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    Default How should I...?

    Recently we had a fire call to a near by abandoned lot of land. As usual, the fire was investigated to see what/whom caused it. It came to our cheif's attention that some of our Jr. Firefighters had "jokingly" told a local child that they would pay him some money to start the fire. Unfortunately, the child did in fact start that fire. Our cheif suspended the Jr. Firefighters for two months. As their fellow Jr. Firefigher, I was devistated. I was wondering on how I should approach them about their mistake and how to encourage them to do good so they can return to the department...

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    Don't approach them at all about it, it's not your responsibility to counsel them. What if this child they had "jokingly" told to light the fire had burned himself in the process?

    If they can't be any more mature and professional than that, then they shouldn't be in the fire service.
    These are my opinions, not those of my career department, my volunteer company, or my affiliates. And by the way, I'm not a Junior.

    Buy me a drink, sing me a song, take me as I come 'cause I can't stay long.

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    Thumbs down

    Yeah I agree with WFDjr, god forbid that the little child could have been burned critically or even he could have died, so don't talk to them about it because that was very childish for Junior FIRE FIGHTERS.

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    They shouldn't be suspended, they should be dismissed and referred to law enforcement for possible prosecution.

    What you have is quite possibly conspiracy to commit arson. It is at least contributing to the dependency of a minor.

    If the chief doesn't pass the info on to LE, then he's complicit too.

    Sorry if it sounds harsh, but this ain't no game.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EFD840 View Post
    They shouldn't be suspended, they should be dismissed and referred to law enforcement for possible prosecution.

    What you have is quite possibly conspiracy to commit arson. It is at least contributing to the dependency of a minor.

    If the chief doesn't pass the info on to LE, then he's complicit too.

    Sorry if it sounds harsh, but this ain't no game.
    I'm with EFD. There should be no suspension. His *** should be grass. He does it once, he'll do it again. It's common knowledge.

    As for what you should do. Absolutely nothing. It's not your place to "approach" him about it.
    If someone with multiple personalities threatens to kill himself, is it considered a hostage situation?

    Ryan

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    Quote Originally Posted by EFD840 View Post
    They shouldn't be suspended, they should be dismissed and referred to law enforcement for possible prosecution.

    What you have is quite possibly conspiracy to commit arson. It is at least contributing to the dependency of a minor.

    If the chief doesn't pass the info on to LE, then he's complicit too.

    Sorry if it sounds harsh, but this ain't no game.

    Quote Originally Posted by ndvfdff33 View Post
    I'm with EFD. There should be no suspension. His *** should be grass. He does it once, he'll do it again. It's common knowledge.

    As for what you should do. Absolutely nothing. It's not your place to "approach" him about it.
    I agree with both of these.
    I have a similar story. This one is about a firefighter from a local department. For the security of the department and the city, I have blocked out the department and city names as well as the offender's name because I don't want to get into trouble.
    This person is no longer a firefighter. What I did was I took screen shots of the articles and edited out the names of specific names. The middle article was published first followed by the top article. The bottom article was published last.
    The stories have been archived by the ToledoBlade.com so I would have to pay $2.95 to see the entire story. Here's the beginning of 2 articles. It's all they will show me for free.
    Photo Sharing and Video Hosting at Photobucket
    Photo Sharing and Video Hosting at Photobucket

    The two people he paid were both juveniles.
    Sorry for the long response, but the fire service isn't a game. This guy is VERY lucky no one was injured on the scene. There were three mobile home fires in the span of two or three months including the fire which he brought on. So there was a chance of him responding to something. Sadly, he didn't make his own run. I can include pictures of the scenes, but I will not name the person or department(s) involved.
    Firefighter/EMT
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    Quote Originally Posted by EFD840 View Post
    They shouldn't be suspended, they should be dismissed and referred to law enforcement for possible prosecution.

    What you have is quite possibly conspiracy to commit arson. It is at least contributing to the dependency of a minor.

    If the chief doesn't pass the info on to LE, then he's complicit too.

    Sorry if it sounds harsh, but this ain't no game.
    EXACTLY! Junior or not, these kids need to be taught a lesson. Even if they are young, they should still be held accountable for their actions. If their training in the department junior program has not taught them better than to tell an impressionable young child to set a fire for them, then there is no place for them in the fire department now or ever in the future.

