1. #1
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    Default Brightest LED Lightbar?

    Anyone aware of a better or brighter lightbar then the Whelen Freedom LED lgihtbar?

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    Default LED's

    Our newest Engine has a 60" Federal Signal JLX LED bar across the front of the cab and two side facing 21" JLX bars. The light output is awesome, even in daylight. The bars use Federal's Solaris LED modules, which is their newest technology. We are very impressed with them.

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    I am prejudice of course since our newest rig has these lights. We have Power Arcs that are incredibly bright.

    FyredUp

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    Ive seen the Whelen and the Federal side by side and the Whelen has a significantly brighter signal.

    In fact, we had Federal LED bars written in the specs for our next engine as most of our stuff is Federal. But after observing the Whelens on the local PD cruisers and the Federals on the Sheriffs side by side on scenes, both day and night, we have changed the spec to Whelen.

    Ive also seen the Code3 LED bars that the highway patrol has down here. Very nice as well. They run all blue when running hot then switch to all red when parked. Cool function. But Ive yet to have a chance to see them side by side with the Whelen. If I do who knows, we may change the spec again.
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    Default Brightest

    I always thought the Whelen was the best until Harrisburg Fire Convention when I saw the PowerArc. WOW - not only is the LED's bright, but with their sweeping motion they are really attention getting.

    On my work vehicle I have a 911ep light - it isn't bad either.

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    Coming from the "installer" side of things...

    Tomar and Whelen are head-to-head right now in terms of brightness in performance. Fed Sig isn't far behind, with Code 3 trailing by a few leaps and bounds behind them. 911EP really isn't a "front runner" in terms of emergency lighting, stick with the big three/four.

    Here is a basic run down on LED emergency lights, and the technology involved: CLICK ME

    The biggest thing to watch out for right now with all the different LED warning products is what "Generation" they come from. The "First" Generation of LED products used lots of single 5 millimeter sized LEDs set into housings to shine light forward. "Second" Generation used surface mount LEDs with significantly better off-axis (read:Visiblity to the sides) lighting. Third generation introduced specialized optics that can "diffuse" the light out and maintain brightness at wide angles, direct the lights to the front (read:ONE direction, low off-axis visiblity)....STAY AWAY FROM GEN ERATION ONE AND TWO. GET THE MOST FOR YOUR MONEY, AND GO GENERATION THREE....

    Another big thing, don't go for the LED takedowns yet. The technology still just is not their for them. You really are better off sticking with a halogen type floodlight takedown or side mounted spotlights on your apparatus.
    In a nutshell, you're going to pay for what you get.

    If anyone has any questions, or needs suggestions on how/what they could do for warning equipment, feel free to send me a PM. I have experience working on fire apparatus, police cars, federal government vehicles (including FBI, Secret Service, and CIA).
    Quote Originally Posted by ThNozzleMan
    Why? Because we are firemen. We are decent human beings. We would be compelled by the overwhelming impulse to save an innocent child from a tragic, painful death because in the end, we are MEN.

    I A C O J
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    Default So....Res343cue

    We are having our preconstruction meeting in a few weeks, Pierce Arrow XT. Currently spec'd....

    A Whelen Freedom LED light bar model FNQ**LED shall be mounted on the cab roof.The length of the light bar shall be 60 inches.This light bar shall include the following: Four (5) forward facing RED flashing LED warning lights. Four (5) forward facing BLUE flashing LED warning lights. Two (2) front corner RED flashing LED warning lights. Two (2) end RED flashing LED warning lights, one each side.One (1) switch located in the cab on the switch panel shall control this light bar.The lens color shall be all clear.

    What would you reccomend? Stick with the Freedom or go with something else? Should we specify 3rd Generation Whelen Frreedom LED light bar?

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    I'm pretty sure all you can get for that lightbar is the Super-LEDs, which are I believe GEN3s. Just poking through the Whelen website. For those that know...are the individual lightheads just 400 series? I know the Liberties use 500 series.

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    I'm impressed by the Power Arc bars.
    www.powerarc.net

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    Four (5) forward facing RED flashing LED warning lights. Four (5) forward facing BLUE flashing LED warning lights.

    4 or 5??? Beter check your specs to assure the number conflict is cleared up so you dont get something you didnt excpect.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ctt447 View Post
    We are having our preconstruction meeting in a few weeks, Pierce Arrow XT. Currently spec'd....

