station grant assistance

[ElChup175]

I have been searching on and off for some time now for assistance with station improvement...or more specifically to take a small station designed to hold 1950's sized apparatus, and expand it to hold modern day apparatus in an efficient and safe manner...i've looked into the more common places but havn't found anything, if anyone has any obscure grant sources for these style projects I would greatly appriciate hearing from you

[Not2L84U2]

Did you try USDA? They also provide low interest loans.

[ElChup175]

I would prefer grants before loans because pitching a grant is easier, I have looked into the loans and they are a nice secondary plan, but thats all I have found were loans. If there are grants out there I would rather chase those

[Catch22]

I would prefer grants before loans because pitching a grant is easier, I have looked into the loans and they are a nice secondary plan, but thats all I have found were loans. If there are grants out there I would rather chase those

They do provide grants (rural development), but they also provide low interest loans. I think Kurt and Brian both have links on their sites to the USDA program.

[BC79er_OLDDELETE]

I just checked for another client and you have to apply for a loan with USDA first, and if it's not feasible then they work out a grant/loan combination that the community can afford. Seems different than the last time I ran one a couple of years ago but the few between then and now were in such disadvantaged areas they may have been pre-identified for grants over the loans. Private grants would probably be the lone option if USDA points you at a loan, but that could be used to minimize the loan amount. Call your local office, they can figure it out pretty quickly for you.

[Not2L84U2]

Yup, what those guys said!

If you find something else then let me know. We're in the same boat. We're out of room in our 2 bay station from the 40's and desperately need a new station or a remodel but there's just nothing out there for brick and mortar. We're not even eligible for a USDA grant because our median household income is to great.

[ElChup175]

heres a question...wouldn't a fire station be considered critical infrastructure, I know there are grants out there for such "termed locations"...another question, are there grants of that nature that state "items or facilities critical to local economy, welfare, protection...ect" that could apply...not just specifically worded "a grant for you to get a brand new station"

[WJVaughn]

heres a question...wouldn't a fire station be considered critical infrastructure, I know there are grants out there for such "termed locations"...another question, are there grants of that nature that state "items or facilities critical to local economy, welfare, protection...ect" that could apply...not just specifically worded "a grant for you to get a brand new station"

There you go. It is always in the wording...

[ElChup175]

I figured the wording would be key, but what organization should I consider (an exaple would be a grant for a new rescue would be more attainable from DOT than from HUD) so as to secure the highest chance of success

[ktb9780]

I figured the wording would be key, but what organization should I consider (an exaple would be a grant for a new rescue would be more attainable from DOT than from HUD) so as to secure the highest chance of success

Give me a call when you have time and I will be glad to discuss it with you guy. 800-992-0272 EXt 3111

[BC79er_OLDDELETE]

heres a question...wouldn't a fire station be considered critical infrastructure, I know there are grants out there for such "termed locations"...another question, are there grants of that nature that state "items or facilities critical to local economy, welfare, protection...ect" that could apply...not just specifically worded "a grant for you to get a brand new station"

Actually, a case can be made for them not being CI. A fire station in most cases is not a part of critical infrastructure because of the limited scope of protection 1 fire station covers. They're easily replaced through cover companies, happens all of the time when there are large fires. If a station is damaged, trucks can be parked elsewhere in a temporary station. Versus a water plant, sewer plant, etc, etc where one can't just be thrown together. If a water plant goes down, hundreds of thousands could be without a basic necessity of life.

True, wording does count, same as any grant application. Have to use the right terminology for the audience. But you still can't twist words around to the point that people need to wear boots while reading it.

Back on the original station subject, buildings are expected to have very long useful lives, so there are limited funds for construction of anything anymore. USDA or HUD are the main federal options.

[neiowa]

heres a question...wouldn't a fire station be considered critical infrastructure, I know there are grants out there for such "termed locations"...another question, are there grants of that nature that state "items or facilities critical to local economy, welfare, protection...ect" that could apply...not just specifically worded "a grant for you to get a brand new station"

If you go loan route with commercial bank remember the magic "essential community service" loan. Loan income is non taxable to the bank and you should get about a 2pt reduction in rate 4% vs 6%. Also meets their lending requirements for local loans at what should be a low risk loan.