    Thank the good lord that the little child did not get hurt or worse!

    Firegurl24, don't say anything to them about it, this is not your concern. Just be extremely glad that the entire junior program didn't get AXED because of the irresponsible actions of those two guys!

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    @Firegurl24: The only thing you should do about this is.... learn from their mistake. It was a decent size mistake, so make sure you don't repeat it - EVER!

    As for the two who told the boy to do it, they should be ashamed of themselves. Of all people, they're Jr. Firefighters, so they know what can and has happened at fires. Imagine how they would feel if (God forbid) a firefighter went down inside that fire, and was killed. You know how serious it would have been then? They should be lucky to only be suspended for 2 months. Some of the things I've heard about my department that people got suspended for were not as serious as this, and they got 9 months! I would have expected expulsion for something of this nature.

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    Im with everyone on this, he should've been removed not suspended. What happens next time when he "jokingly" tells a kid to light a house on fire?
    NJ FFII/EMT-B

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    I would have taken them both out back and taught them a lesson.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EFD840 View Post
    They shouldn't be suspended, they should be dismissed and referred to law enforcement for possible prosecution.
    It's not an either-or issue: They should have been both suspended permanently AND referred for prosecution. That sh*t just doesn't fly.
    "Nemo Plus Voluptatis Quam Nos Habant"

    The Code is more what you'd call "guidelines" than actual rules.

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    firegurl24...

    Here is how you deal with it.

    Distance yourself from them.

    Set a higher standard for yourself and project that so the citizens see your group isn't a bunch of junior arsonists.

    Realiaze that at the very least they should be gone from the fire epartment and more than likely should be prosecuted.

    Harsh? Possibly, but do you want to be labeled as a junior arsonist right along side them?

    FyredUp

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    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    firegurl24...

    Here is how you deal with it.

    Distance yourself from them.

    Set a higher standard for yourself and project that so the citizens see your group isn't a bunch of junior arsonists.

    Realiaze that at the very least they should be gone from the fire epartment and more than likely should be prosecuted.

    Harsh? Possibly, but do you want to be labeled as a junior arsonist right along side them?

    FyredUp

    Good advice worth taking. Couldn't have said it better myself, well except that "fire epartment" thing.. Sorry Fyred, I had to...

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    I agree with the general consensus here. It is one thing to hope for a fire, but another to go and start one, or have someone else start it for something to see or do. What part of PROTECT lives and property is hard to understand?


    RFxplr326....If the fire stuff doesn't work out for you, I'm sure you could easily get a career with the U.S. Censorship Bureau.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jccrabby3084 View Post
    I agree with the general consensus here. It is one thing to hope for a fire, but another to go and start one, or have someone else start it for something to see or do. What part of PROTECT lives and property is hard to understand?


    RFxplr326....If the fire stuff doesn't work out for you, I'm sure you could easily get a career with the U.S. Censorship Bureau.
    Thanks brotha. I'll have to check that out for a side job .

    PS= His sentencing is July 9th. I will fill you all in.
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    You might want to censor out any information relating to the stories. They were extremely easy to dig up.

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    All it would look like is this if he did that... "Yesterday someone did something to someone that caused them to do something stupid. Police are investigating."
    "...We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
    For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
    Shall be my brother;..." - King Henry V - Shakespeare

    Quote Originally Posted by Catch22 View Post
    It's not the brightest thing to come into a topic and try to provoke a bunch of guys/gals with more time on the firehouse crapper than you do in the firehouse.
    "crispitycrunchitypeanutbuttery t0ast" - DFurtman

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    Quote Originally Posted by jccrabby3084 View Post
    I agree with the general consensus here. It is one thing to hope for a fire, but another to go and start one, or have someone else start it for something to see or do. What part of PROTECT lives and property is hard to understand?


