1. #26
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    All tools have their goos points and bad points. The operator makes the tool work. The tool will not do it by itself. Having a good tool helps.

    With the quality of tools out there today... it really comes down to how much you can buy a system for as well as how quick it can be fixed when it breaks. Thats the customer service part.

    If the customer service part sucks... then another tool could be bought. All the tools do the same thing. There may be some bells and whistles with the individual systems... but all in all I could do pretty much the same things with:

    Genesis
    TNT
    Hurst
    Holmatro
    Res-Q-tec
    Amkus
    Phoneix
    Champion
    ... and any others I missed.

    There are your names.
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  2. #27
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    Well I believe this is what you were looking for:

    We recently evaluated Hurst, Holmatro and Amkus. All worked well, in the end we decided that by a fairly decent margin we felt:

    the Holmatro was the best match for us. The tools were relatively light, most liked the twist throttle and the new CORE hose was the real shining star (I know Hurst now has this too). The ability to change tools "on the fly" and the quick connections just make sense to us.

    The Amkus was a close second for weight and ergonomics, but I personally didn't like the way the hose was always in my way. It seems I was fighting to keep the hose out of the work all the time. And a few people weren't happy with the rotating handle that seemed to move around too easy.

    The Hurst worked well, but hadn't changed the design much so they're heavy and unwieldy in comparison. While I could specifically single out tools from each, it wouldn't be relevant as we'll be buying a set, not mixing tools.

    I am interested in trying the Genesis as well, before our final decision is made next month. We'll be outfitting a new rescue pumper with a full set of new tools.

    BTW: Of course the operator is the single greatest factor in the success or failure of the operation. But take the same operator and give him/her better tools? Wouldn't this be an improvement? And if the question is "market research" GOOD, please let the manufacturers know what works, what doesn't and what we'd like to see. It's fairly obvious Hurst didn't do that while they were the reigning champs of extrication tools.
    Last edited by RFDACM02; 09-27-2007 at 10:17 AM.

  3. #28
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    most liked the twist throttle
    Ya know, if you are only working with the tool for a few minutes, the twist throttle is not bad...but it you spend a lot of time....

    This past weekend, we did a "fair" all day and I spent a good 2 hours worth of vehicle time. I can tell you flat out, I would pay to have that damn throttle replaced with a thumb toggle. My wrist and forearm are still a little sore. And 3 times, my hand got squeezed into the vehicle.

    I like the Holmatro tools. We use them and just purchased another. But I sure miss my Hurst thumb toggles.

    CORE technology - great stuff. Hurst version - not quite at the same level as the CORE....yet.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

  4. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bones42 View Post
    Ya know, if you are only working with the tool for a few minutes, the twist throttle is not bad...but it you spend a lot of time....
    Good point, our trial only allowed each operator minimal time with each tool. Though I'm not so concerned with the all day fair (doing one next week). I've done them in the past with our Hurst tools and had the sore thumb too. Kinda like snowmobiling all day.

  5. #30
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    Hi Guys

    I have been following this thread, and it seem to have come detracted from the original post, with some crash comments being made,

    The original question simply asked what tools people simply prefered against other makes.

    Yes the skill of the operator is of upmost importence, with no skill little will be achieved that is why we have training.

    However it cant be that hard to simply say what tools you prefer, i know there are tools that i personally like as against other makes, regardless of my skill level, a world class sports person will have the best skill but will still prefer a certain piece of equipment to carry out their sport.

    So why cant we just give a good answer without rude comments. To the simple question that DCFD1415 asked.

    And yes the tool is important, as we all know there is always the right tool for the right job, not all tools are rated for todays modern materials.

    When you go out, do you not ask what would be best to wear, shirt tie etc.

    You dont say it depends on the wearer do we, or how good they are at dressing!

    Sorry if some of these points upset, but it amazes me how simple questions turn into a hormonal battle as to who knows best, instead of answering the original question.

    stay safe

  6. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonnycutter View Post
    Hi Guys

    However it cant be that hard to simply say what tools you prefer, i know there are tools that i personally like as against other makes, regardless of my skill level, a world class sports person will have the best skill but will still prefer a certain piece of equipment to carry out their sport.

    So why cant we just give a good answer without rude comments. To the simple question that DCFD1415 asked.
    So what tools do you like, which don't you and why?

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    Talking

    He He good point, here is my answer.

    WE currently use Holmatro tools with the Core system hose, which is very good and quick to set up, with there only being 1 connection at each end of the hose, and there is no problem with the hose kinking every few mins. It also removes the risk of high pressure fluid injection from burst hose. Also tool operation is very simple and manoverable.

