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    Quote Originally Posted by HotTrotter View Post
    Actually there are several internets making up hte internet. There is NIPRNET, DREN, SIPRNET, as well as all of the .gov,.edu,.us, etc domains. So one can look at the internet as many conected internets.
    Given the context in which Bush uses the term I'm certain that is what he means.

    Quote Originally Posted by HotTrotter View Post
    My problem is I have a hard time wasting money and resources. And really, the scientific community itself is divided on the issue of global warming. But it is funny that you bring up the Ozone. I recall severla years ago all of the global warming stuff focused on the depletion of the Ozone. The focus has shifted to "greenhouse gases" . The Earth itself makes most of these greenhouse gases and man only contributes less than 1%. I personally don't believe we can contorl our weather or the climate. To me, all of this talk of global warming is just a bunch of hot air (pun intended)
    You'd be hard pressed to find an issue where the scientific community isn't divided. The greater majority of credible climatologists believe this is very real. There is a huge difference between gases that are produced organically and those that aren't. You may believe it is hot air, I would rather err on the side of caution. If you don't believe we can control our weather or climate that is your prerogative. I do know as a teenager living in the LA area during the 60's we had smog alerts on a frequent basis. Now they are a very rare occurrence. The cleaner air didn't occur because industry felt benevolent. It occurred because the government forced cleaner air standards.
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    Regardless of where the warming is coming from (it is essentially undeniable), we must do our best to reduce our contributions to it.

    Makind in general destroys everything it touches with "advances" in technology. We need to clean things up. Everyone.

    The coal states need to not fight against reducing coal power. People on Cape Cod (admitted "environmentalist" like Ted Kennedy and John Kerry) need to not fight the Cape Wind power project that would supply more than 70% of the power for Cape Cod and emit practically ZERO pollutants.

    People need to do what is necessary. Collectively. It is our responsibility to take care of the environment, whether it is Global Warming, or reducing the amount of dams we build, or controlling animal populations. We are supposed to be the top of the food chain - the smartest and most powerful people on the planet. We don't exactly act like it.
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    Man can influence his environment. Man cannot influence or control the climate (aka weather). The Ice Cap went al lthe way down to Florida 15,000 years ago, we have been warming since that time, not since the industrial revolution. And if one looks at the graph of the warming over the last 15,000 years you will see that the graph is not smooth or linear. The graph contains periods of faster increases in temperatures and times of decreasing temperature. Wha twe are going through right now is nothing unusual and there is absolutely nothing mankind can do about it.

    Ethanol has been developed as a result of this fiasco as well. Ethanol provides no benefit when it comes to "greenhouse gases". The only thing the production of ehtanol has done is increase the cost of food.

    And someone help me out with these hybrid cars. They tout the increased gas mileage, but no one will tell you about the cost of the electricty to run these cars. And where does electricity come from? Coal and oil burning electric utilities. that is unless we build nore nuke plants which have become nearly cost prohibitive to build. Oh yea, can't build hyro electric plants either because we will disturb the rivers, and ruin the habitat for the rare elko-camino spider fly.. Maybe we can gather up all of the lightening bugs and harness their electricity

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    Quote Originally Posted by HotTrotter View Post
    Man can influence his environment. Man cannot influence or control the climate (aka weather). The Ice Cap went al lthe way down to Florida 15,000 years ago, we have been warming since that time, not since the industrial revolution. And if one looks at the graph of the warming over the last 15,000 years you will see that the graph is not smooth or linear. The graph contains periods of faster increases in temperatures and times of decreasing temperature. Wha twe are going through right now is nothing unusual and there is absolutely nothing mankind can do about it.
    Look again at the graph. It shows considerable warming trends have increased since the Industrial Revolution. If you don't believe man can influence climate, so be it. I on the other hand will take the word of those who have committed far energy in this field than those on an obscure message board.

    It is your prerogative to be wrong.

    See. I believe in personal liberty.
    Last edited by scfire86; 06-21-2007 at 11:10 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    Thanks for bringing up Al Gore and inventing the Internet; please see MediaMatters regarding the details on “Al Gore inventing the Internet.” Vint Cerf, the inventor of the world wide web, has stated that Al Gore’s work in Congress to help fund the development of the Internet makes him a “father of the Internet.”

    Media perpetuates myth that Gore claimed to have invented the internet.

    .
    While Al Gore may not have stated specifically that he "invented" the
    internet, he did say In the March 9, 1999, interview on CNN's Late Edition with Wolf Blitzer that gave rise to the debate, Gore actually said: "During my service in the United States Congress, I took the initiative in creating the Internet."

    Create, Invent, however you interpet it, it still was a lie.

    Al Gore was not even in Congress until 1977, much of what is the internet WAS around before then. Al Gore DID sponsor a bill in 1988 called the National High Performance Computer act to link universities and librarys together (many of which were already linked together in various degrees) and
    in 1992 co-sponsored a bill called the information infrastructure and technology act that opened the net up. That bill was co-sponsored by
    (9) different members of congress, 8 of which have declined to take credit
    for inventing or creating the internet.

    http://www.morebusiness.com/running_...d959554096.brc

    The above can show you a more accurate timeline for the inventiing and
    creation of the internet.

    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post

    Regarding global warming. I look at this way. If Gore and all the other climatologists are wrong the worst thing that happens is we have an ozone layer intact and cleaner air. If the detractors like yourself are wrong, the ozone layer burns off and everything on planet Earth dies.....slowly.

    It's a pretty easy choice for me.


    I've decided to take your lead and not believe anything I read in the liberal media.

    Yep, Al is quite the enviromentalist. Back in the 70/80's he was already
    showing his forsight and stockpiling old tires on his family farm. The
    occassional "lightning strike" (on clear days) causing piles of them to burn
    really hurt him on his path to become the used tire king and capturing that
    valuable commodity market in used tires.....

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    Quote Originally Posted by LVFD301 View Post
    While Al Gore may not have stated specifically that he "invented" the
    internet, he did say In the March 9, 1999, interview on CNN's Late Edition with Wolf Blitzer that gave rise to the debate, Gore actually said: "During my service in the United States Congress, I took the initiative in creating the Internet."

    Create, Invent, however you interpet it, it still was a lie.

    Al Gore was not even in Congress until 1977, much of what is the internet WAS around before then. Al Gore DID sponsor a bill in 1988 called the National High Performance Computer act to link universities and librarys together (many of which were already linked together in various degrees) and
    in 1992 co-sponsored a bill called the information infrastructure and technology act that opened the net up. That bill was co-sponsored by
    (9) different members of congress, 8 of which have declined to take credit
    for inventing or creating the internet.

    http://www.morebusiness.com/running_...d959554096.brc

    The above can show you a more accurate timeline for the inventiing and
    creation of the internet.
    Blah blah blah blah. The desperation of Gore detractors never ceases to amaze me. You post a bunch of technobabble that is really pointless. He never claimed he was writing computer code. And most sane and intelligent people understand that. Do a search on "the Google" (to use an idiot Bushism) on Vint Cerf+Al Gore. Cerf's expertise in bringing the internet into the public domain is far more credible than any of the sources you post.

    Excerpt:

    Al Gore and the Internet

    By Robert Kahn and Vinton Cerf
    Al Gore was the first political leader to recognize the importance of the Internet and to promote and support its development.



    And that is the rub. The DoD had the ARPANET and was opposed to the public's access. Same with GPS's access to the public (thank you Ronald Reagan). Gore pushed legislation to move "the internets" ( to use another idiot Bushism) into the public domain. And is considered the leader in doing that. The other eight legislators were probably never considered viable candidates for President. The comment was made during a TV interview regarding policy accomplishments. Legislators take credit for their legislative successes all the time. Or are you going to claim only Dems do that?

