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    Default Stopping at out of district calls...

    When your driving, on duty in your engine, ladder, or etc out of your district and notice an emergency what are your SOGs/SOPs state you do.

    For example, I am a member of a volly company, about 30 members, maybe 15 of us have any "real" clue which is sad, We were called for a move up assignment to stand by at another volly station due to them being on a run which would keep them tied up for some time. While returning we had to drive through a "city" departments district to get back to ours which is a paid department with their own communications center and a fire department which is very against vollies. In their district we notice a tractor trailor with it's brakes on fire and the driver dumping a small ABC on it. Instead of stopping the officer, (which we call "Sloth" because he has the IQ and looks from Sloth from The Goonies) called into our 911 center for them to advise the city and we drove by the fire and returned to our station without rendering aid. Sounds like a law suit to me, but what gets even better is after we returned I question him on the situation and said what if it would of been a house fire with entrapment and he said he would of done the same thing. Does this sound ****ed up to anyone else? Oh and the reason for not stopping, "The city department would of been mad at us!"

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    Quote Originally Posted by firefighter3419 View Post
    When your driving, on duty in your engine, ladder, or etc out of your district and notice an emergency what are your SOGs/SOPs state you do.

    For example, I am a member of a volly company, about 30 members, maybe 15 of us have any "real" clue which is sad, We were called for a move up assignment to stand by at another volly station due to them being on a run which would keep them tied up for some time. While returning we had to drive through a "city" departments district to get back to ours which is a paid department with their own communications center and a fire department which is very against vollies. In their district we notice a tractor trailor with it's brakes on fire and the driver dumping a small ABC on it. Instead of stopping the officer, (which we call "Sloth" because he has the IQ and looks from Sloth from The Goonies) called into our 911 center for them to advise the city and we drove by the fire and returned to our station without rendering aid. Sounds like a law suit to me, but what gets even better is after we returned I question him on the situation and said what if it would of been a house fire with entrapment and he said he would of done the same thing. Does this sound ****ed up to anyone else? Oh and the reason for not stopping, "The city department would of been mad at us!"
    We would call dispatch and advise them of the situation. We would then stop and offer aid until the city guys showed up. And if they didn't need us anymore we would leave. It is crazy to just drive by an emergency.

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    bit different here as we are a national service. We stop.
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    Firefighter3419, Before you go airing out your dirty laundry, maybe you should remove where you're from under your screen name. Don't want to see you get in trouble.

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    Quote Originally Posted by HotTrotter View Post
    We would call dispatch and advise them of the situation. We would then stop and offer aid until the city guys showed up. And if they didn't need us anymore we would leave. It is crazy to just drive by an emergency.
    I'll ditto this thought. You're driving a huge billboard and several people likely saw "XYZ FD" drive by a fire without even stopping long enough to ask if they needed help. The public doesn't care what city it's in.

    I really wouldn't care what the city FD thought. Call dispatch and notify them, stop and help, and when they get there tell them what happened and leave it to them. It's better to have them hacked off for you doing the right thing than having the public hacked off for failing to stop and provide assistance.

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    I agree with Catch22 and HotTrotter on this one. Advise dispatch, both yours and the city's, and render what aid you can until the other department gets there.

    We have stopped at an accident in another departments first due while on the way to a class before. No hard feelings between us and that department. Of course it was in our county and we have the same dispatch center.

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    We would stop. In my area, all the departments get along very well with each other so the "getting mad" part would not apply to me. There is no "this is my kingdom, get out" type of attitude.

    We would stop, advise the communications center of the situation and if they want to respond, they can. If they want us to handle it, that is fine too. There have been several situations where this has happened and we just advise the other agency, let them decide what to do. We have been on the recieving end as well. If they are there and can handle it, so be it. It wouldn't make sense to send another engine to the same location to do what they are already doing.

    To drive by like that is a huge liability. They want the fire department regardless of who it is, the color or the truck or vollie or career. Fire is fire and the danger is the same no matter what jurisdiction it is.

    Plus, it's bad PR. Just think of you were that guy and the damn fire truck just drove by!

    If it was my guys, I would chew em if they didn't stop.
    Last edited by Dickey; 07-07-2007 at 12:52 AM.
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    I'm pretty sure we would stop as well. Driving by isn't an option. We're there to help - no matter who or what. To drive by makes us look really bad.