    However personnely i prefer the Webber tools, i found them to be very effective and with the duel speed option on the generators, giving 2 different tool speeds, i have found this to very beneficial. Where the Holmatro Dedicated cutter speed is slightly slower, which i know in the long run doesnt make to much difference, but still i personnely like the Webber tools.

    Both Makes are top of the range and tool operator skill is good, but a choice can still be made as to which any user may prefer.


  8. #33
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    Default New tools

    Hilti is coming out with a 36V Recip Saw this next summer. Last week during USAR training we used a 24V model to cut A,B, and C posts on both sides of a junk car and then just started playing. The battery lasted until the car had no top, or doors, and we were working on the frame. Needless to say it was a good tool. I also agree with others in the fact that the user's knowledge and experience will facilitate the safe and efficent removal of victims from any situation...but good tools help a lot.

  9. #34
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    jonnycutter - I'm curious as to where you live. You will not find Webber tools in the United States - Webber tools in the US are private labeled by American Rescue Technology as Genesis tools.

    Although I have not used them departments that have them seem to like them.

  10. #35
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    Thumbs up

    Hey Rescuemaster,

    I live in the UK, where a lot of Fire and Rescue services use Webber, a long with a lot of other makes.

  11. #36
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    Adam,Before you buy, make sure to road test the Resqtek green line(EWO).We currently use Holmatro but I was favorably impressed when we tried the green line.I've got a dealer out of NY(good friend)if you need the number.I'm SURE you could talk him into taking a mini vaca in Me.You also ought to check out the lift bags. T.C.

  12. #37
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    Bones,you got anybody else that can twist a wrist? Delegate,man,delegate! Haven't I taught you nuttin'? Hehe T.C.

  13. #38
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    1. It's all about the operator..and the brain inside their head. Any monkey can operate a spreader, cutters, or ram..but to know what you are doing with it is a much different.

    2. I've used many tools..the bulk being Hurst, I now have TNT. I much prefer the Hurst tools as I feel the balance is better with how I hold and operate. With the TNT they are just unbalanced.(for me)

    As for any extrication tool, they will all have good and bad points...
    'Adversus incendia excubias nocturnas vigilesque commentus est"

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  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rescue101 View Post
    Bones,you got anybody else that can twist a wrist? Delegate,man,delegate! Haven't I taught you nuttin'? Hehe T.C.
    Was a demo day and my station for the event. You have taught me PLENTY!
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

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    Anyone familiar with Champion Rescue Tools, and what is your opinion of quality and service.

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    Does anyone have experience with Champion Rescue Tools, quality, service, operation.

  17. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by rescuechief View Post
    Does anyone have experience with Champion Rescue Tools, quality, service, operation.
    We have the Champion B.E.A.S.T. at one of the race venues that I work with. I have used many different brands of tools through the years, and I avoid the "this tool is better than that tool" foolishness we see here. With that said, I am satisfied with the quality of the Champion Tool and have found nothing that concerns me with hot is is made. Service has been top-notch by the dealer (Dominion Fire Equipment) who has gone out of their way to be sure we were happy with the tool. Operation is just like a Hurst or a Phoenix. Similar thumb control on the tool to those brands. The Champion power unit has surprised me with how well it works. While it is largely due to the Honda motor, I still have never seen a power unit that starts as well as this one... there has to be some degree of compatibility to the pump to make the motor work so well. As for the operation of the B.E.A.S.T., I have said in another thread that I believe this tools will revolutionize how others look at making their tools. I terrific spreader and an awesome cutter, all rolled up in one tool that can be switched in less than 30 seconds.... you can't go wrong.
    Richard Nester
    Orrville (OH) Fire Dept.

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    My Dept. uses the EWO line of ResQtec. We have had them about a year and love them. Our mutual aid Dept. has a set of Hurst tools that are about 8 years old so I havent used a lot of other brands. We demoed several brands before deciding on the ResQtec and our main reson was that at the time of purchase they had more force than the other ones. One other brand was close but we didnt like the dealer so we have a set of resQtec tools and are very satisfied. They seem to be a bit heavier than some other brands, but like I say they had more power so we decided it was worth it.

  19. #44
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    As far as Hydraulic tools. Pretty much anything works these days. They're all built to high standards and the competion amongst the manufactures has made them all more powerful and easier to use then ever before. My personal choice goes towards the Lukas/Centaur/Hurst High Pressure line. This is the line of tools my company uses, but I've formed some opinions based on previous experiances.

    I have extensive experience with Hurst (5000psi, both old and new). These are probably the most powerful tools I've used yet. However, they are heavy and the thumb control can be finiky at times, especially in cold weather.

