Thread: F.a.s.t

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    Question F.a.s.t

    My friend and I are interested in getting our dept. to create a FAST team, the only issue is I dont know how to go about bringing it up? Our dept. is volunteer and I understand peoples biggest problem is committing time to training more then just drill nights. But I was wondering if anybody had any ideas on how to get people to get motivated and interested in it all suggestions are greatly appreciated!

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    Quote Originally Posted by CDFDEngine7 View Post
    But I was wondering if anybody had any ideas on how to get people to get motivated and interested in it
    Have them try it. Run a few FF rescue scenarios on your regular Drill Night. I think you'll find that F.A.S.T isn't, nor is it easy. Once the guys see how hard it is and how much manpower and work it takes they may be more willing for additional drill nights.
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    or it may truly confirm their decision that it's too much work and/or time.

    Talk about it openly and honestly. Explain to guys that they will respond to calls and spend a good deal of time in full gear, hopefully, standing around watching. Initially on scene, there will be some work to do, but the majority of the time and manpower will be standing ready. Your leadership for this need to be good salesmen. There is a load of extra time, effort, training, education, etc. to do this right. All with the understanding that you will (hopefully) never use the skills other than at training. It takes work to keep guys motivated.

    If your interested, Here is our current FAST SOP
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

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    Default F.A.S.T. Team

    The FAST team concept is very important. I am glad to see that you are trying to get a orginized effort tword that goal. When we started a FAST team at our Volunteer department, it was easy to display the importance of the team, and the training was accepted. The biggest problem by far was the actual disipline needed by the individual firefighters to use the team at fires! It is easy to see the need for the team on training nights and when things go south on a fireground, but is VERY hard to get aggressive firefighters to stay together as a team outside the structure when "real firefighting" is going on.
    I say this not to discourage- the task is important. I do want to warn you of a very serious problem that caused us a lot of grief...

    Good luck in your efforts, they are very important.

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    Quote Originally Posted by firemedic037 View Post
    The FAST team concept is very important.
    <pet Peeve = ON>

    FWIW, the "T' in FAST already stands for "Team" ergo "FAST team" is redundant just like saying "VIN number", "RIT team", or "SSN number".

    FAST = "FAS Team" not "FAST team".

    <pet peeve = OFF>

    While FAS Teams are very hip and trendy lately, providing back-up personnel and equipment is nothing new in the fire service. How you implement appropriate back-up will vary with your department.

    If your department is small, a dedicated FAST may not be a practical approach. It may make more sense to just emphasize firefighter rescue techniques for everyone and develop SOPs to designate back-up personnel and equipment on an incident by incident basis. The important thing is that you address back-up as a vital part of overall incident safety.

    Rather than starting out to create a FAS Team, consider making your objective more broad: creating a plan to insure adequate back-up personnel and equipment at every incident. A FAST may be the solution you need or it may not be.
    Last edited by DeputyMarshal; 06-26-2007 at 08:34 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeputyMarshal View Post
    If your department is small, a dedicated FAST may not be a practical approach. It may make more sense to just emphasize firefighter rescue techniques for everyone and develop SOPs to designate back-up personnel and equipment on an incident by incident basis. The important thing is that you address back-up as a vital part of overall incident safety.

    Rather than starting out to create a FAS Team, consider making your objective more broad: creating a plan to insure adequate back-up personnel and equipment at every incident. A FAST may be the solution you need or it may not be.
    I have to respectfully disagree with this theory. This is an excuse to use "back-up" personnel for fireground tasks. First, all firefighters should be trained on self-rescue and firefighter rescue regardless of FAST/RIT policies! But if you do not dedicate personnel to standby, what are they doing? Do they have full SCBA tanks? Are the beat from already working inside? Can they drop their assigned task without causing an adverse effect on the fireground? If you properly address "back-up" on the fireground the personnel will be there with tools at the ready in case of emergency. Do these teams have to be dedicated specialists? No, for most anyone who has had decent basic training and some fireground experience is better than nothing. If your personnel can be trusted to rescue a civilian, then they should be able to resuce a firefighter. Would more training be best? Of course, but not doing anything because you don't have a specialized team is wrong!

    We need to stop making excuses not to have personnel ready to rescue our Brothers!

