arsonist Fire Investigator. In his trial they made a big point that when his daughter was going to college he always made sure she was in an apartment that had good springlers and fire exits, but when he set the fires he picked places without protection so the fire would move faster.
    Mutts
    I believe the book you are referring to is "Fire Lover" by J. Wambaugh.

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    he just wanted to drive the engine

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    Quote Originally Posted by superchef View Post
    I believe the book you are referring to is "Fire Lover" by J. Wambaugh.
    DANG IT Cheffie, you beat me to it. LOL I was going to reference George's first comments with this ... sigh.. upstaged by the Cook. heheheheehee
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    Quote Originally Posted by HotTrotter View Post
    Unfortunately, it happens in the career service as well.
    From the Firefighters and Arson thread.. with the new addition..

    Box score update:

    Volunteer Firefighter/arsonists: 188
    Career firefighters/Arson investigator arsonists: 5
    Retirees: 5
    Wildland firefighters: 12
    Foreign FF arsonists: 1
    Career "merry pranksters" :1
    Wannabees:1
    Juniors/Explorers:4
    Fire Police: 1
    Two hatters: 1

    Total (that we know about) since the start of the thread: 214


    Lookng at the "big picture"... the career FF/arson problem isn't even the signature of a bumblebee ont he fire service radar.
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
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    Lookng at the "big picture"... the career FF/arson problem isn't even the signature of a bumblebee ont he fire service radar.

    Do most Career Departments do some sort of Psych Testing?
    Not sure if they do, but if so it might help in weeding out some of those people that have arson in thier blood.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainGonzo View Post
    From the Firefighters and Arson thread.. with the new addition..

    Box score update:

    Volunteer Firefighter/arsonists: 188
    Career firefighters/Arson investigator arsonists: 5
    Retirees: 5
    Wildland firefighters: 12
    Foreign FF arsonists: 1
    Career "merry pranksters" :1
    Wannabees:1
    Juniors/Explorers:4
    Fire Police: 1
    Two hatters: 1

    Total (that we know about) since the start of the thread: 214


    Lookng at the "big picture"... the career FF/arson problem isn't even the signature of a bumblebee ont he fire service radar.
    Ron,
    While I am sort of playing devils advocate here... The two hatters and the career merry pranksters and the Wildland firefighters and the retirees and career firefighters/fire investigators gives you a total of 10 percent. This still demonstrates majority of FF arsonists are Volunteers, but in keeping with the ratio lf Volunteers to career in the US fire service, it would make sense. I am by no means stating that its ok, I think one FF arsonist is too many. But lets not make this a volunteer problem, lets make it a Fire Service problem and make every attempt to irradicate it.
    Shawn M. Cecula
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainGonzo View Post
    From the Firefighters and Arson thread.. with the new addition..

    Box score update:

    Volunteer Firefighter/arsonists: 188
    Career firefighters/Arson investigator arsonists: 5
    Retirees: 5
    Wildland firefighters: 12
    Foreign FF arsonists: 1
    Career "merry pranksters" :1
    Wannabees:1
    Juniors/Explorers:4
    Fire Police: 1
    Two hatters: 1

    Total (that we know about) since the start of the thread: 214


    Lookng at the "big picture"... the career FF/arson problem isn't even the signature of a bumblebee ont he fire service radar.

    Can we look at it on a percentage basis?
    Fortune does not change men; it unmasks them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RoughRider View Post
    Can we look at it on a percentage basis?
    See above! LOL
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoughRider View Post
    Can we look at it on a percentage basis?
    Volunteer 85%
    Career 2.3%
    Retirees 2.3%
    Wildland 5.5%
    Foreign 0.5%
    Carreer "Mery Pranksters" 0.5%
    Wannabees 0.5%
    Juniors/Explorers 1.8 %
    Fire Police 0.5%
    Two Hatters 0.5%

    There ya go.

    I am also a volunteer, but I am not one to argue with the numbers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lewiston2Capt View Post
    See above! LOL
    Thanx Cap!

    I does make it look a touch better!
    Fortune does not change men; it unmasks them.

    The grass ain't greener, the wine ain't sweeter!! Either side of the hill.


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    Quote Originally Posted by MarcusKspn View Post
    Volunteer 85%
    Career 2.3%
    Retirees 2.3%
    Wildland 5.5%
    Foreign 0.5%
    Carreer "Mery Pranksters" 0.5%
    Wannabees 0.5%
    Juniors/Explorers 1.8 %
    Fire Police 0.5%
    Two Hatters 0.5%

    There ya go.

    I am also a volunteer, but I am not one to argue with the numbers.
    I was thinking it would be less painful looking at it as a percentage of total volunteer FF.

    Nope, I agree. They're hitting me right between the eyes. I can't say I'm surprised. Our backround checks include arson, criminal, DMV and drug testing. We also require four members to sign your application and stand up on the floor and state the reasons the prospect would be an asset to the company. All that and we still get a few mooks from time to time.
    Last edited by RoughRider; 06-14-2007 at 01:10 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoughRider View Post
    I was thinking it would be less painful looking at it as a percentage of total volunteer FF.

    Nope, I agree. They're hitting me right between the eyes. I can't say I'm surprised. Our backround checks include arson, criminal, DMV and drug testing. We also require four members to sign your application and stand up on the floor and state the reasons the prospect would be an asset to the company. All that and we still get a few mooks from time to time.
    Roughrider.. your FD is doing the right thing. If all VFD's did that, and the NVFC actually did something about the volunteer arson problem, the volunteer arson numbers would be in the single digits.
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
    Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

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    Fairfax County follows some pretty strict pre-screening requirements too. Background checks are done for everyone, even us army geeks with top secret clearences get "checked out" before being taken on as vol or career. Takes a little longer to get hired on, but I think its worth the wait.
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    Get it up. Get it on. Get it done!

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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainGonzo View Post
    Roughrider.. your FD is doing the right thing. If all VFD's did that, and the NVFC actually did something about the volunteer arson problem, the volunteer arson numbers would be in the single digits.
    Who?
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

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