    A Whelen Freedom LED light bar model FNQ**LED shall be mounted on the cab roof.The length of the light bar shall be 60 inches.This light bar shall include the following: Four (5) forward facing RED flashing LED warning lights. Four (5) forward facing BLUE flashing LED warning lights. Two (2) front corner RED flashing LED warning lights. Two (2) end RED flashing LED warning lights, one each side.One (1) switch located in the cab on the switch panel shall control this light bar.The lens color shall be all clear.

    What would you reccomend? Stick with the Freedom or go with something else? Should we specify 3rd Generation Whelen Frreedom LED light bar?
    I love the Freedom bar, and would say it's one of the top three fullsize LED bars on the market.

    As a quick clarification, your requirement has conflicting numbers. You can't have 10 modules AND corners on a 60" Freedom. It's 8 modules and corners on the 60" version.

    I would recommend the FN60QLED model with an extra two pairs of 400 series Super-LED Linear modules. Also, I would suggest that you add in your spec that in the position of the alley lights you have warning lights as well (Standard on the FN60QLED... with red LEDs), and instead of two rear end flashing lights, specify that they be rear corner LEDs in red.

    I would write it something similar to:

    A Whelen Freedom Ultra LED lightbar model FN60QLED shall be mounted on the roof of the front of the cab. The length of the lightbar must be SIX (60) inches. The lightbar shall include:
    *FOUR (4) Corner-LED modules in RED
    *THREE (3) front facing 400 series double-stacked Linear-LED modules in RED
    *THREE (3) front facing 400 series double-stacked Linear-LED modules in BLUE.
    *CLEAR lenses to the front, corners, and sides, with black inserts to the rear.

    Furthermore, the lightbar shall be controlled independantly of any load-manager and multi-plex system(s). Switching for all lightheads will be done through heavy duty relays rated of atleast double the load of the lightbar, and fused to the lightbar manufacturers recomendations in an easily accessible area in case of problems or failures. The first switch shall control the relays that provide power to the lightbar, and the second switch shall be of the momentary-contact type connected to the Low-Power feature of the lightbar. The second switch shall have a protective cover to prevent accidental activation of the Low-Power mode during emergency response.
    An option you may want to consider are the "Cruise Lights". These can be added to any of the Whelen bars on the market today, and are good identifiers for where units are parked when the warning lights are turned off. Essentially what they do is light-up the bar with a colored glow. Essentially "marker lights" in the lightbar.

    Also, depending on roof clearances in the station, you may want to consider two Mini-Freedoms mounted along the sides with a pair of corner LEDs. It adds around 1000$ to the lighting, but increases your intersection and off-axis coverage for when you are blocking the scenes of accidents, etc.
    Quote Originally Posted by ThNozzleMan
    Why? Because we are firemen. We are decent human beings. We would be compelled by the overwhelming impulse to save an innocent child from a tragic, painful death because in the end, we are MEN.

    I A C O J
    FTM-PTB


    Honorary Disclaimer: While I am a manufacturer representative, I am not here to sell my product. Any advice or knowledge shared is for informational purposes only. I do not use Firehouse.Com for promotional purposes.

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    I am not a fan of LED lightbars... I don't think they project the light in the right places. I love LED on all sides of apparatus though. I am firm believer of using a rotating lightbar. I really like the Code Excaliber and the new XL-5000. Whelen doesn't really offer a good rotating lightbar any more that works for the top a bigger vehicle.
    I hope this gives ya some ideas...

    This is what our Spec'd rig is...

    All red Code 3 Excaliber w/ fast speed upgrade, intersection lights, take downs and LED forward flashers.

    We then have over each wheel well... all red Whelen 500 series linear LED lightheads. Which would make a total of 4.

    In the front we have 2 red Whelen 500 series linear LED lightheads. total of 2

    and the rear... we have 4 Whelen 700 series standard LED light heads.
    They do and alternating "X" pattern... the multiplex syste speeds up and slows down the "X" pattern in a random sequence.