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    Quote Originally Posted by RFDACM02 View Post
    We need to stop making excuses not to have personnel ready to rescue our Brothers!
    Well said.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

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    Quote Originally Posted by RFDACM02 View Post
    I have to respectfully disagree with this theory. This is an excuse to use "back-up" personnel for fireground tasks.
    And I resepctfully disagree with your disagreement.

    I'm not going to argue semantics. Holding a back-up crew in reserve is a fundamental extension of 2-in/2-out. If you're assigning them to other firefighting duites they're no longer a back-up.

    Quote Originally Posted by RFDACM02 View Post
    First, all firefighters should be trained on self-rescue and firefighter rescue regardless of FAST/RIT policies! But if you do not dedicate personnel to standby, what are they doing?
    I said nothing about neglecting a backup (or "standby") crew, I just suggested that creating a special FAST unit isn't necessarily the best way to implement a back-up strategy in a small department.

    Quote Originally Posted by RFDACM02 View Post
    Do they have full SCBA tanks? Are the beat from already working inside? Can they drop their assigned task without causing an adverse effect on the fireground? If you properly address "back-up" on the fireground the personnel will be there with tools at the ready in case of emergency.
    Didn't I say that already?

    Quote Originally Posted by RFDACM02 View Post
    Do these teams have to be dedicated specialists? No,...
    We're in agreement.

    Quote Originally Posted by RFDACM02 View Post
    for most anyone who has had decent basic training and some fireground experience is better than nothing. If your personnel can be trusted to rescue a civilian, then they should be able to resuce a firefighter.
    Not necessarily. It's not too much of a stretch to say that we might be called on to perform more difficult FF rescues than we'd normally attempt for a civilian. A downed FF may well be "rescueable" in situations where a civilian rescue attempt would not be justified under risk/benefit. (By virtue of a FF having PPE, possible radio contact, possible known location, etc.)

    Quote Originally Posted by RFDACM02 View Post
    Would more training be best? Of course, but not doing anything because you don't have a specialized team is wrong!
    Once more, we're in agreement.

    Quote Originally Posted by RFDACM02 View Post
    We need to stop making excuses not to have personnel ready to rescue our Brothers!
    Who's making excuses? Certainly not me.
    "Nemo Plus Voluptatis Quam Nos Habant"

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    Deputy I guess maybe we're arguing for not. I take it your "back-up" team or extension of two in two out is basically a two person FAST. Though they may not have special training, if they are not otherwise assigned then they function as FAST, the way I was taught. Of course this is also rarely enough firefighters to make a rescue, but it creates a chance or success.

    Basically we allow the FAST to be proactive on the fireground such as throwing ladders for escape, removing any obstructions from windows, killing the flow of LPG, etc. But nothing that compromises they're air, energy or response to a mayday. And their not to do anything until they've completed a FAST size-up and assembled the proper tools.

    And while I agree specialized training is nice, as I said firefighters that have proper basic training should be used in lieu of no one. I'd rather have anyone wearing a pack on the lawn to attempt a rescue than no one at all.

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    Maybe it's just the words, but...

    A "backup" team to me is meant to replace the existing efforts once guys tire. A "backup" hose line is available to be stretched when needed in case another line fails. A "backup" roof team will go and replace the original roof team when they tire.

    None of that is expected of a FAST response. FAST is to rescue firefighters, not replace them when they are tired.

    Like I said, maybe it's just the wording.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

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    Default Ok

    Well I must tell you although were volunteer were not a really small dept. we do have a large roster its getting the roster motivated and interested in the FAST team thats the problem.. Like I stated when I first posted I was wondering if any one had any ideas on how to motivate guys and get them interested... thanks for all the info so far tho!! Its helped as of now

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    Quote Originally Posted by CDFDEngine7 View Post
    Well I must tell you although were volunteer were not a really small dept. we do have a large roster its getting the roster motivated and interested in the FAST team thats the problem.. Like I stated when I first posted I was wondering if any one had any ideas on how to motivate guys and get them interested... thanks for all the info so far tho!! Its helped as of now

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    Doc, im not one for signatures on forums, but I would gladly use that quote!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by DocVBFDE14 View Post
    If you are a firefighter and you are not interested in learning how to save your fellow firefighters in trouble, take your galls tee shirt off and go home.
    One of THE best things I have heard said on these forums. Truer words have rarely been spoken.
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    I'll second that. Just throw one of them into a burning building, they'll get motivated...
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    Its not gonna go over well, but if you can't get through any other way........at your next job, after the fire is out and everyone is a realtively safe position - no hostile fire - hide in a closet and call a Mayday, reporting yourself trapped.