You may find the rate is better down at your motivated local (or other) bank that with USDA. Certainly the case in the projects I've worked for our city/FD. And a HUGE reduction/savings in paperwork BS.

[19RedSanders83]

I'm looking for grants also, no loans, just grants. Our station was built in the 1930's and we have expanded as much as safely possible.

[neiowa]

I'm looking for grants also, no loans, just grants. Our station was built in the 1930's and we have expanded as much as safely possible.

Good luck as that's the holy grail. Perhaps a local philanthropist.

USDA Rural Dev is the biggest gov't program I know of. With very low (poverty) income level you might be able to get a 50-75% grant. They want/expect you to have some "skin in the game". I can't see how anyone can object to that. Add in some local grants, some fund raising, perhaps some tax $, and a loan (annual fundraising) to compete the project. May have to get outside of the box.

Now if you need something NOW you can go the FEPP surplus route for a surplus Medium Maintenance tent. Will work to shelter your equipment. Your just have to get it to your local FD. As inexpensive as you are creative.

[ElChup175]

Actually, a case can be made for them not being CI. A fire station in most cases is not a part of critical infrastructure because of the limited scope of protection 1 fire station covers. They're easily replaced through cover companies, happens all of the time when there are large fires. If a station is damaged, trucks can be parked elsewhere in a temporary station. Versus a water plant, sewer plant, etc, etc where one can't just be thrown together. If a water plant goes down, hundreds of thousands could be without a basic necessity of life.

I see your point, but the counter point (in order to cause a productive debate so as to procure more ideas) would be that in a rural setting this isn't as feasable, were talking one station departments. The issues at hand with the idea of CI is that there are no other places in our area that would suffice as to provide the services that a fully functioning fire station would provide. Examples are but not limited to apparatus storage (which is essential to the EMS side of the operation to have a temperature controlled environment for medication storage, also due to below freezing conditions a heated environment is essential for plumbing devices on apparatus), Equipment storage (such as auxiliary equipment including spare hose, spare parts for power tools, and rarely used specialty equipment. Also including tools for repairs), Gear storage (such as turnout gear which is sensitive to conditional changes such as UV damage), Radio equipment (such as base stations and trunked 800 radio systems that require special antenna), and document storage...These functions have the chance of being moved for a short time to another location or possibly rely upon mutual aid for coverage, but that places an unfair burden upon the local and surrounding communities. To use an example you sighted being a water treatment plant failure. There are locations where multiple municipalities share water between each other (an example around here is several cities have water treatment plants yet have used a connection pipe between them so as to provide a back up if one city has an issue with capacity others can pick up the slack)...does this help or hinder the CI argument?

[BC79er_OLDDELETE]

Point-Counterpoint, here @Firehouse.com.

True a fire station provides all of those things, but none of them are specific to a fire station. Just buildings. That's all a fire station is. Radios can be set up anywhere, documents, equipment and apparatus can be stored anywhere, etc, etc. Water/Sewer lines are essential to humans living in somewhat civilized conditions. The other major CI bullet point is the population affected by the outage of the CI. Relatively small in rural areas where other parts of the CI definition are scarce also.

Not saying stations aren't important, but everything is run relative in the rural areas you have less people to cover, less chance of an incident, fewer calls to show an established pattern of risk. The not-so-accurate assumption from the money holders is that if there is a fire department in a rural area there is a station that provides the basics: roof and walls. Are there exceptions? Certainly, know of and working with several right now. But chasing a CI designation is stretching things to the point that if someone disagrees with that sole point then the rest of the argument is out the window. Thinking outside the box is crucial in funding emergency services sometimes, but playing in a grant program's gray area by stretching things is what gets people denied.

[Greenacres2]

As long as we are Point-Counter Pointing....

It might help to alter your perspective just a bit. The points cited in favor of CI only affected the fire department. While the FD provides a valuable service, the selling point for assistance with a new building is how it can affect the general population day-to-day and in the event of an emergency.

I'd focus on how the community can make regular use of the new building (in ways they can't now) and on how many people could be housed and fed for what period of time. Where else could they go with back-up power, running water, flush toilets, etc. Not just local residents, but temporary housing for xxx folks from Sufferagette City xx miles away which is prone to flooding, tornadoes, etc.

I agree with Brian--a fire house is a building. Turn that building into a shelter from the storm or a haven in the hour of need...it gets a different life.

