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    Default Best Tools and Worse Tools????

    What are the best extrication tools in your opinion? What are the worse tools in your opinion? Tell me why you like or dislike these tools. Just an opinion guys..... Do not get mad and shoot the neighbor's cat over this one.
    What we do in life... echoes in eternity!!!

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    You may not like my answer....but....

    the tool is not the important part. The operator is. A well trained operator with a crappy tool will get the job done. A poorly trained operator with the "best" tool will still fail.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

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    Well said bones

    It would be nice if this would end right here, no more posts

    Go back and read over the other 100 times this gets argued, I mean discussed on this forum.

    Ask an easier question, like, which firetruck is better, pierce or e one,
    Or maybe which pickup, chevy or ford...........

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    ...bang...meow!
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    Why do you guys keep going back to it is in the man. Are you scared to debate the quality of tools. Each of you have the right to voice you opinion if you would like but seems to me that you all think you are the best extrication people out there and with one toothpick and a pack of chewing gum you could get into anthing. Why not voice you opinion and let people know what you think about centain tools. I am surely glad people in America were not scared to voice their opinions. It would be a sad day in who knows where.
    What we do in life... echoes in eternity!!!

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    Hmmmmm lets see, my favorite tools. Dewalts sawz-all, Hi-lift jack, and a com-along.
    IACOJ - Senior Jake

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    Quote Originally Posted by DCFD1415 View Post
    Why do you guys keep going back to it is in the man. Are you scared to debate the quality of tools. Each of you have the right to voice you opinion if you would like but seems to me that you all think you are the best extrication people out there and with one toothpick and a pack of chewing gum you could get into anthing. Why not voice you opinion and let people know what you think about centain tools. I am surely glad people in America were not scared to voice their opinions. It would be a sad day in who knows where.
    Well, My department's Extrication Team has won multiple World Championships...Their Tools of choice are Genesis. These are also the tools our department has on all virtually all of our units.

    We previously used Holmatro, and before that, Hurst. We are very pleased with the performance and durability of Genesis.





    Kevin
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    That is a start..... Now tell us what makes you like the tools.....


    Are they user friendly?

    Are they reliable?

    Are they the best you have used or are they best all around?

    Mix match sets..... Tell us what the best spreader/cutter/ram or any hand tools you have used.

    What kind of warrenty do they have?

    Cost vs. other tools.


    Let us know why you stand behind your tools.




    This is not for you to pump up or put down other tools, it is to give us a OPINION of the tools out there today. Every maker says they have the best tools. Let us know why you think these tools deserve to be reconized.



    Me personally, I like Holmatro NCT cutter... I do not have much experience with any other cutter.

    I like the TNT spreader for ease of use and power.

    I like the TNT rams for the way they hold when you set them.

    I like TNT pumps. They seem to really give the tool all the juice it can use.

    I like Dewalt saws. Never had any problem with them when using the right blades. ( I will have to look at the blades to tell you the brand since right now I can not remember )


    You do not have to stop with these tools, you can expand it out to what ever you use.
    What we do in life... echoes in eternity!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by DCFD1415 View Post
    Why do you guys keep going back to it is in the man. Are you scared to debate the quality of tools. Each of you have the right to voice you opinion if you would like but seems to me that you all think you are the best extrication people out there and with one toothpick and a pack of chewing gum you could get into anthing. Why not voice you opinion and let people know what you think about centain tools. I am surely glad people in America were not scared to voice their opinions. It would be a sad day in who knows where.
    Do you honestly believe that the skill level of the operator has nothing to do with the performance of a tool? If you do you are in a different world than most.
    IACOJ - Senior Jake

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    The skill of the operator will never get you out of the car by itself..... The tool itself will never get you out of a car by itself..... That is why I think both are equal.


    Now then, with that being said..... The tool may be a screwdriver and a hole punch, or a toothpick and a piece of chewing gum if your on TV.




    SO if you think that the best tool is a person, just to make you happy you can name him or she. That way this forum will be for both parties. The ones who think they are an extrication god and the ones who love the tools.
    What we do in life... echoes in eternity!!!

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    We use Res Q Tec. They work fine for the few times we do extrication. The pump started right up after months of just sitting there. I think the user is 99% of the extrication.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DCFD1415 View Post
    The skill of the operator will never get you out of the car by itself..... The tool itself will never get you out of a car by itself..... That is why I think both are equal.




    SO if you think that the best tool is a person, just to make you happy you can name him or she. That way this forum will be for both parties. The ones who think they are an extrication god and the ones who love the tools.
    Have you ever seen someone trying to operate a tool with no clue what so ever what they are doing? I have and it is very upsetting!

    To answer your question, to name someone is not fair.But to say a firefighter trained in the use and operations of the tool is a different story. Everything comes down to training and knowing your equipment.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DCFD1415 View Post


    SO if you think that the best tool is a person, just to make you happy you can name him or she. That way this forum will be for both parties. The ones who think they are an extrication god and the ones who love the tools.
    People can also love the tool and not have any idea what to do with it. So I guess I would prefer a extrication god.

    As far as my opinion on the tools I would prefer Holmatro. I have used quite a few different types of rescue tools and I have no complaints about any of the ones I used.

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    We use Genesis too. I like the way (and I'm used to it) the tool is held and operated.

    I've cut using Amkus, TNT, Hurst, Genesis, probably more. So far I like the Genesis the best, but I don't compete, we don't cut all that much, and we won't likely be buying new tools any time soon since we just don't use them all that much. They get serviced annually, and the always check out fine.