    The Holmatro tools are not bad, in part because of their light weight and speed when unloaded, but they seem to lack the "oomph" untill that second stage kicks in and holds for a while. Several times I've gotten the tools stuck on because the twist grip has beome jammed against the car or other objects and then you have to power down the tool and cut around it to free it. Also, in high use areas that I used to frequent, the Holmatro tools seem to develop stress fractures easily around the hinge points, which was becomming a very common problem in the 27" Spreaders. I also haven't used a Holmatro tool that has a few years of use that hasn't leaked. The "Core Technology" (god I'm tired of that term) seems like a good idea, but I don't see where it is actually worth the amount of moeny it costs to retrofit existing equipment. Of course, if you're going to purchase a tool set new, then by all means it's not bad, but I don't see the feasability in retrofitting existing. I can think of better ways to spend that kind of money to update my rig.

    The Lucas/Centaur/Hurst High Pressure (all the same toys, different names over the years) seems to have (IMHO) a very good balance between the high and constant power of the Hurst product line, while offering lighter the lighter weight of the Holmatro line. The controls work very well, and it's a fabulous mix of the Holmatro twist control versus the Hurst Thumb trigger. It's my opinion that it's the best of both worlds. It's also been dead on balls reliable for us as well and hasn't found anything it cant cut or spread through yet... where I did have the famous Orange tools give up on me before.

    I honestly think that the Holmatro tools are as popular as they are around my area because of the sales and service force behind them. Some of the Holmatro guys (ESI) seem to push his product on you and bash the others. Guardian (Hurst/Lucas) will demo what their product can do, but also tells you honestly what it's weak at. If there was ever a head to thead competition, it would be interesting to see what comes out on top.
    FTM-PTB DTRT

    Everything I state on here is to support and aid my fellow firefighters. Everything I post is my opinion only, and in no way should be taken as an official opinion of any Company, Department, or Municipality I represent... oh and this includes Pierce Mfg, as so their legal department has advised me; since they apparently also invented the right to control "Free Speech".

  20. #45
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    DC, thanks for asking this question. My department is about to purchase some tools and I have been tasked with what tool to get. All the help I can get is great....

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    Our company currently has Holmatro tools. Prier to purchase, we had other manufactures come in with their tools and we put them to work. All the tools worked well!!! Some worked better then others. As mentioned before it comes down to personal preference. The weight of the tool, control features, just to name a few. In my opinion you can have the best tools money can buy, but if you have operators that can't run them, you might as well be using and tools.

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    Thumbs up We're pro-genesis

    As far as I know, Genesis is the only tool on the market that proves their ability to cut this boron steel stuff. See the video at www.genesisrescue.com. The local rep said the post cut in the video is the toughest B post in the industry, located in the new Volvo and Subaru (per State Farm Insurance). He gave me a heads up that if another manufacturer rep says they can cut it, tell them you want proof...valid point I suppose- if they can actually do it, they must have some proof, right? Let me know if anyone has proof that another brand can cut this stuff besides Genesis- I'd be curious to see since we have multiple tool brands surrounding our city.

    We've got 9 sets of Genesis- it is nothing less than impressive...good luck

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    Default My last post

    I'm not trying to push this brand down your throat. What works for us might not work for others. You have to do demo's and see when its time to buy. I have all of this "ability to cut" stuff stuck in my head because my committee just worked on buying new combi-tools and the rep was fillng us in on whats the current chit-chat in the rescue tool market. Sorry to have come off like I was pressing this down your
    throats

  24. #49
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    Boron steel cutting.

    Holmatro Cutter
    Been there, done that. Over a year ago.

    (nothing against Genesis tools, but they are not the only ones nor the originators - Do they use the same Marketing firm as Pierce? )
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

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    We got the AFG grant for extrication tools last year. We went with Hurst Centaur Cutter, spreader, combi, 3 stage ram, mini cutter, simo pump. We demoed American Genesis, Holmatro, TNT, and Centaur. The only tool that was not liked by all was the Genesis. For one- we broke the fitting where the hose went into the tool, for two they tended to push us all over the place when cutting. Dealers were a big thing to us, promised us the world but can the deliver? Genesis dealer was not what we wanted in a rep at all, not trustworthy at all. Holmatros rep said that they have never had a powerhead that didn't start, that right there told me he wasn't being realistic. TNT was great and the service seemed great but our old tools were Hurst and the guys wanted to go with what we knew. We had a 1 day Extrication class built into the grant and go to use all our new toys and we had very good luck with them, and liked them alot. I seriously think that we may have gone with Holmatro if the rep wouldn't have rubbed us the wrong way.

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