    Top Right- Amber
    Bottom Right- Red

    Top Left- Red
    Bottom Left- Amber

    Rear rotators...

    right side is amber

    left side is red

    Front bumper...
    Whelen TIR 8's on the front fascia of the chrome bumper right next to the inward mounted airhorns. total 2

    right side is amber
    left side is red

    Outward facing of bumper
    Whelen 700 series linear LED once on each side both red. total 2

    We then have a Mars 888 light mounted under the windshield... whcih turns off when ya set the parking break along with rest of the NFPA white lights including the Opti-Com
    Last edited by CooterRob; 06-22-2007 at 08:45 PM.
    "I don't wanna hear about it... I wanna see results!!!":-P

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    Quote Originally Posted by CooterRob View Post
    I am not a fan of LED lightbars... I don't think they project the light in the right places. I love LED on all sides of apparatus though. I am firm believer of using a rotating lightbar. I really like the Code Excaliber and the new XL-5000. Whelen doesn't really offer a good rotating lightbar any more that works for the top a bigger vehicle.
    I hope this gives ya some ideas...
    I beg to differ on the projection on the light from an LED.

    Wide angle linear LEDs such as offered from Whelen, Tomar, and the other big players cover the same angles that a rotator would, and maintain a constant flash to the front where as a rotator has "blind spots".

    Also, Whelen offers the VB-47 series (very basic rotator bar), Centurion (again, a mid-level rotator bar with options for LED and strobe), and then you have their Delta and Independance line.

    When comparing Code 3 to Whelen, the Excalibur and XL-5000 are more on line with the Centurion bar then with their top of the line unit. Whelen's Delta/Independance line is very close in design to Code 3's MX7000 base, but with round "bubble" ends and with many more options for the upper and lower levels. The Delta/Independance line is a very strong competitor for the tops of apparatus, it's just not pushed as hard.
    Quote Originally Posted by ThNozzleMan
    Why? Because we are firemen. We are decent human beings. We would be compelled by the overwhelming impulse to save an innocent child from a tragic, painful death because in the end, we are MEN.

    I A C O J
    FTM-PTB


    Honorary Disclaimer: While I am a manufacturer representative, I am not here to sell my product. Any advice or knowledge shared is for informational purposes only. I do not use Firehouse.Com for promotional purposes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Res343cue View Post
    I beg to differ on the projection on the light from an LED.

    Wide angle linear LEDs such as offered from Whelen, Tomar, and the other big players cover the same angles that a rotator would, and maintain a constant flash to the front where as a rotator has "blind spots".

    Also, Whelen offers the VB-47 series (very basic rotator bar), Centurion (again, a mid-level rotator bar with options for LED and strobe), and then you have their Delta and Independance line.

    When comparing Code 3 to Whelen, the Excalibur and XL-5000 are more on line with the Centurion bar then with their top of the line unit. Whelen's Delta/Independance line is very close in design to Code 3's MX7000 base, but with round "bubble" ends and with many more options for the upper and lower levels. The Delta/Independance line is a very strong competitor for the tops of apparatus, it's just not pushed as hard.
    IDK... I like seeing the light bouce off road signs, houses and such. Makes me feel like I am seen. I guess it's prefence, but I've seen some of those LED bars on rig and can barely see them.
    "I don't wanna hear about it... I wanna see results!!!":-P

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    Quote Originally Posted by CooterRob View Post
    IDK... I like seeing the light bouce off road signs, houses and such. Makes me feel like I am seen. I guess it's prefence, but I've seen some of those LED bars on rig and can barely see them.
    Which bars?

    The Freedom? Blade? Which ones? Are they using forward-optics or a "linear" type approach? You won't see "forward" optics to the sides, but the "linear" style covers wide angles and to the front!

    If you're saying you can't see the Liberty, Freedom, Blade, Arjent, etc, I'm calling BS. These are the "top of the line" LED bars, and there is no way you can miss them in daylight. Now, when it comes to Sho-Me, Code 3, 911EP and "small brands", I wouldn't doubt it one bit.
    Quote Originally Posted by ThNozzleMan
    Why? Because we are firemen. We are decent human beings. We would be compelled by the overwhelming impulse to save an innocent child from a tragic, painful death because in the end, we are MEN.

    I A C O J
    FTM-PTB


    Honorary Disclaimer: While I am a manufacturer representative, I am not here to sell my product. Any advice or knowledge shared is for informational purposes only. I do not use Firehouse.Com for promotional purposes.