    The only call I can think of like this in my department was one in the back of town we got called for a smell of smoke, and determined the smell was coming from the other town. So instead of calling them and packing up, we went into their town to locate the source. At the same time we notified their HQ about what we were doing. It ended up being a large fire pit, but you never know.

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    I don't know about the states you guys live in or country even but these days most states if not all now have what is known as a "Good Samaritan law"

    Basically the law says that if you have the power to do something about some kind of injury, then you are almost required to help. Its like having an MD license plate or a VF on your car. If you pass or witness an accident you are technically supposed to stop to give aid from what i have been told and read about the law.

    Heres the wikipedia of the law itself

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Good_Samaritan_law


    By the way, the law, aside from major mis happenings like further injury or problems due to actions by the person(s) giving aid, blame is relieved for aiding those in need.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mihlrad View Post
    I don't know about the states you guys live in or country even but these days most states if not all now have what is known as a "Good Samaritan law"
    .
    In WI, that law does not apply to us. We are the "trained professionals" with a "duty to act" to prevent loss of life or property in the event of an emergency.

    The Good Samaritan law applies to the average joe who just stops to help. Even this would not apply to this situation. This engine company was "on duty" at the time and did have a responsibility to stop and render what aid they could. A good lawyer would make a case against the agency not stopping and not honoring their "duty to act."

    Honestly, I don't know any good hearted firefighter that wouldn't stop.
    Last edited by Dickey; 07-07-2007 at 01:28 AM.
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    I would stop. I was bringing our engine back from the service center and had a full load of water on it just in case. (Couple hour drive, not just across town) I guess you live with what you can stand until someone gets the courts involved and you are made to do the right thing.

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    I agree with the majority: Advise your dispatch then stop to render aid. Work through the hurt feelings after the fire is out. To not is bad PR, bad morale, and just plain bad business.

    I'd also agree with the "Don't air your dirty laundry"-comment above. It's one thing to ask for other opinions, quite another to call your officer a Sloth on a public message board.
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    We always stop and render aid. We have a mixture of career, volly and federal departments and all of them follow the same protocol including EMS.

    Dispatch is notified to have the department that covers the area respond. The "out of response area" unit renders any aid that they can until the arrival of department that covers the area.

    The incoming IC is briefed and the operation is turned over to the "host" department. We stay on scene until the IC releases us.

    The same procedure is used in "Gray areas" where the wrong department is dispatched because the exact location is not known. The first responding department will provide service until the department that covers the area is on scene.

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    Quote Originally Posted by firefighter3419 View Post
    When your driving, on duty in your engine, ladder, or etc out of your district and notice an emergency what are your SOGs/SOPs state you do.

    For example, I am a member of a volly company, about 30 members, maybe 15 of us have any "real" clue which is sad, We were called for a move up assignment to stand by at another volly station due to them being on a run which would keep them tied up for some time. While returning we had to drive through a "city" departments district to get back to ours which is a paid department with their own communications center and a fire department which is very against vollies. In their district we notice a tractor trailor with it's brakes on fire and the driver dumping a small ABC on it. Instead of stopping the officer, (which we call "Sloth" because he has the IQ and looks from Sloth from The Goonies) called into our 911 center for them to advise the city and we drove by the fire and returned to our station without rendering aid. Sounds like a law suit to me, but what gets even better is after we returned I question him on the situation and said what if it would of been a house fire with entrapment and he said he would of done the same thing. Does this sound ****ed up to anyone else? Oh and the reason for not stopping, "The city department would of been mad at us!"
    Everyone is missing the big picture here...

    It appears that the VFD that requested the aid bypassed aid from the "city department" and called another VFD that had to drive through the career FD's district to get to and from the call.

    Why are these petty bulls*** territorial gamesgames continously being played by both sides?
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    Quote Originally Posted by firefighter3419 View Post
    When your driving, on duty in your engine, ladder, or etc out of your district and notice an emergency what are your SOGs/SOPs state you do.

    For example, I am a member of a volly company, about 30 members, maybe 15 of us have any "real" clue which is sad, We were called for a move up assignment to stand by at another volly station due to them being on a run which would keep them tied up for some time. While returning we had to drive through a "city" departments district to get back to ours which is a paid department with their own communications center and a fire department which is very against vollies. In their district we notice a tractor trailor with it's brakes on fire and the driver dumping a small ABC on it. Instead of stopping the officer, (which we call "Sloth" because he has the IQ and looks from Sloth from The Goonies) called into our 911 center for them to advise the city and we drove by the fire and returned to our station without rendering aid. Sounds like a law suit to me, but what gets even better is after we returned I question him on the situation and said what if it would of been a house fire with entrapment and he said he would of done the same thing. Does this sound ****ed up to anyone else? Oh and the reason for not stopping, "The city department would of been mad at us!"
    Everyone is missing the big picture here...

    It appears that the VFD that requested the aid bypassed aid from the "city department" and called another VFD that had to drive through the career FD's district to get to and from the call.

    Why are these petty bulls*** territorial games continuously being played by both sides?
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
    Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

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    a fire department who passes an emergency without stopping to assist is abandonment plain and simple wile i do agree off duty personell and personell in their own personal vehicles have the choice... passing by an emergnecy in a marked piece of apparatus is bs plain and simple...give it up vollies/ paid we are here do do the same da** thing help people so why dont we start doing it

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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainGonzo View Post
    Everyone is missing the big picture here...

    It appears that the VFD that requested the aid bypassed aid from the "city department" and called another VFD that had to drive through the career FD's district to get to and from the call.

    Why are these petty bulls*** territorial games continuously being played by both sides?



    Not to hyjack the thread but :

    How do you know that the volly FD "bypassed aid from the city Dept".
    Maybe the city dept was already moved up to cover another house or to go work at the scene.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eng34FF View Post
    I agree with ...HotTrotter on this one. .
    Boy, there's a statement you don't see on here often....

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    A Pandora's Box of "What if's" should have come across the officer's mind before making the decision not to stop.

    What if.....
    the driver gets injured putting out the fire.
    the fire spreads to the fuel tanks.
    there was hazardous materials in the trailer.
    and so on.

    What the officer lacks is "common sense". This was a no brainer; stop, notify the appropriate agency, mitigate the situation, await arrival of said agency.

    ....a fire department which is very against vollies.
    "The city department would of been mad at us!"
    By not stopping to render aid will only add fuel to the fire unfortunately. This would not go unnoticed by the city department.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RESQBOSS244 View Post
    Not to hyjack the thread but :

    How do you know that the volly FD "bypassed aid from the city Dept".
    Maybe the city dept was already moved up to cover another house or to go work at the scene.
    For example, I am a member of a volly company, about 30 members, maybe 15 of us have any "real" clue which is sad, We were called for a move up assignment to stand by at another volly station due to them being on a run which would keep them tied up for some time. While returning we had to drive through a "city" departments district to get back to ours which is a paid department with their own communications center and a fire department which is very against vollies.

    That's my take... and it happens a lot.
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    If the city you are referring to really is anti volunteer can you blame them? You admit that even at your own volly company only half of the members have a "real" clue.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainGonzo View Post
    Everyone is missing the big picture here...

    It appears that the VFD that requested the aid bypassed aid from the "city department" and called another VFD that had to drive through the career FD's district to get to and from the call.

    Why are these petty bulls*** territorial games continuously being played by both sides?
    I missed that completely. However, I can think of a lot of circumstances where this could happen. For example, what if the city FD refuses to do coverage, they don't have the manpower to do coverage, etc. Lots of potential explanations for it.

    Just a thought.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainGonzo View Post
    That's my take... and it happens a lot.
    I aree , it does happen alot , but your "take" isn't necessarily a fact.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RESQBOSS244 View Post
    I aree , it does happen alot , but your "take" isn't necessarily a fact.
    True.. but I have been in the businmess for 26+ years, work at the State Fire Academy and hear the horror stories of "****ing contests" between fire chiefs over bulls***t things that happened years ago.. some of those chiefs are long gone, yet the rivalries continue to this day.

    The stupid little "turf wars" have to end.. the losers are the citizenry that we have sworn to protect!
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainGonzo View Post
    True.. but I have been in the businmess for 26+ years, work at the State Fire Academy and hear the horror stories of "****ing contests" between fire chiefs over bulls***t things that happened years ago.. some of those chiefs are long gone, yet the rivalries continue to this day.

    The stupid little "turf wars" have to end.. the losers are the citizenry that we have sworn to protect!


    I agree 100% .

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