Just my thoughts.
earl

[ElChup175]

Point-Counterpoint, here @Firehouse.com.

True a fire station provides all of those things, but none of them are specific to a fire station. Just buildings. That's all a fire station is. Radios can be set up anywhere, documents, equipment and apparatus can be stored anywhere, etc, etc. Water/Sewer lines are essential to humans living in somewhat civilized conditions. The other major CI bullet point is the population affected by the outage of the CI. Relatively small in rural areas where other parts of the CI definition are scarce also.

Not saying stations aren't important, but everything is run relative in the rural areas you have less people to cover, less chance of an incident, fewer calls to show an established pattern of risk. The not-so-accurate assumption from the money holders is that if there is a fire department in a rural area there is a station that provides the basics: roof and walls. Are there exceptions? Certainly, know of and working with several right now. But chasing a CI designation is stretching things to the point that if someone disagrees with that sole point then the rest of the argument is out the window. Thinking outside the box is crucial in funding emergency services sometimes, but playing in a grant program's gray area by stretching things is what gets people denied.

Good point, don't want to play too much in gray areas where a single point is the base of the argument. I am wondering though if there are ideas outside of "CI" designation that would be appropriate. I have researched HUD (somewhat useful, slightly possible) and USDA (again somewhat possible). I have also found a 0 interest loan through the state fire marshall (ohio) that I found while research ohio revised codes, 20 years, 0 interest, sounds great right. The only issue is that the township is near broke and unable to pass levies with efficiancy, so any grant would help us a long way in preventing the walls from caving in on over a million dollars worth of apparatus.

As long as we are Point-Counter Pointing....

It might help to alter your perspective just a bit. The points cited in favor of CI only affected the fire department. While the FD provides a valuable service, the selling point for assistance with a new building is how it can affect the general population day-to-day and in the event of an emergency.

I'd focus on how the community can make regular use of the new building (in ways they can't now) and on how many people could be housed and fed for what period of time. Where else could they go with back-up power, running water, flush toilets, etc. Not just local residents, but temporary housing for xxx folks from Sufferagette City xx miles away which is prone to flooding, tornadoes, etc.

I agree with Brian--a fire house is a building. Turn that building into a shelter from the storm or a haven in the hour of need...it gets a different life.

Just my thoughts.
earl

I definatly like your point. To be honest, most transport agencies (read that as public rapid transit agency) have orders for there drivers to divert to a fire station under times of severe weather. I would also anticipate the local school district has the same policy. Now given that we here aren't too secure in the ability of this building to provide said service. We can provide back up power, water, sewage, and environmental protection for approx 3 days with our generator system and being that we are on well water. I wonder what other items a fire station could possess that would increase "community appeal" so as to become more of a local asset.

Also just some background on who we serve, we run a 300 call a year department that covers approx 2500 full time residents and approx 30 businesses of various size. We provide ALS services, and fire protection to an unhydranted area. We also are heavily reliant on mutual aid going both in and out with inclusion in multiple county wide agencies (ie water shuttle, haz mat teams, ect)

[BC79er_OLDDELETE]

Earl had his coffee this morning, he's on the ball as usual. That's why going after a fire station on your own is seldom fruitful, but together with the local gov't to create a shelter/community center/etc, etc, etc will increase the likelihood of funding due to the increased usage of the structure.

Of course to continue the devil's advocate, if the station is in such need, why is there a million in apparatus in it instead of $500k worth in an updated building?

[ElChup175]

Earl had his coffee this morning, he's on the ball as usual. That's why going after a fire station on your own is seldom fruitful, but together with the local gov't to create a shelter/community center/etc, etc, etc will increase the likelihood of funding due to the increased usage of the structure.

Of course to continue the devil's advocate, if the station is in such need, why is there a million in apparatus in it instead of $500k worth in an updated building?

Two reasons,
One, the people who handled the department a while ago were forward thinking enough to see that we were expanding and the old fleet wasn't able to handle the responses, yet were unable to see that the foundations of the 1920's era couldn't hold the wieght of said equipment, which caused at least a foot of sinking causing structural weakening
Two, grants for apparatus are easier to get than building grants, the actual spending on said million dollars of equipment needs to be taken as 10% township 90% grant style spending.