    Face it. He could've planted poppies in the White House garden for eight years and done a better job than the current moron in the Oval Office.
    Last edited by scfire86; 06-21-2007 at 11:22 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    Blah blah blah blah. The desperation of Gore detractors never ceases to amaze me. You post a bunch of technobabble that is really pointless. He never claimed he was writing computer code. And most sane and intelligent people understand that. Do a search on "the Google" (to use an idiot Bushism) on Vint Cerf+Al Gore. Cerf's expertise in bringing the internet into the public domain is far more credible than any of the sources you post.

    .
    Wow. What an intelligent diatribe. You had me at "Blah blah blah blah"

    Have you though about using facts, instead of "Blah blah blah blah"? That
    would make it so much understandable for the rest of the folks here.

    Lets remember also, Cerf was pushing hard for Gore to be elected. Surely
    he did not use any liberties?

    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post

    The other eight legislators were probably never considered viable candidates for President. The comment was made during a TV interview regarding policy accomplishments. Legislators take credit for their legislative successes all the time. Or are you going to claim only Dems do that?
    Hmmmm... So my post was a democrat/republican thing? Better
    read it again, and I can type slower if it will help. Nowhere did I
    defend anyone - I simply pointed out items about Al Gore. Not
    republican, not democrat.

    Whatever. Yes, Legislators take credit for their legislative successes
    all the time. You said it. Yet above that you claim that the only reason that
    the 8 co-sponsors of the bill HAVE NOT TAKEN CREDIT for the bill only becuase they were never a viable candidate for president.

    Are you sure about that?

    I hate to prove you wrong again.. But... Other sponsors of the bill
    include...

    JOHN KERRY D-MA
    LIEBERMAN D-CT

    I could have sworn that these two were viable candidates for president
    at some point. You seem to think not. Hmmm. I guess one of us is
    wrong....

    And I bet the other 6 have been up for re-election - another great time to
    tout their accomplishments. Why would they not claim to have created the
    internet also?


    Face it. He could've planted poppies in the White House garden for eight years and done a better job than the current moron in the Oval Office.
    Here you go again. I never came out in support of Bush, yet you automaticaly think anyone who feels Gore is a liar must be a Bush
    supporter?

    I actually sort of like Obama - but his wife scares me. Clinton is the
    most republican of the democrats, but I feel like she can't be trusted. I
    surely wish Lamar would run, but Fred has possiblities.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LVFD301 View Post
    Wow. What an intelligent diatribe. You had me at "Blah blah blah blah"
    My post was no different than yours spreading technobabble.

    Quote Originally Posted by LVFD301 View Post
    Have you though about using facts, instead of "Blah blah blah blah"? That
    would make it so much understandable for the rest of the folks here.
    Speak for yourself. I used facts. You must have missed them.

    Quote Originally Posted by LVFD301 View Post
    Lets remember also, Cerf was pushing hard for Gore to be elected. Surely he did not use any liberties?
    And whose speculating now?

    Quote Originally Posted by LVFD301 View Post
    Hmmmm... So my post was a democrat/republican thing? Better
    read it again, and I can type slower if it will help. Nowhere did I defend anyone - I simply pointed out items about Al Gore. Not republican, not democrat.
    I'm sure you had no partisan implications. My bad.

    Quote Originally Posted by LVFD301 View Post
    Whatever. Yes, Legislators take credit for their legislative successes all the time. You said it. Yet above that you claim that the only reason that the 8 co-sponsors of the bill HAVE NOT TAKEN CREDIT for the bill only becuase they were never a viable candidate for president.
    That's one way to look at it. Another might be that Gore was informing people in an interview of his contributions to bringing the internet into the public domain.

    Quote Originally Posted by LVFD301 View Post
    Are you sure about that?

    I hate to prove you wrong again.. But... Other sponsors of the bill include...

    JOHN KERRY D-MA
    LIEBERMAN D-CT

    I could have sworn that these two were viable candidates for president at some point. You seem to think not. Hmmm. I guess one of us is wrong....
    I said probably. I never bothered to look up who were the others. And I could really care less.

    Quote Originally Posted by LVFD301 View Post
    And I bet the other 6 have been up for re-election - another great time to tout their accomplishments. Why would they not claim to have created the internet also?
    You would have to ask them. I'm not a psychic.


