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  1. #61
    Forum Member Rescue101's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KAPNKRNCH View Post
    101, were you using the 18 tpi or 14 tpi blades?

    For most cutting I prefer the progressive tooth design 8/12, but I dont think that would be the best choice for boron.
    We've had best luck with the 18's.Coarser is quicker but doesn't last as long. Ron says the Subaru B IS NOT Boron,Subaru says it is. Believe who you want but a sawsall WILL cut it. So will a FX4. BUT this stuff is just going to get tougher and tougher so get ready. T.C.


  2. #62
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    We use TNT. Great tool and haven't had anything it couldn't cut.

    One thing that I've been told (and seen) is that the pump can make or break you. Make d@mn sure that when you're doing a demo that you have the same pump that you'll end up getting. There are a few companies/reps that will use a truck-mounted, PTO-driven pump that puts out way more volume/pressure than the actual pumps you end up buying. Makes the tools look real good during the demo, but then they're slower and won't cut as well after delivery.

    The only tool I personally don't like is Amkus. It cuts well, but the inverted (or backwards, whatever you want to call it) handle shortens the tool and throws off the center of balance and decreases my leverage. IMHO, it actually makes the tool more difficult to handle, not easier as they claim.

  3. #63
    Forum Member Bones42's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simpleguy68 View Post
    ...There are a few companies/reps that will use a truck-mounted, PTO-driven pump that puts out way more volume/pressure than the actual pumps you end up buying. Makes the tools look real good during the demo, but then they're slower and won't cut as well after delivery...
    Care to name any company that actually does this?

    To me, is sounds more like the people seeing the demo are not understanding what they are looking at. Volume and pressure have 0 to do with being PTO driven or not.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

  4. #64
    Forum Member Rescue101's Avatar
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    OK Bones,I'll bite. Try the Amkus tools off the Pickup mounted Ultimate system then try 'em off the Portable gas unit. Let me know what you find out. HINT..........BIG difference! T.C.

  5. #65
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    Thanks TC, exactly who I was going to name...

    Being PTO-driven gives you more horsepower to work with, so you're able to put use a bigger pump. Hence the greater pressure/volume. That's why the PTO-driven units can run 4 or more tools at once and your "average" small-engine driven unit tops out at two.
    Last edited by simpleguy68; 06-14-2010 at 10:36 AM.

  6. #66
    Forum Member Bones42's Avatar
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    So you are going to tell me that a 10,000psi pump gives more pressure when it's PTO driven than when it's gas or electric driven? Really?

    If so, sounds like your gas/electric 10,000psi pump is NOT delivering it's 10,000psi.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

  7. #67
    Forum Member Rescue101's Avatar
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    Pressure? Probably not.VOLUME? Yah,I'll bet there is a difference. All I can suggest is YOU try it. I KNOW what I SAW. DRAMATIC difference in ability and cycle times.WITH the SAME equipment(tools)off the SAME truck.One line off the portable pump gas powered,one line off the Ultimate system.YES.....BIG DIFFERENCE! Doubt me all you want.Get the DEMO,THEN tell me.But you won't because YOU will see what I saw. T.C.

  8. #68
    Forum Member Bones42's Avatar
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    101, obviously you were using 2 different pumps. And they were operating at different pressures and with different volumes. As you know, a "mini" pump at 10k psi and a small resevoir will NOT perform the same as a full sized pump at 10k psi with a large resevoir. Of course there is a volume difference which leads to better cycle times. No different than a 500gpm pump vs a 2000gpm pump. They can both put out 150psi, but they will both do so with a big difference in volume. No one will question that.

    but again, that is 2 different pumps.

    My statement was simply the fact that equal sized pumps will NOT perform differently just because they are PTO driven.

    Compare the same spec pumps, 1 being PTO and 1 being gas fed. You know you will get the same performace.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

  9. #69
    Forum Member Rescue101's Avatar
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    Bones,Post #63. You ASKED and I answered. AND YES,this is how we "demoed" the Amkus tools. And NO,that Briggs or Honda IS NOT going to power the pump that Ford diesel does.I know it,you know it. You said "Show me someone who does this". I DID. For what it's worth,T.C.

  10. #70
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    The pumps should all be working at the same 10,500 lbs if they are operating properly. There is a big difference in pump volume capability from brand to brand and even model to model within the same brand. The ultimate system is probably the best and most capable system available, but very expensive. It is, as others have said, a volume issue (assuming the pump is working correctly). Look at the Genesis pump with the "Turbo" setting where both sides of the simo pump can be directed to one set of hoses and increase the flow. It is especially noticible with some of the newer heavy duty cutters with big pistons, like the Genesis, 231, 236, and All-9. The higher volume pumps fills the big cylinder faster. Kind of like a 1000 GPM pump filling a barrell slower than a 1500 GPM pump.
    Last edited by BB3939; 06-16-2010 at 10:47 AM.
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  11. #71
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    That's exactly what TC and I were trying to say. The Ultimate System is amazing, but if you're shown the demo using that system and then buy the Honda-powered system, you'll be sorely disappointed.

    From what I gather, LifeForce Rescue (www.lifeforcerescue.com/pto.php) actually designed the Ultimate System. It's available on their rescue trucks or can be added to a pumper. It's compatible with all makes of tools.

    I've not seen the Genesis Turbo, but we have the TNT Accelerator, which sounds similar. HUGE difference when you flip the switch in terms of speed and power!!

  12. #72
    Forum Member Blulakr's Avatar
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    This may seem strange to some but here are two of my favorite extrication tools,

    My LED helmet lamp. Most of our T\A's are at night in remote areas so having good lighting is essesntial...

    My gloves. Structure gloves just plain suck for anything but keeping your hands from burning. I keep a pair of mechanics wear gloves in my turnouts. They protect your hands well while allowing you to manipulate things..

    We also like the rescue 42 struts. We are using them here...

    Photo from rescue 42 website.. http://www.rescue42.com/fp_bluelake08.php

    Last edited by Blulakr; 07-01-2010 at 09:23 PM.

  13. #73
    Forum Member Rescue101's Avatar
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    Can't agree on the glove choice. Extrication gloves not allowed here. No one in this outfit has any problem doing EXTRICATION work in our standard issue fire glove. We've had several injuries with extrication gloves. T.C.

  14. #74
    Forum Member Blulakr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rescue101 View Post
    Can't agree on the glove choice. Extrication gloves not allowed here. No one in this outfit has any problem doing EXTRICATION work in our standard issue fire glove. We've had several injuries with extrication gloves. T.C.
    Maybe we need better structure fire gloves???

  15. #75
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    Look, as far as I'm concerned there is no "best tool" each situation demands the use of a different tool, some tools thrive in some areas and fail in others. I may be wrong, I am just a Junior Firefighter but I do have extrication training. We use hurst and genesis tools in my department I believe, and they work excellent. I have to agree though that a well trained person can use a "bad" tool and recieve better results than an untrained person with a "good" tool. The man is JUST AS important as the tool. I have a pair of large Shelby Xtrication gloves, they arent pretty or fancy but they get the job done.

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