    RFxplr326....If the fire stuff doesn't work out for you, I'm sure you could easily get a career with the U.S. Censorship Bureau.
    I wouldn't even hope for a fire. (If someone has a fire, that means that someone has a loss.)
    Now here is something that you can HOPE for:

    If someone were to have a fire, I would hope that we respond quick enough and do a good enough job so that we can minimize their loss. Whether it be life or property. For this is our calling to be a firefighter!!!
    Just someone trying to help! (And by the way....Thanks for YOUR help!)

    Aggressive does not have to equal stupid.

    ** "The comments made here are this person's views and possibly that of the organizations to which I am affiliated" **

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    Quote Originally Posted by THEFIRENUT View Post
    I wouldn't even hope for a fire. (If someone has a fire, that means that someone has a loss.)
    Now here is something that you can HOPE for:

    If someone were to have a fire, I would hope that we respond quick enough and do a good enough job so that we can minimize their loss. Whether it be life or property. For this is our calling to be a firefighter!!!


    No kidding.

    However, go look on a similar type of thread in the firefighter forum. There was a similar thread to how people felt about wanting jobs etc. Many were FF's on for years and stated they still wanted workers. OK, to be fair then, to quote how someone stated there. I don't WANT a fire, yet if one came in I would WANT to be working that day and my station being called in. How's that for you then?

    Every FF knows that if they go out, someone is having a bad day. So forgive me if I still like to get the tones and have a chance to do the job I worked hard to get, use the skills and knowledge I acquired and the opportunity to make a difference.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RedFox0457 View Post
    You might want to censor out any information relating to the stories. They were extremely easy to dig up.
    Quote Originally Posted by t0asty
    All it would look like is this if he did that... "Yesterday someone did something to someone that caused them to do something stupid. Police are investigating."
    Or it would look like this- "Yesterday, there were over 5,000 incidents reported to authorities in a state. Police, TSA, NHTSA, and State Police/Highway Patrol are investigating."

    If someone really wanted to look it up, no matter how much information I take out, they're going to find it.
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    You shouldn't tell them anything. Obviously those two knuckleheads have never had their house burn down. I think they should be forced to intern at a Burn Center. They ought to help the nurses scrub the skin off a burn victim in a giant steel bathtub with a sponge similar to steel wool. They ought to take turns watching the patients on suicide watch to make sure they don't unplug their breathing tubes. They ought to see what a small child looks like when it has been charred in a fully-involved house fire.

    Gruesome as it is, fire is not a toy.
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    I'm also with the consensus.

    This is a less-than-zero tolerance issue. The two miscreants, being merely juniors when they committed their misdeed, do not even merit the label of "mutt".

    I recognize that I was given a fair amount of leeway and forgiveness when I was a serious pain in the ***** juvenile fire buff years ago, but I would NEVER have dreamt of starting a fire, joking or otherwise.

    Examples must be made, and your agency should distance themselves from any hint of association with this kind of behavior and poor judgement. As someone else said, consider yourself lucky that your entire program didn't get whacked. I am appalled that they would be considered for reinstatement at all.

    What should you do? Just do your job.
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    and is willing to take command. Very often, that individual is crazy. - Dave Barry.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RFxplr326 View Post

    PS= His sentencing is July 9th. I will fill you all in.
    Just as I said I would... here you go.
    http://www.toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs...EWS02/70710009
    He got 5 years in prison as well as a un-determined amount of restitution.
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    Unhappy Distraught

    Although I have no prior relation to these Junior Firefighters who paid off a child to start a fire, I am distraught over how any person could do this. Answering your question, You should not approach these individuals personally but bring the issue to a responsible admainistrator such as a chief which it looks like you already have. I commend you for your concern, as all of us would be if this were to happen at our department. Be safe, and please don't pay anyone to start a fire.
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    We had a simliar situation in our area. A local 18 yr old firefighter was caught starting fires so he could be first on scene. After setting almost 20 fires he was caught and arrested. He was relieved of all duties to the fire dept. He has disgraced his fire dept, family, friends, and himself. Firegurl learn from your fellow firefighters mistakes. They should be dismissed from the fire dept. and never allowed on one again. What if they child had been hurt or posibbly killed. How ywould they have felt if that had happen. People don't think before they act and that's what gets others hurt.
    One firefighter....one passion. and one hell of a b!tch if you rub me the wrong way.


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