    Quote Originally Posted by LVFD301 View Post
    Here you go again. I never came out in support of Bush, yet you automaticaly think anyone who feels Gore is a liar must be a Bush supporter?
    Not at all. You claim Gore is a liar. I don't.

    Quote Originally Posted by LVFD301 View Post
    I actually sort of like Obama - but his wife scares me. Clinton is the most republican of the democrats, but I feel like she can't be trusted. I surely wish Lamar would run, but Fred has possiblities.
    Tell you the truth I sort of like a Bloomberg/Schwarzenegger ticket.
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    Not even going to bother with replying point by point,
    as most of what you say in the last message is just
    denying, or stating that it is just technobabble.

    I would ask - what would prove to you that
    Al Gore either lied, or just really screwed the pooch
    in that famous Blitzer interview?

    Does Al Gore have to admit it himself?

    Is there any way you would accept that he either
    lied or just f** up during the interview?

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    Quote Originally Posted by LVFD301 View Post
    I would ask - what would prove to you that
    Al Gore either lied, or just really screwed the pooch
    in that famous Blitzer interview?
    Nothing. I don't think he did either. He was instrumental in bringing the internet into the public domain. That is fact.
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    Wow. What an intelligent diatribe. You had me at "Blah blah blah blah"
    At least he has more than tired old rumors and rants from Newsmax and other such reliable sources.

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    Posted by trots
    And someone help me out with these hybrid cars. They tout the increased gas mileage, but no one will tell you about the cost of the electricty to run these cars. And where does electricity come from? Coal and oil burning electric utilities. that is unless we build nore nuke plants which have become nearly cost prohibitive to build. Oh yea, can't build hyro electric plants either because we will disturb the rivers, and ruin the habitat for the rare elko-camino spider fly.. Maybe we can gather up all of the lightening bugs and harness their electricity
    If we could convert the babble of your posts into electricity, a good portion of our energy needs would be met!

    The present hybrid vehicles use a combination of battery power and a small displacement gasoline (in the Toyota Prius and the Honda Civic) engine to power the vehicle. Regenerative braking charges the battery pack. When more acceleration is needed, a combination of the gas engine and battery pack is powering the vehicle and charging the system.

    The larger hybrids (the Honda Accord, Toyota Highlander, Ford Escape/Mercury Mariner, Lexus Gh400, RXh300 and the upcoming $120K lLh460) operate on the same principal, with bigger engines and battery packs.

    The car you are thinking of is GM's EV-1, which had to be plugged in every night and only had a range of about 200 miles in a warm climate.. They were not sold, but leased and only in California and Arizona.
    Last edited by CaptainGonzo; 06-21-2007 at 10:20 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by HotTrotter View Post
    And someone help me out with these hybrid cars. They tout the increased gas mileage, but no one will tell you about the cost of the electricty to run these cars. And where does electricity come from? Coal and oil burning electric utilities. that is unless we build nore nuke plants which have become nearly cost prohibitive to build. Oh yea, can't build hyro electric plants either because we will disturb the rivers, and ruin the habitat for the rare elko-camino spider fly.. Maybe we can gather up all of the lightening bugs and harness their electricity
    Name:  cal_pv_parking.jpg
Views: 135
Size:  58.8 KB
    I'm not sure how much the owners charge you to "plug in", but I'm guessing the initial costs of building these hybrid-rechargning parking garages would pan out in the long run, as solar power is an infinitely renewable resource. I think the price for solar technology will fall, there's just not a big push for it, or too many lobbyists, I don't know.

    I personally don't own a hybrid (don't have the income to afford one), but the price tags (at least on the small vehicles) are falling.

    Still, when I ever buy one (I live in a rural area, such technology takes a while to get out here), I'd do it to slap those Middle Eastern/South American Oil Terrorist nutcases in the face, not because some politician wrote a book about global warming.

    Edit: The source for that photograph is www.evworld.com.
    Last edited by GodSendRain; 06-21-2007 at 07:14 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThNozzleman View Post
    At least he has more than tired old rumors and rants from Newsmax and other such reliable sources.


    OOOOkkay... I will bite.

    Seeing as you quoted me, where did I post ANYTHING from newsmax
    in this thread?

    What tired old rumor or rant did I post?

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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    Nothing. I don't think he did either. He was instrumental in bringing the internet into the public domain. That is fact.
    Gore himself admits he screwed up in the interview.

    Milwaukee Journal Sentinel, The, Oct 28, 1999 by RON FOURNIER

    Asked to identify his biggest mistake, Gore replied sheepishly, "My choice of words when I claimed to have taken the lead in the Congress for inventing the Internet"


    He screwed the pooch....

    Simple. Undeniable. He even admits it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LVFD301 View Post
    Gore himself admits he screwed up in the interview.

    Milwaukee Journal Sentinel, The, Oct 28, 1999 by RON FOURNIER

    Asked to identify his biggest mistake, Gore replied sheepishly, "My choice of words when I claimed to have taken the lead in the Congress for inventing the Internet"


    He screwed the pooch....

    Simple. Undeniable. He even admits it.
    Kind of the way I feel about Bush turning down Bin Laden.

    The Ottawa Citizen

    February 5, 2001 Monday FINAL EDITION

    DATELINE: KANDAHAR

    BODY:
    The Taliban authorities will consider sending Osama bin Laden, the Saudi-born terrorist behind the World Trade Center bombing, to a third country if the West will recognize them as Afghanistan's legitimate government.

    "We hope the new American administration will be more flexible and engage with us," said Abdul Wakil Muttawakil, the Taliban foreign minister, as new UN sanctions begin to squeeze the hardline group.

    Mr. Muttawakil has written to President George W. Bush saying his administration is prepared to resolve the Bin Laden issue through negotiations.

    General Pervez Musharraf, Pakistan's military ruler, said the suggestion of sending Bin Laden abroad appeared workable. He added it was not clear which country might provide sanctuary to the world's most wanted terrorist but Yemen had been mentioned.Pakistan is the closest ally of the conservative administration.


    I wonder which one will be considered a greater blunder.
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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    Kind of the way I feel about Bush turning down Bin Laden.

    [
    I wonder which one will be considered a greater blunder.
    Don't know... Probably a good one for a different thread however.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainGonzo View Post
    Posted by trots

    If we could convert the babble of your posts into electricity, a good portion of our energy needs would be met!

    The present hybrid vehicles use a combination of battery power and a small displacement gasoline (in the Toyota Prius and the Honda Civic) engine to power the vehicle. Regenerative braking charges the battery pack. When more acceleration is needed, a combination of the gas engine and battery pack is powering the vehicle and charging the system.

    The larger hybrids (the Honda Accord, Toyota Highlander, Ford Escape/Mercury Mariner, Lexus Gh400, RXh300 and the upcoming $120K lLh460) operate on the same principal, with bigger engines and battery packs.

    The car you are thinking of is GM's EV-1, which had to be plugged in every night and only had a range of about 200 miles in a warm climate.. They were not sold, but leased and only in California and Arizona.
    OK, So now you are a comodian too!!

    However, the electricity generated from the braking action will be used up to bring the car back up to speed. The gasoline engine kicks in around 30 mph. So the entire time you are driving around town you are on electric. They need to recharge those batteries somehow. As for those solar cells, I looked at setting some up to power some of my stuff. The cost of putting in the cells was cost prohinbitive and not very economical.

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    As for Al Gore and the internet. The first network was developed by some universities in Ca. So it was developed in the public domain to start with.

    Now for Global Warming. I just got this email and it takes you to a great site. Found a couple of others as well. Not bad for a 15 year old. How come adults aren't as wise as this 15 year old?

    http://newsbusters.org/node/13282
    http://newsbusters.org/node/12849
    http://home.earthlink.net/~ponderthemaunder/index.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by HotTrotter View Post
    OK, So now you are a comodian too!!
    However, the electricity generated from the braking action will be used up to bring the car back up to speed. The gasoline engine kicks in around 30 mph. So the entire time you are driving around town you are on electric. They need to recharge those batteries somehow.

