Why register? ...To Enhance Your Experience
+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 22

Thread: Pump Card

  1. #1
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    38

    Default Pump Card

    I'm thinking about making some kind of a pump cheat card. Something that is specific to our engines and nozzles to reference for setting up initial pressures I thought would be a good start. I'm a fill in driver so I don't always drive the same engine but their set up the same for the most part. Does anybody else have anything like this or know where I can see a reference? Also, any other ideas for information that might be helpful to have on this type of card? Any help is appreciated. Thanks


  2. #2
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    1,063

    Default

    Ours has the following information on it:

    Standard EP's and GPM for our preconnected hoselines 200' & 300'

    EP's & GPM for lengths of 2.5" pumped to both fog and smooth bore nozzles

    EP's & GPM for lengths of 5" pumped to our Akron Monitor

    Fritction Loss for lengths of 5"

    Friction Loss for lengths of 2.5"

    The calculation for Engine Pressure with grease pencil markings:

    EP = Nozzle + FL + Floors Above / Below Grade + Appliance

    Basic Diagram & Options for pumping the in-line eductor

    It is two 8.5" x 11" pages that are taped to all of the inside portion of the pump compartment. Grease pencil on a string taped to the sheet and a box of chalk for marking hand-lines.

    Not very scientific and everything is rounded to the nearest 5 or 0. For example no 112 or 118 it is 110 & 120

  3. #3
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    N. Ridgeville, Ohio
    Posts
    811

    Default

    I have one that I can send you if you are interested. I will even try to post it on here for anyone else. However, at this time it is on the work computer, I thought I had it at home. So it will take a couple of days.
    Jason Brooks
    IAFF Local 2388
    IACOJ

  4. #4
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    21

    Default

    Neat idea, but I just always think that if it isn't at the right pressure, the guys on the pipe will let you know.

  5. #5
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    1,063

    Default

    I agree with Ninja Dolphin that guys will let you know if they need more or less pressure. Our card is mainly for our cover drivers to get in the right "ball park"

  6. #6
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    38

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by xNinjaDolphinx View Post
    Neat idea, but I just always think that if it isn't at the right pressure, the guys on the pipe will let you know.
    Thats the reply I get from a lot of the senior guys on my dept. Thanks for all the ideas though everybody.

  7. #7
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    38

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by jbrescue View Post
    I have one that I can send you if you are interested. I will even try to post it on here for anyone else. However, at this time it is on the work computer, I thought I had it at home. So it will take a couple of days.
    I'd definitely be interested in seeing.

  8. #8
    makes good girls go bad BLSboy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    On the beach, Fla/OCNJ
    Posts
    2,859

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by jbrescue View Post
    I have one that I can send you if you are interested. I will even try to post it on here for anyone else. However, at this time it is on the work computer, I thought I had it at home. So it will take a couple of days.
    Jason;
    That would be awesome if you could put that up here!
    AJ, MICP, FireMedic
    Member, IACOJ.
    FTM-PTB-EGH-DTRT-RFB-KTF
    This message has been made longer, in part from a grant from the You Are a Freaking Moron Foundation.

  9. #9
    MembersZone Subscriber npfd801's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Somewhere in Illinois
    Posts
    2,219

    Default

    If you're looking for something with friction loss for various sizes of hose and flow rates, and GPM flows from smooth bore tip sizes, Waterous and Hale both give away friction loss cards that are plastic (don't get ruined by water) and list all the info you could ever want. Of course, its generic info, so you would need to add you losses for how many feet of line you're using, etc. They're basically business card size.

    I have some Waterous cards for my customers, but if you don't have anyone close by that can get you one, I'll drop a few of each in the mail for you. Send me a PM if you're interested.
    "Share your knowledge - it's a way to achieve immortality." - Stolen from Chase Sargent's Buddy to Boss program

  10. #10
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    North Carolina
    Posts
    105

    Default

    These are the rules of thumb that my department uses.

    Friction Loss per 100 feet (unless a stacktip is used):

    1" Hose = 50psi
    1 1/2" Hose = 25psi 125GPM
    1 3/4" Hose = 25psi 150GPM
    2 1/2" Hose = 15psi 250GPM
    3" Hose = 15psi
    4" Hose = 5psi

    Stacktip Friction Loss per 100 feet:

    1" = 10psi 209GPM
    1 1/8" = 18psi 265GPM
    1 1/4" = 25psi 326GPM

    Nozzle Pressures:

    Smooth Bore = 50psi
    All Fog Nozzle = 100psi
    Master Stream Smooth Bore = 80

    Hope this helps.

  11. #11
    MembersZone Subscriber ullrichk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Deleted by the forum gremlins
    Posts
    1,663

    Default

    I created some cheat cards for mym engine(s) that had charts for the hose / nozzle combinations that we use plus varying lengths and flows for our automatic nozzle setups. A typical chart would have gpm on one axis and hose length on the other with discharge pressures in the field. The preconnected lengths / nozzles were highlighted in green and any combination that would exceed 250 psi was shaded red.

    For 3 and 5 inch hose, I calculated friction loss at various flows and lengths.

    Actually, I didn't calculate - Microsoft Excel calculated. Using Excel made the charts readable and easy to change if I changed engines or if we had a hose or nozzle change.

    Yes I learned all the rules of thumb at pump school, but I've never been great at doing math in my head at 0-dark-thirty.
    ullrichk
    a.k.a.
    perfesser

    a ship in a harbor is safe. . . but that's not what ships are for

  12. #12
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    38

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by npfd801 View Post
    If you're looking for something with friction loss for various sizes of hose and flow rates, and GPM flows from smooth bore tip sizes, Waterous and Hale both give away friction loss cards that are plastic (don't get ruined by water) and list all the info you could ever want. Of course, its generic info, so you would need to add you losses for how many feet of line you're using, etc. They're basically business card size.

    I have some Waterous cards for my customers, but if you don't have anyone close by that can get you one, I'll drop a few of each in the mail for you. Send me a PM if you're interested.
    We have some cards similar to what your mentioning that are specific to the type of nozzles we use (low pressure fog). Sounds like those maybe have more info though. That might be something that is helpful.

  13. #13
    Forum Member firemed9's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    Maine
    Posts
    76

    Default

    I have one that I can send you if you are interested. I will even try to post it on here for anyone else. However, at this time it is on the work computer, I thought I had it at home. So it will take a couple of days.
    I would definitely be interested in this if you post it. My guys have been looking for something to have as a quick reference. Even though we keep training on this stuff.


    npfd801 - I have those cards, as well as all of my operators, they are great, but small!!
    Loo
    Lieutenant / EMT- Paramedic
    Protective Services Officer

  14. #14
    Forum Member allineedisu's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    618

    Default

    If I recall, Akron, Elkhart and Task Force Tips already has these. Why re-invent the wheel. Besides why not put some effort in it and learn the formulas so you can be a better pump operator!
    OUTSTANDING

    Make It Happen

    Never forget 9-11-2001
    343 Brothers Who Were MURDERED!!

  15. #15
    MembersZone Subscriber
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Central NJ
    Posts
    1,214

    Default

    Here is one I made using theoretical values. I copied it into word because you cannot upload xls. files to here.

    If anyone wants the excel document, feel free to email me.
    Attached Files Attached Files

  16. #16
    MembersZone Subscriber
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Central NJ
    Posts
    1,214

    Default

    "Neat idea, but I just always think that if it isn't at the right pressure, the guys on the pipe will let you know"

    Unfortunatley this is a very prevelant mentality. If the people running the pumps and handling the lines actually understood the look and feel of a correctly pumped line it would be great, but many do not. Case in point, look at the pictures of structural fires on this site and tell me how many times you see a nozzle spraying a pencil thin stream with the "backup" FF standing there and the line hanging next to them in one hand while the other hand is resting on the nozzle FF's shoulder or air cylinder. Meanwhile the fire burns merrily away.

  17. #17
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    N. Ridgeville, Ohio
    Posts
    811

    Default

    I am back at work tomorrow and will try to remember to get it for a posting. The card is double sided when laminated. It has all the pressures for our preconnects and for different lines and tips. Equations are also included for that need also.
    Jason Brooks
    IAFF Local 2388
    IACOJ

  18. #18
    55 Years & Still Rolling hwoods's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Glenn Dale Md, Heart of the P.G. County Fire Belt....
    Posts
    10,739

    Talking Well.............

    Try the "Notch Method" that I invented some years back. Here's how to set it up:

    1. With the Apparatus motor OFF, pull the Pump Panel Throttle ALL the way OUT.

    2. Using a small three sided file, cut a notch in the throttle every Two inches.


    To operate, just remember to open the throttle to the first notch on all one alarm Fires, go to the Second Notch when the Second Alarm is struck. On a Third Alarm, advance to the Third Notch.............. You get the idea......
    Never use Force! Get a Bigger Hammer.
    In memory of
    Chief Earle W. Woods, 1912 - 1997
    Asst. Chief John R. Woods Sr. 1937 - 2006

    IACOJ Budget Analyst

    I Refuse to be a Spectator. If I come to the Game, I'm Playing.

    www.gdvfd18.com

  19. #19
    Forum Member snowball's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2000
    Location
    Just North of South Central
    Posts
    2,740

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by hwoods View Post
    Try the "Notch Method" that I invented some years back. Here's how to set it up:

    1. With the Apparatus motor OFF, pull the Pump Panel Throttle ALL the way OUT.

    2. Using a small three sided file, cut a notch in the throttle every Two inches.


    To operate, just remember to open the throttle to the first notch on all one alarm Fires, go to the Second Notch when the Second Alarm is struck. On a Third Alarm, advance to the Third Notch.............. You get the idea......
    I knew we shouldn't have gone with those reastats on the new engines!!
    IAFF

  20. #20
    MembersZone Subscriber
    Join Date
    May 1999
    Location
    Here, There, Everywhere
    Posts
    4,191

    Default

    We have them as well. Great for that job at 0400 and your head isn't quite up to speed yet.

    Our cheat sheets are usually located in a compartment located to the upper left of the pump pannel. You could locate it anywhere that is convienent for your MPO.

    Street hydraulics figures are the following for us:

    1 length of 1 3/4= 20 psi MST 15/16ths Nozzle 50 lbs
    1 length of 2 1/2= 5 psi MST 1 1/8 Nozzle 40 lbs

    Sprinklers pumped at 150 psi.

    Standpipes 100 +/- 5psi per floor of elevation

    Akron New Yorker and deck pipe=

    1ľ" tip - not more than 100 psi
    1Ĺ" tip - not more than 70 psi
    2" tip - not more than 50 psi

    Tower Ladder 200-250psi

    FTM-PTB
    Last edited by FFFRED; 06-25-2007 at 12:28 PM.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Credit Card Theft And Scams
    By MalahatTwo7 in forum The Off Duty Forums
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 05-20-2006, 07:38 PM
  2. World Of Fire Report: 07-17-05
    By PaulBrown in forum World of Fire Daily Report
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 07-18-2005, 11:30 PM
  3. World Of Fire Report: 05-31-05
    By PaulBrown in forum World of Fire Daily Report
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 06-01-2005, 07:26 AM
  4. Pumper run away
    By *LHS in forum Apparatus Innovation
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: 07-17-2001, 03:10 PM
  5. RFP's
    By D Littrell in forum Apparatus Innovation
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 09-08-2000, 06:36 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts