Why register? ...To Enhance Your Experience
+ Reply to Thread
Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 41 to 60 of 75
  1. #41

    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    3

    Default

    Does anyone have experience with Champion Rescue Tools, quality, service, operation.


  2. #42
    Forum Member MetalMedic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 1999
    Location
    The Home of Smucker's Jelly
    Posts
    1,266

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by rescuechief View Post
    Does anyone have experience with Champion Rescue Tools, quality, service, operation.
    We have the Champion B.E.A.S.T. at one of the race venues that I work with. I have used many different brands of tools through the years, and I avoid the "this tool is better than that tool" foolishness we see here. With that said, I am satisfied with the quality of the Champion Tool and have found nothing that concerns me with hot is is made. Service has been top-notch by the dealer (Dominion Fire Equipment) who has gone out of their way to be sure we were happy with the tool. Operation is just like a Hurst or a Phoenix. Similar thumb control on the tool to those brands. The Champion power unit has surprised me with how well it works. While it is largely due to the Honda motor, I still have never seen a power unit that starts as well as this one... there has to be some degree of compatibility to the pump to make the motor work so well. As for the operation of the B.E.A.S.T., I have said in another thread that I believe this tools will revolutionize how others look at making their tools. I terrific spreader and an awesome cutter, all rolled up in one tool that can be switched in less than 30 seconds.... you can't go wrong.
    Richard Nester
    Orrville (OH) Fire Dept.

    "People don't care what you know... until they know that you care." - Scott Bolleter

  3. #43
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    37

    Default

    My Dept. uses the EWO line of ResQtec. We have had them about a year and love them. Our mutual aid Dept. has a set of Hurst tools that are about 8 years old so I havent used a lot of other brands. We demoed several brands before deciding on the ResQtec and our main reson was that at the time of purchase they had more force than the other ones. One other brand was close but we didnt like the dealer so we have a set of resQtec tools and are very satisfied. They seem to be a bit heavier than some other brands, but like I say they had more power so we decided it was worth it.

  4. #44
    MembersZone Subscriber
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    246

    Default

    As far as Hydraulic tools. Pretty much anything works these days. They're all built to high standards and the competion amongst the manufactures has made them all more powerful and easier to use then ever before. My personal choice goes towards the Lukas/Centaur/Hurst High Pressure line. This is the line of tools my company uses, but I've formed some opinions based on previous experiances.

    I have extensive experience with Hurst (5000psi, both old and new). These are probably the most powerful tools I've used yet. However, they are heavy and the thumb control can be finiky at times, especially in cold weather.

    The Holmatro tools are not bad, in part because of their light weight and speed when unloaded, but they seem to lack the "oomph" untill that second stage kicks in and holds for a while. Several times I've gotten the tools stuck on because the twist grip has beome jammed against the car or other objects and then you have to power down the tool and cut around it to free it. Also, in high use areas that I used to frequent, the Holmatro tools seem to develop stress fractures easily around the hinge points, which was becomming a very common problem in the 27" Spreaders. I also haven't used a Holmatro tool that has a few years of use that hasn't leaked. The "Core Technology" (god I'm tired of that term) seems like a good idea, but I don't see where it is actually worth the amount of moeny it costs to retrofit existing equipment. Of course, if you're going to purchase a tool set new, then by all means it's not bad, but I don't see the feasability in retrofitting existing. I can think of better ways to spend that kind of money to update my rig.

    The Lucas/Centaur/Hurst High Pressure (all the same toys, different names over the years) seems to have (IMHO) a very good balance between the high and constant power of the Hurst product line, while offering lighter the lighter weight of the Holmatro line. The controls work very well, and it's a fabulous mix of the Holmatro twist control versus the Hurst Thumb trigger. It's my opinion that it's the best of both worlds. It's also been dead on balls reliable for us as well and hasn't found anything it cant cut or spread through yet... where I did have the famous Orange tools give up on me before.

    I honestly think that the Holmatro tools are as popular as they are around my area because of the sales and service force behind them. Some of the Holmatro guys (ESI) seem to push his product on you and bash the others. Guardian (Hurst/Lucas) will demo what their product can do, but also tells you honestly what it's weak at. If there was ever a head to thead competition, it would be interesting to see what comes out on top.
    FTM-PTB DTRT

    Everything I state on here is to support and aid my fellow firefighters. Everything I post is my opinion only, and in no way should be taken as an official opinion of any Company, Department, or Municipality I represent... oh and this includes Pierce Mfg, as so their legal department has advised me; since they apparently also invented the right to control "Free Speech".

  5. #45
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Pine Bluff, AR.
    Posts
    90

    Default

    DC, thanks for asking this question. My department is about to purchase some tools and I have been tasked with what tool to get. All the help I can get is great....