    Yes... every time I am on the commode, I realize the source of most of your posts!

    PS: you are wrong...again.

    This website explains how a hybrid car operates.

    http://www.hybridsynergydrive.com/en/quick_guide.html
    Last edited by CaptainGonzo; 06-22-2007 at 09:51 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by GodSendRain View Post
    Attachment 12279
    I'm not sure how much the owners charge you to "plug in", but I'm guessing the initial costs of building these hybrid-rechargning parking garages would pan out in the long run, as solar power is an infinitely renewable resource. I think the price for solar technology will fall, there's just not a big push for it, or too many lobbyists, I don't know.

    I personally don't own a hybrid (don't have the income to afford one), but the price tags (at least on the small vehicles) are falling.

    Still, when I ever buy one (I live in a rural area, such technology takes a while to get out here), I'd do it to slap those Middle Eastern/South American Oil Terrorist nutcases in the face, not because some politician wrote a book about global warming.

    Edit: The source for that photograph is www.evworld.com.
    Currently the energy required to make a photovoltaic panel takes the panel close to 10 years of being in the sun light to recover. It should be cut to 5 years within a year or two. Once it is under two years it will be an actual energy gain based on their expected lifespan. They are ideal for providing remote locations with power, avoiding the desacration of the landscape to run transmission lines, but they are not yet much of a conservation use, but one day soon they will be.
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    Quote Originally Posted by HotTrotter View Post
    OK, So now you are a comodian too!!

    However, the electricity generated from the braking action will be used up to bring the car back up to speed. The gasoline engine kicks in around 30 mph. So the entire time you are driving around town you are on electric. They need to recharge those batteries somehow. As for those solar cells, I looked at setting some up to power some of my stuff. The cost of putting in the cells was cost prohinbitive and not very economical.
    There are no plug in Hybrids on the market yet, once they get their initial charge at the battery factory, all charging comes from the regeneration and the on-board gasoline engine. Sine you would be otherwise using the gasoline engine for propulsion they are not burning any additional carbon based fuel than would already be burned. You really don't help the arguement that Al Gore is not good for the country.
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    Quote Originally Posted by nyckftbl View Post
    LOL....dont you people have anything else to do besides b*tch about our b*tching?

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    Quote Originally Posted by HotTrotter View Post
    Don't stop at Iraq. Include Bosnia, Kosovo, former Yugoslav Republic, Viet Nam, Korea, and a couple I am forgetting for sure. We need to stop putting our troops inother countries. Bring them ALL home and let them defend our own soil. If we brought ALL of our troops home from foreign lands we would be able to line them up along our borders and it would do wonders for our economy.
    If the mission is justified, the purpose is clear, then appropriate measures need to be taken.
    Soldiers are a little different than you or I. They actually follow orders. They don't question them. We sit around discussing the issues like anyone cares and they go about their business armed with their training and breaks everything down to one, simple fact; they have been told an objective and they have no other purpose but to gain that objective. They have been trained to respect authority and follow chain of command.
    I remember a time when that was part of the fire service as well.
    CR
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    Quote Originally Posted by HotTrotter View Post
    As for Al Gore and the internet. The first network was developed by some universities in Ca. So it was developed in the public domain to start with.
    But it wasn't readily accessible to the public until he brought legislation.

    You can argue this silly point ad nauseum. It really doesn't matter. He's accused of lying because of that statement. I don't believe he lied any more than you believe Bush didn't lie about how no one could foresee using hijacked airplanes as weapons when he'd been briefed on just that possibility a month before 9/11.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

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    Quote Originally Posted by HotTrotter View Post
    Now for Global Warming. I just got this email and it takes you to a great site. Found a couple of others as well. Not bad for a 15 year old. How come adults aren't as wise as this 15 year old?

    http://newsbusters.org/node/13282
    http://newsbusters.org/node/12849
    http://home.earthlink.net/~ponderthemaunder/index.html
    Following the leadership of 15 year olds has always worked well for me. While I admire her work and effort I'll be taking my guidance from folks who are just a bit more seasoned.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

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