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    Default Who is doing the most work...

    On a per company basis, what department do you think is doing the most fire duty? Also, what's your rationale? Keep in mind that there are plenty of smaller departments doing a lot more fire duty than some of the big names that come to mind (ie, FDNY, Boston).

    My answer would be Buffalo or maybe Detroit. Ghetto's and vacant buildings = fires. What do you think?

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    Detroit guys are running their *****es off on fires. They don't do EMS, but they would nver make it to fires if they did. I talked to one of my buddies there the other day, he had 6 fires the previous day-5 of them vacants.

    The city shut down about 6 companies last year, so each company is running to areas they never went before to cover. This adds to the delay and the workload. Another result of the cuts is there aren't any hiding places left-the slow stations got cut.

    It's hard to find numbers, but the busiest Engine in Detroit was averaging over 2000 runs a year with over 2 hrs a day of fire service time. I believe they calculate fire service time as on scene until under control.

    Hopefully one of the DFD brothers will show up and explain.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NortheastFF View Post
    On a per company basis, what department do you think is doing the most fire duty? Also, what's your rationale? Keep in mind that there are plenty of smaller departments doing a lot more fire duty than some of the big names that come to mind (ie, FDNY, Boston).

    My answer would be Buffalo or maybe Detroit. Ghetto's and vacant buildings = fires. What do you think?

    "Alot more" fire duty than this??
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    Last edited by MattyJ; 06-15-2007 at 11:12 AM.

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    Camden NJ I would guess
    This space for rent

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    Cool

    Detroit Fire department:
    Averages 30,000 fires-
    2006- 33,441

    Detroit Emergency Medical Services:
    Averages 130,000
    2006- 131,481
    Think first and be safe. Your family wants to hold you, not a folded flag.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KyleWickman View Post
    Camden NJ I would guess
    I would agree. Camden's definitely in the running.

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    Three for Camden. Tons of work, small dept. What more can you ask for?

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    Most full box alarm companies (3 engines, 1 truck, 1 squad and a B.C.) in Detroit are now averaging 4-6 structure fires a day. Before I retired ("05" not long after all the company closings took place), my engine company was doing 3-5 fires a day. Detroit averages 50-60 structure fires a day and some days more than that. They're actually beginning to get more and more occupied structures lately. They actually close an average of 5-6 companies a day right now (not enough staffing for the apparatus) even after the closings in "05". Some first in companies have to go 5-8 miles just on a first alarm fire now, especially with other companies out at workers. Their response times have increased by about 30-50% in some cases depending on different factors. Injury rates have also skyrocketed since "05". The city also wants to do away with the B.C.'s and use only company officer's as I.C.'s. They're saying they may keep 4 B.C.'s (each B.C. would cover 35 sq miles) for 2nd alarm fires and above. These are some of the factors among many that lead me to retire a while ago. The union is in court now over the company and personnel cuts the city wants to institute. But not to fear, all the higher ups (administrators) got to keep their jobs and even got a raise. Where Detroit fire companies would stand nationwide, I have no idea, never did and the vast majority of the firefighters don't really care. Motown or another active member from the department may be a little more accurate but the information above was given to me by a close friend (Captain) that's still working (lousy east sider ) and my son keeps me up to date everyday after his shift. I do know that they are working their rear ends off right now and summer is just starting.
    Last edited by FireLt1951; 06-15-2007 at 04:03 PM.

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    Flint Michigan

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    my vote is for gary indiana and camden

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    Kentland.


























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    On a serious note. They may not be catching the most jobs, but these brothers are definitely doing the most "work".

    http://cms.firehouse.com/web/online/...-Iraq/46$55115
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    uhhh... busiest?....

    i would vote for Detriot but thats just me
    Last edited by JHR1985; 06-15-2007 at 04:04 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Geinandputitout View Post
    Flint Michigan
    You could be close. The Flint Fire Department has really taken a beating in all areas the last few years. Drove through there a couple months ago and it looked worse than Detroit.

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    Camden, Detroit, East St. Louis would probably be my top 3
    If my basic HazMat training has taught me nothing else, it's that if you see a glowing green monkey running away from something, follow that monkey!