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    Cooter,I'm not sure which model # the Whelen "dogbone"bar is that they lug around to the fire shows but I CAN assure you that there will be no problem seeing this bar from ANY angle day or night.The Tomar line is very bright too.I don't much care for rotators,too many moving parts.Always replacing bulbs too,particularly on halogens.Maybe 343 can enlighten you as to what model it is. T.C.
    Last edited by Rescue101; 06-25-2007 at 10:17 AM.

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    Cooter- You may want to re-consider the color amber for one of your front TIR's. It's not NFPA compliant for the front and may get confused for a directional signal. If a driver looks in his / her mirror, they may think you're turning. Amber LED's are also less effective as reds. Since you already have the front red whelens, the TIR's would not have to be part of the NFPA package, but you may want to re-think this.

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    You can use amber in the front as long as the vehicle is parked.
    Even the burger-flippers at McDonald's probably have some McWackers.

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    Default sorry for the slight threadjack....

    Can someone tell me what kind of lightbar this is? Probably wouldn't be the best you could do for large apparatus, but it looks like something that would be nice a Batt Chiefs car. Thanks.
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    Rescue101 - That would be the Whelen Delta and Independance line.

    FD1976 - That is a myth! Amber LED's perform just as well as any other color. The biggest issue color drawback is that with "White" LEDs. The White color is actually a blue LED with a phosphorous coating on it to produce a white color.
    Quote Originally Posted by ThNozzleMan
    Why? Because we are firemen. We are decent human beings. We would be compelled by the overwhelming impulse to save an innocent child from a tragic, painful death because in the end, we are MEN.

    I A C O J
    FTM-PTB


    Honorary Disclaimer: While I am a manufacturer representative, I am not here to sell my product. Any advice or knowledge shared is for informational purposes only. I do not use Firehouse.Com for promotional purposes.

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    343,That's the one! That bar is ****ah! Cooter,you want your light to bounce off houses?That bad boy will bounce off sign posts in the next State.Almost too bright.Thanks for the info. T.C.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Res343cue View Post
    Rescue101 - That would be the Whelen Delta and Independance line.

    FD1976 - That is a myth! Amber LED's perform just as well as any other color. The biggest issue color drawback is that with "White" LEDs. The White color is actually a blue LED with a phosphorous coating on it to produce a white color.
    Gotta disagree- We have red and amber, mostly code 3's, and the red is by far more effective than the amber. Maybe the newer generations are the same.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FD1976 View Post
    Gotta disagree- We have red and amber, mostly code 3's, and the red is by far more effective than the amber. Maybe the newer generations are the same.
    There's the problem. Not trying to "hate on" Code 3, but Tomar, Whelen, and Fed Sig have far brighter products then most of Code 3's offerings. Code 3 is still touting many of their Gen 1 products such as the Stiletto, Wingman, and their "economical" LC-LED line. Even comparing their "Optix" style LEDs to the "big three's" offerings, they are a close runner-up.

    With the current technology, amber versus other colors is just not an issue.
    Quote Originally Posted by ThNozzleMan
    Why? Because we are firemen. We are decent human beings. We would be compelled by the overwhelming impulse to save an innocent child from a tragic, painful death because in the end, we are MEN.

    I A C O J
    FTM-PTB


    Honorary Disclaimer: While I am a manufacturer representative, I am not here to sell my product. Any advice or knowledge shared is for informational purposes only. I do not use Firehouse.Com for promotional purposes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by skipatrol8 View Post
    Can someone tell me what kind of lightbar this is? Probably wouldn't be the best you could do for large apparatus, but it looks like something that would be nice a Batt Chiefs car. Thanks.
    That would be a 911EP "MILLENIUM" bar. STAY AWAY! FAR AWAY!

    They had issues with the Millenium line catching fire.

    You'd be better off with a Tomar Blade or Whelen Liberty
    Quote Originally Posted by ThNozzleMan
    Why? Because we are firemen. We are decent human beings. We would be compelled by the overwhelming impulse to save an innocent child from a tragic, painful death because in the end, we are MEN.

    I A C O J
    FTM-PTB


    Honorary Disclaimer: While I am a manufacturer representative, I am not here to sell my product. Any advice or knowledge shared is for informational purposes only. I do not use Firehouse.Com for promotional purposes.

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    We use all Whelen LED products on our new engine. The rear end is so bright that it blinds our guys in the rig that follows. The two amber rotalasers were a waste of money, they get overrun with the LED output.
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