    I DO NOT like Hurst. In one of my classes for state certification, a neighboring department provided their new squad with all new tools as one of the equipment trucks. We had nothing but trouble with the Hurst equipment. I managed to break one speader (fluid everywhere, no more power) doing something that I KNOW wasn't abusing the tool, under the supervision of one of their instructors. They had trouble with the manifold system on their squad, and someone else broke another tool that same weekend.

    Am I saying Hurst is junk? No, they obviously make a solid product that lots of departments buy. My experiences with their product, short as they may have been, were not positive ones.
    "Share your knowledge - it's a way to achieve immortality." - Stolen from Chase Sargent's Buddy to Boss program

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    Default Rescue tools

    Our township rescue companies all use Hurst, We have a new cutter that outcuts the old cutters by far. I guess if a cutter/spreader that was superior that could use the Hurst fluid; we would check it out and purchase one. It took many years just to get everyone on the same page with similaar tools. We started out years ago with a Power Hawk.

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    OK extrication gods....... Lets put it another way!




    If I said extrication tools, what name brand comes to mind?



    Its like the name game, I say tool and you say the first word that comes to your mind.
    What we do in life... echoes in eternity!!!

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    Are you just trying to **** off the people you are asking for help?
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    Quote Originally Posted by DCFD1415 View Post
    OK extrication gods....... Lets put it another way!




    If I said extrication tools, what name brand comes to mind?



    Its like the name game, I say tool and you say the first word that comes to your mind.

    Hurst...(my preference)
    Halmatro...

    But, you know what? They all do the same job!! This debate & discussion will go on for ever. Its like Ford v. Chevy, Coke v. Pepsi, Fruit Loops v. Fruity Pebbles...

    and this too...

    Last edited by WaterbryVTfire; 07-02-2007 at 02:03 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DCFD1415 View Post
    OK extrication gods....... Lets put it another way!




    If I said extrication tools, what name brand comes to mind?



    Its like the name game, I say tool and you say the first word that comes to your mind.
    I guess you missed the point.

    I have used Amkus, Lukas (before it was bought by Hurst), Hurst, Holmatro, Phoenix, and some old thing with the name Viking on it. They all opened every car I tried them on. They all had some good points and some bad points. Learn how to work with YOUR tools and you will have no problems.


    I managed to break one speader (fluid everywhere, no more power) doing something that I KNOW wasn't abusing the tool, under the supervision of one of their instructors. They had trouble with the manifold system on their squad, and someone else broke another tool that same weekend.
    I can make this same claim with 3 of the brands listed above. And I can make the opposite claim for the same 3 brands. Tools aren't perfect. They break. They are still (partially) made by people and people make mistakes.

    You may like twist grips. I don't. That would lead us both down different directions on "what tool is best" simply based on personal preference and no factual basis. That is why these discussions are silly.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

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    Happy happy joy joy
    What we do in life... echoes in eternity!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bones42 View Post
    You may not like my answer....but....

    the tool is not the important part. The operator is. A well trained operator with a crappy tool will get the job done. A poorly trained operator with the "best" tool will still fail.
    Never heard put so plainly, but TRUE! Loyalty to an extrication tool can be very back-stabbing. All tools do the exact same thing...spread...squeeze...cut. There are 5 things to consider when looking at extrication tools. Company, Product, People, Service, Training.

    I can make any tool work successfully, and any new hire can make any tool look like the biggest design flaw. There are good tool manufacturers being sold by bad distributors, and good service oriented distributors selling to people. Either way it works.

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    Lets get this straight... its painfully obvious that a tool is not going to hop off the shelf and take a door off and likewise a firefighter is not going to rip the door of with his bear hands, but the best tool is what the competant operator likes.

    We use TNT tools (close to a dozen tools and a couple of motors) and I love them, however I used to love Hurst because it was all I knew. I recently assisted a nearby squad with an extrication class for some new members and refresher for older members and we used their hurst tools. They worked fine at accomplishing the task, but I think I could have done it faster with my tools.... because I have a comfort level and expectation level from repetitive use.

    I consider myself a rather proficient operator of my tools and I think to an observer I could make the tools often times look like a hot knife through butter however on the other side I have stood out on a highway as IC watching one of my less experienced guys monkey with a procedure to the point that someone observing would say 'boy their tools suck, I'm not buying TNT" It wasn't the tool... it was the operators ability level.

    If your attempting a research project for what tools to buy, try them all. They all have goods and bads. I have a neighboring department who was totally torn between tools and couldn't reach a decision after several demos, that they finally chose based on brand X fit better in their compartments.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SSHANK42 View Post
    Are you just trying to **** off the people you are asking for help?
    I really hope you are not as dense as you are making your self look. DCFD1415 is asking a perfectly normal, relavent question. If you don't like it, don't respond. If you have constructive input, lets here it.
    He may have not worded the question the way you would have, but... let it go.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DCFD1415 View Post
    OK extrication gods....... Lets put it another way!
    You must be one of the most gullible people in the world if after reading that sentence you don't think he is trying to **** somebody off. Instead of coming on here and trying to bust balls why not take your own advise.
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    Default Take it outside!

    This is a posting that should be taken care of out in the parking lot.

    Why not schedule a tool evaluation for your department, and let the vendors go head to head with each other. Then do a little homework and ask the maintenance shops from different departments on tool reliability. I know there are some that show well in a demo, but fail miserably within the first 5 years.

    The rest of it is salesman blah, blah, blah.

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