    The insuing chaos should be enough to convince everyone. The only question after that is whether or not they kick you off the department!!
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    In our area RIT is part of the mutual aid plan. For a fire in our area the first mutual aid is a RIT , an engine to the scene and another engine to the district where the fire is to cover for them. Having another dept. do the RIT frees up your manpower to fight the fire.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DeputyMarshal View Post
    <pet Peeve = ON>

    FWIW, the "T' in FAST already stands for "Team" ergo "FAST team" is redundant just like saying "VIN number", "RIT team", or "SSN number".

    FAST = "FAS Team" not "FAST team". <pet peeve = OFF>

    Two of my personal favorites, ATM machine and hot water heater.

    Heres a clue, hot water does not need to be heated.


    Sorry, back to the thread...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave1983 View Post
    Two of my personal favorites, ATM machine and hot water heater.

    Heres a clue, hot water does not need to be heated.


    Sorry, back to the thread...


    And just how in the heck do you get it hotter than it is, if you don't heat it?? I may have hot water coming out of the WATER HEATER, but it may not be hot enough. That means I'd have to heat hot water, hence - The Hot Water Heater........... Any more Questions??.......




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    Quote Originally Posted by CDFDEngine7 View Post
    Well I must tell you although were volunteer were not a really small dept. we do have a large roster its getting the roster motivated and interested in the FAST team thats the problem.. Like I stated when I first posted I was wondering if any one had any ideas on how to motivate guys and get them interested... thanks for all the info so far tho!! Its helped as of now
    You shouldn't have to "motivate & interest" them to want to do this. That gives me a pretty good idea of what they think of their fellow firefighters! Maybe you need to reevaluate your roster.

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    The first duty is to protect life and that includes our own. It makes sense to have RIT (FAST) standing by. One day it'll pay off.
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    When you are ready, let me know and I can sen you RIT bags to demo and train with.
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    Default Sounds good on paper

    Quote Originally Posted by dday05 View Post
    You shouldn't have to "motivate & interest" them to want to do this. That gives me a pretty good idea of what they think of their fellow firefighters! Maybe you need to reevaluate your roster.
    Unfortunately in small communities there are Vol. FFs that are on the dept. just because no one else will do it. Some depts. have a few core guys and the rest are just there to help out the community. Although I agree with you in philosophy, I'm afraid it just doesn't work that way in real life. Recruitment and retention has become quite a problem for the volunteer fire service. This comes from a volunteer who drives 30 miles to work at his career department.
    Sometimes we just have to force feed the unwilling. Cheers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dday05 View Post
    You shouldn't have to "motivate & interest" them to want to do this. That gives me a pretty good idea of what they think of their fellow firefighters! Maybe you need to reevaluate your roster.
    You reevaluate your roster under a few conditions: if you have resources to fill the voids that will be created or you have the "political" or managerial position to make changes.

    If you have neither, you make do the best you can. I'm not makin' excuses... I just happen to be a volunteer (go getter) in a not so go getter department.

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    Quote Originally Posted by shinnfire View Post
    Unfortunately in small communities there are Vol. FFs that are on the dept. just because no one else will do it. Some depts. have a few core guys and the rest are just there to help out the community. Although I agree with you in philosophy, I'm afraid it just doesn't work that way in real life. Recruitment and retention has become quite a problem for the volunteer fire service. This comes from a volunteer who drives 30 miles to work at his career department.
    Sometimes we just have to force feed the unwilling. Cheers.
    EXACTLY!

    I'm a core guy right now, but I'm planning on leaving the department 'cause I can't balance the lack of training or willingness to train with my own safety concerns and efforts. I'm afraid it gets dicy when you try to push people who do not want to be pushed. If the unwilling don't wanna be force fed, sometimes you have to let them starve, I guess.

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