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    Quote Originally Posted by MattyJ View Post
    "Alot more" fire duty than this??
    Matty,

    I think he was trying to suggest per capita. Plus, isn't your system set up so that there can be zero fire, but if you sit on the scene long enough it counts as a "worker."

    I had an FDNY guy try to explain the whole run vs. worker thing to me years ago, but to be honest it didn't mean enough to me to really try and fully understand at the time. I seem to vaugely remember something about over or under 30 mintues on a scene or something like that.

    Not trying to bust balls, just curious. I'll even admit that the way our administration counts incidents gives a false impression as to the actual amount of fire duty in our fine municipality. It must have something to do with trying to justify that bottom line???
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    Quote Originally Posted by MemphisE34a View Post
    Matty,

    I think he was trying to suggest per capita. Plus, isn't your system set up so that there can be zero fire, but if you sit on the scene long enough it counts as a "worker."

    I had an FDNY guy try to explain the whole run vs. worker thing to me years ago, but to be honest it didn't mean enough to me to really try and fully understand at the time. I seem to vaugely remember something about over or under 30 mintues on a scene or something like that.

    Not trying to bust balls, just curious. I'll even admit that the way our administration counts incidents gives a false impression as to the actual amount of fire duty in our fine municipality. It must have something to do with trying to justify that bottom line???
    "Workers" are simply a count of runs that a company operated at. It doesnt matter whether it is a fire, stuck elevator, Automatic alarm, etc. Similar to how many places count hours works and such. As for the 30 minute thing, I dont think thats the case. Ive never heard that before, but Ive been wrong on occasion .

    An "OSW" or occupied structural worker is the count of how many actual building fires were fought. The stats Matty posted are for actual fires, not "workers".

    I dont know the actual average, but my company was at roughly the middle of the road for the city in runs, running around 3300 last year. Of those 3300 or so, alittle over 200 were OSWs, but 2500 were considered workers. To compare, the busiest engine on our job ran 5700 runs, of which alittle over 500 were OSWs, and 4500 or so were "workers".
    Last edited by nyckftbl; 06-15-2007 at 10:07 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by nyckftbl View Post
    "Workers" are simply a count of runs that a company operated at. It doesnt matter whether it is a fire, stuck elevator, Automatic alarm, etc. Similar to how many places count hours works and such. As for the 30 minute thing, I dont think thats the case. Ive never heard that before, but Ive been wrong on occasion .

    An "OSW" or occupied structural worker is the count of how many actual building fires were fought. The stats Matty posted are for actual fires, not "workers".

    I dont know the actual average, but my company was at roughly the middle of the road for the city in runs, running around 3300 last year. Of those 3300 or so, alittle over 200 were OSWs, but 2500 were considered workers. To compare, the busiest engine on our job ran 5700 runs, of which alittle over 500 were OSWs, and 4500 or so were "workers".

    Thats pretty much it. I also have never heard of the operating over 30 minute thing, and I honestly dont think there is anything like that. The numbers can be decieving though...in both ways. For example, a mattress in a hallway of a multiple dwelling, with heavy smoke on the upper floors, is often considered simply a "worker" and not an "All-Hands" (or what most would know as a 10-75), and none of the structural fires included anything outside (autos, rubbish, manholes etc.....) It is very tough, I think, to get a good comparison though, because many places count runs differently....a stuck elevator here, is counted as a fire run in other places.

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    Just for a northern comparison, the busiest trucks in Calgary AB are running in the neighbourhood of 5000 calls a year too.

    That's all-in however, no separation for runs vs working incidents. No clue about the breakdown.
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    As some others have mentioned, things are relentless here now. It's gotten to the point where four or five good workers is a slow day for my company. We closed the five companies when FireLt1951 retired a couple years ago, plus there are seven companies that exist on paper but which are closed every day and there are occasional additional closings because our apparatus fleet is falling apart. Plus, there are two companies that are little-used taxis -- no water, no ladders, just four harnesses, an axe, a pike pole and a halligan for the four crew members. They are known as Squad 7X and Squad 8X, fill-in rigs for out-of-service engines, and they are not dispatched on box alarms -- they're only sent to working fires in their district if additional manpower is requested.

    Therefore, the districts are bigger and often times there are large areas of the city uncovered because of multiple incidents (despite Central Office's best efforts to have companies fill in). Now when we arrive, instead of a room and contents, we have a fully involved structure and often times exposures. That aspect has been pretty dramatic. At least we've started taking 20-minute rehab instead of jumping from fire to fire like in the past, although even last shift we got called off rehab. The afternoon nap has become more precious because we often don't get a lot of sleep at night. Now, some companies are busier than others, but other than the airport and maybe Engines 29 and 48 down in the southwest tip, there aren't any rest camps left.

    I don't know how busy we are compared to other cities, but we're busier than we've been in my career.
    Last edited by DetroitFF; 06-16-2007 at 02:09 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DetroitFF View Post
    As some others have mentioned, things are relentless here now. It's gotten to the point where four or five good workers is a slow day for my company. We closed the five companies when FireLt1951 retired a couple years ago, plus there are seven companies that exist on paper but which are closed every day and there are occasional additional closings because our apparatus fleet is falling apart. Plus, there are two companies that are little-used taxis -- no water, no ladders, just four harnesses, an axe, a pike pole and a halligan for the four crew members. They are known as Squad 7X and Squad 8X, fill-in rigs for out-of-service engines, and they are not dispatched on box alarms -- they're only sent to working fires in their district if additional manpower is requested.

    Therefore, the districts are bigger and often times there are large areas of the city uncovered because of multiple incidents (despite Central Office's best efforts to have companies fill in). Now when we arrive, instead of a room and contents, we have a fully involved structure and often times exposures. That aspect has been pretty dramatic. At least we've started taking 20-minute rehab instead of jumping from fire to fire like in the past, although even last shift we got called off rehab. The afternoon nap has become more precious because we often don't get a lot of sleep at night. Now, some companies are busier than others, but other than the airport and maybe Engines 29 and 48 down in the southwest tip, there aren't any rest camps left.

    I don't know how busy we are compared to other cities, but we're busier than we've been in my career.

    Is Detroit where they used to have that "Devils Night"?? If it was, is that still happening every year??

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    Yeah, Matty, Devil's Night used to be a problem but not anymore. The city enlists volunteer patrols (tens of thousands of people) for the three-day period and now those days are just like any others as far as fires. Heck, the city even took control of the name, changing it to Angels' Night. Here's the home page for that effort.
    http://www.ci.detroit.mi.us/angelsnight/default.htm

    By the way, FDNY came into town last weekend and made easy work of our big softball tournament. Again. Jeez, what do you feed those guys?

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    Quote Originally Posted by DetroitFF View Post
    Yeah, Matty, Devil's Night used to be a problem but not anymore. The city enlists volunteer patrols (tens of thousands of people) for the three-day period and now those days are just like any others as far as fires. Heck, the city even took control of the name, changing it to Angels' Night. Here's the home page for that effort.
    http://www.ci.detroit.mi.us/angelsnight/default.htm

    By the way, FDNY came into town last weekend and made easy work of our big softball tournament. Again. Jeez, what do you feed those guys?
    Not to hijack the thread, but one of the softball players works in my house. Ive never seen someone hit a softball as far as he has, ever. Its almost comical.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DetroitFF View Post
    Yeah, Matty, Devil's Night used to be a problem but not anymore. The city enlists volunteer patrols (tens of thousands of people) for the three-day period and now those days are just like any others as far as fires. Heck, the city even took control of the name, changing it to Angels' Night. Here's the home page for that effort.
    http://www.ci.detroit.mi.us/angelsnight/default.htm

    By the way, FDNY came into town last weekend and made easy work of our big softball tournament. Again. Jeez, what do you feed those guys?
    I remember in the 80's, that was an insane night out there.

    I think its in the water....same reason Bagels and Pizza taste better in NYC...its the water!

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    Quote Originally Posted by MattyJ View Post
    I think its in the water....same reason Bagels and Pizza taste better in NYC...its the water!
    You mean the authentic Brooklyn style Pizza from Domino's wasn't made in Brooklyn???

    The best pizza I've had since leaving New York is a place on Va Beach Blvd. Ironically enough the owner moved down here from NY. No one in this area knows what a good slice or a good pie is.

    Give me Cousin Sal's or Uncle Louies mom and pop pizza any day over Domino's, Pizza Hut or Papa Johns
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