  6. #46

    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Lehighton Pa
    Posts
    4

    Default

    Our company currently has Holmatro tools. Prier to purchase, we had other manufactures come in with their tools and we put them to work. All the tools worked well!!! Some worked better then others. As mentioned before it comes down to personal preference. The weight of the tool, control features, just to name a few. In my opinion you can have the best tools money can buy, but if you have operators that can't run them, you might as well be using and tools.

  7. #47
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    16

    Thumbs up We're pro-genesis

    As far as I know, Genesis is the only tool on the market that proves their ability to cut this boron steel stuff. See the video at www.genesisrescue.com. The local rep said the post cut in the video is the toughest B post in the industry, located in the new Volvo and Subaru (per State Farm Insurance). He gave me a heads up that if another manufacturer rep says they can cut it, tell them you want proof...valid point I suppose- if they can actually do it, they must have some proof, right? Let me know if anyone has proof that another brand can cut this stuff besides Genesis- I'd be curious to see since we have multiple tool brands surrounding our city.

    We've got 9 sets of Genesis- it is nothing less than impressive...good luck

  8. #48
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    16

    Default My last post

    I'm not trying to push this brand down your throat. What works for us might not work for others. You have to do demo's and see when its time to buy. I have all of this "ability to cut" stuff stuck in my head because my committee just worked on buying new combi-tools and the rep was fillng us in on whats the current chit-chat in the rescue tool market. Sorry to have come off like I was pressing this down your
    throats

  9. #49
    Forum Member Bones42's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Location
    Pt. Beach, NJ
    Posts
    10,672

    Default

    Boron steel cutting.

    Holmatro Cutter
    Been there, done that. Over a year ago.

    (nothing against Genesis tools, but they are not the only ones nor the originators - Do they use the same Marketing firm as Pierce? )
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

  10. #50
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Morton, MN
    Posts
    13

    Default

    We got the AFG grant for extrication tools last year. We went with Hurst Centaur Cutter, spreader, combi, 3 stage ram, mini cutter, simo pump. We demoed American Genesis, Holmatro, TNT, and Centaur. The only tool that was not liked by all was the Genesis. For one- we broke the fitting where the hose went into the tool, for two they tended to push us all over the place when cutting. Dealers were a big thing to us, promised us the world but can the deliver? Genesis dealer was not what we wanted in a rep at all, not trustworthy at all. Holmatros rep said that they have never had a powerhead that didn't start, that right there told me he wasn't being realistic. TNT was great and the service seemed great but our old tools were Hurst and the guys wanted to go with what we knew. We had a 1 day Extrication class built into the grant and go to use all our new toys and we had very good luck with them, and liked them alot. I seriously think that we may have gone with Holmatro if the rep wouldn't have rubbed us the wrong way.

  11. #51
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    MD.
    Posts
    117

    Default

    ResQtec cutters will cut boron in real world situations, here is proof. I was the operator of the G6 cutter when I sheared the boron rod in this subaru impreza b post, and I can tell you after hearing that sound and watching the Genesis video there was only one or two cuts made by the Genesis that actually hit and sheared the boron rod, you cannot shear it without a loud surprise..
    Attached Images Attached Images  
    Last edited by KAPNKRNCH; 01-30-2008 at 02:56 PM.

  12. #52
    MembersZone Subscriber
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    249

    Talking

    Quote Originally Posted by NoFireGeeks View Post
    I'm not trying to push this brand down your throat. What works for us might not work for others. You have to do demo's and see when its time to buy. I have all of this "ability to cut" stuff stuck in my head because my committee just worked on buying new combi-tools and the rep was fillng us in on whats the current chit-chat in the rescue tool market. Sorry to have come off like I was pressing this down your
    throats
    It appears the "boron capable" cutter when it is cutting piece after piece of the tubing is cutting standard steel, not boron. In cutting fly end steel it just falls off versus actual boron that shatters or snaps off..... smoke and mirrors I say !!! Boron capable.... a pair of scisors is capable, anything is capable... can it do it for any duration and will things hold up.

    9 sets, impressed... thought more of sending you a condolence letter.... Just kidding.
    Last edited by Lieutenant387; 01-30-2008 at 05:53 PM.
    The evidence of God's presence far outweighs the
    proof of His absence.

  13. #53
    MembersZone Subscriber
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Calgary
    Posts
    191

    Default

    I agree with Bones 42,
    The Boron material in the Volvo XC90 B-pillar has a tensile strength of 203,000psi
    I was able to see the Holmatro 4050 NCT cutter cut that B-pillar in 2005 when the cutter was first introduced on the market.
    I think there is still pictures floating around somewhere on the forums of the 4050 NCT cutter cutting another XC90 B-pillar at a extrication challenge overseas?

    I also just read an advertisement that Champion Rescue Tools claims their new rescue tool (the beast 600) can generate 600,000 pounds of cutting force and a tool weight of only 46 pounds.
    I gotta see that one........

  14. #54
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    Between here and there
    Posts
    71

    Default

    Heres a link - I hope of a cutter cutting HSLA steel

    http://link.brightcove.com/services/...ctid1266105007

  15. #55
    MembersZone Subscriber
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Caldwell, NJ
    Posts
    56

    Default

    [QUOTE=firedog7;913848]
    The Boron material in the Volvo XC90 B-pillar has a tensile strength of 203,000psi
    QUOTE]

    I was curious about exactly what tensile strength is so I asked an engineer. This is the answer I received:

    "Tensile Strength is the force divided by the area needed to pull a piece apart (ie complete failure), also called ultimate strength. This is not the sheer strength of a material, although usually the higher the tensile the high the sheer. But I don't think there is a direct proportional coralation for all materials.
    Another term you may hear is Yield Strength, which is the force at which the material takes a perminent set and no longer springs back to its original shape after the load is released.

    But neither one of these terms will tell you, quantitatively, how much cutting force is need to sheer these materials. It probably has to due with surface hardness and through hardness as well as sheer strength."

    My interpretation of this is that if a metal has a tensile strength of 203,000 psi, it may, or may not require 203,000 psi to sheer. Does anyone know the relationship between tensile strength and sheer?

  16. #56
    MembersZone Subscriber
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Stoddard, WI USA
    Posts
    2

    Default Tool Time

    Genesis. We had Hurst then Amkus, 1 rig had Code 3 on it (weed eater moter). Still like the Air tools, and sawzall and high lift

  17. #57
    MembersZone Subscriber
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Calgary
    Posts
    191

    Cool

    prnancoz,
    This is a great question,
    And it is difficult to give a good simple answer,
    But here it goes,

    Shear Strength;
    Maximum shear stress that can be sustained by a material before rupture. The shear strength of a metal is the maximum load required to shear a specimen in such a manner that the resulting pieces are completely clear of each other (pull test) it is reported in psi based on the area of the sheared edge.

    Tensile strength;
    The tensile strength of a material is the maximum amount of tensile stress that it can be subjected to before failure. The definition of failure can vary according to material type and design, also reported in psi.

    Since the testing done to determine tensile strength of a metal is a pull test, (meaning the metal is actually pulled apart and the forces required to do so are recorded) not an actual cutting test, this is the best description I can give as it pertains to shear and tensile strength.
    The cutting test is more or less left to us in the field to sever a material with our cutters and then find out what that particular tensile strength is listed at according to the vehicle manufacturer.
    This may be why tool manufacturers describe their tools as being able to generate i.e. “200,000 psi of force”, because they cannot give an accurate figure of cutting strength required to “sever” the material.

    One other thing worthy of mention, vehicle manufacturers will order metal for vehicles according to specfic engineering requirements that have been determined in order to pass Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards (FMVSS 214 ,216
    This pertains to side impact and rollover standards that vehicles need to meet in order to be roadworthy)
    Every vehicle may have different strengths of metal throughout it’s structure depending on how it has been designed, this is why you may find a B-pillar harder to cut/spread than an A-pillar, roof rail, or rocker panel for example.
    So when a tool manufacturer claims their tool is”Boron Capable” this is a very broad statement because the material varies is strength so much.
    Some of the Boron strength ranges are anywhere from 80,000 to 250,000 psi that I know of.

    I hope this helps bit.
    Firedog7

  18. #58
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    1

    Default tool and material

    Hey all ive just got a new grinder today its the machine marts own 9" grinder I also picked up some metal cutting discs aswell when I used it has loads of vibration im not used to larger grinders so should this be happening ?

  19. #59
    Forum Member Rescue101's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    Bridgton,Me USA
    Posts
    8,162

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by KAPNKRNCH View Post
    ResQtec cutters will cut boron in real world situations, here is proof. I was the operator of the G6 cutter when I sheared the boron rod in this subaru impreza b post, and I can tell you after hearing that sound and watching the Genesis video there was only one or two cuts made by the Genesis that actually hit and sheared the boron rod, you cannot shear it without a loud surprise..
    Got a new favorite to go with that:Milwakee 13 amp 'cip saw with Torch and Diamond blades. Get you in to just about anything. Boron? NO contest! T.C.

  20. #60
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    MD.
    Posts
    117

    Default

    101, were you using the 18 tpi or 14 tpi blades?

    For most cutting I prefer the progressive tooth design 8/12, but I dont think that would be the best choice for boron.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Riding ASsignments
    By cfd3800 in forum Volunteer Forum
    Replies: 19
    Last Post: 03-26-2009, 09:23 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts