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    Default Volunteer Fireboat crew requirements.

    I'm looking for suggestions on crew requirements / abilities for those who respond onboard our departments fireboats. We are talking 24' Privateer and 15' Zodiac.

    These would be in addition to FF and EMS Requirements

    We alraeady have requirements for the pilots.
    I'm wondering if any of you have swim tests, Treading Water for 20 mins, Red Cross Water Safety requirements etc...

    We have done the wearing the turnouts into the water drills, speed knot tying etc..
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    Default Fireboat/Rescue Boat Training Requirements

    In our department, Seattle, we have some large fireboats (50', 97', 108'), and all of our members who are part of our Marine Response Team are "Deckhand Qualified"- that means familiar with launching/docking, basic equipment layout, safety procedures, etc. Only the Fireboat Company can be Pilots/Acting Pilots (manuevering, radar, chart plotting, depthfinder) or Engineers/Acting Engineers (maintaining engines, pumps, electrical). The Officer and Deckhand can be from any of the Marine Response Team- two designated engine companies and one fireboat company.

    We also have our smaller rescue and work boats- metal work skiffs (for underpier inspections/firefighting) and rigid hull inflatables for rescue work.

    As far as training requirements for small boat & water rescue work, here is what we do:

    Our Dive Team (technical rescue company) members are NOAA course trained and trained to Dive Rescue International standards. They are also trained in small boat handling- our work skiffs and 'Zodiacs'.

    Our Marine Team members are trained in what you could call Surface Water Rescue: man overboard procedures; small boat handling; Coast Guard navigation rules; Dive Tender operations (surface search support for the Dive Team); patient recovery- concious/unconcious, for both the fireboats and rescue boats; full PPE float test- on air in bunkers/SCBA; marine VHF radio operations. We are not forbidden from entering the water for a rescue, but our Training Guides encourage us not to do so unless your risk/benefit analysis and personal fitness & training make it a possible option. Our water temperatures in Puget Sound hover around 48 degrees F most of the time. Lake Washington is a little warmer.

    I am trying to get our department to officially use NFPA 1670 for our Marine Team water rescue requirements. That would mean for us that we perform and DOCUMENT:
    1. Survival Swim- undefined in NFPA 1670, probably treading water for 5 min.
    2. Self-Rescue- again, undefined in 1670; climbing back into the boat, or is it extricating yourself from a patient who has pulled you into the water?
    3. Trained in Water Rescue Techniques- we do this, but actual Marine Team documentation is poor.
    4. Surface Support for Dive Team Operations, if your department does this- we document this pretty well.

    In Washington State, the Administrative Code only requires that firefighters performing water rescues wear personal floation devices and be trained in water rescue techniques.

    Good luck.

    kurt.plunkett@seattle.gov

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    Quote Originally Posted by osfd100 View Post
    I'm looking for suggestions on crew requirements / abilities for those who respond onboard our departments fireboats. We are talking 24' Privateer and 15' Zodiac.

    These would be in addition to FF and EMS Requirements

    We alraeady have requirements for the pilots.
    I'm wondering if any of you have swim tests, Treading Water for 20 mins, Red Cross Water Safety requirements etc...

    We have done the wearing the turnouts into the water drills, speed knot tying etc..
    The affects of Dramamine (sp?) on the body
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    Quote Originally Posted by DocVBFDE14 View Post
    The affects of Dramamine (sp?) on the body
    3 Dramamine and a an adult beverage makes for a very interesting boat ride...


    Youre probably better off getting in touch with some companies that have SOPs already written, and try to create your own out of the ones that work for you.
    Proud East Coast Traditionalist.

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    For our dept (POC dept with 800 runs a year) all Boat Operators are required to take a proctored class and exam through the State Watercraft Office. Water Rescue training was made availible to anyone who wanted to do it and many did. What that entailed I'm not sure besides a 1/4 or 1/2 mile swim in the river.


    We have an 18' Boston Whaler and a brand spanking new Yamaha WaveRunner with rescue sled.
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    Quote Originally Posted by RFRDxplorer View Post
    Water Rescue training was made availible to anyone who wanted to do it and many did. What that entailed I'm not sure besides a 1/4 or 1/2 mile swim in the river.
    I went to that class...It was more like a 200 yard swim...we also worked on rope throw bags and flotation devices, getting a victim onto a backboard or stokes and removing them into a boat. Classroom was mostly safety topics and hazards of both river and flood water rescues. Good class.
    "The quality of a person's life is in direct proportion to their commitment to excellence, regardless of their chosen field of endeavor." - Vince Lombardi

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    Quote Originally Posted by Capt790 View Post
    I went to that class...It was more like a 200 yard swim...we also worked on rope throw bags and flotation devices, getting a victim onto a backboard or stokes and removing them into a boat. Classroom was mostly safety topics and hazards of both river and flood water rescues. Good class.
    Ohhh. Well I obviously wasn't there, but a few certain firefighters must have exaggerated a tad bit.


    I sat through a Water and Ice Rescue Awareness Class at a local fire school back in March. Alot of it however was swiftwater rescue info.
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    Quote Originally Posted by RFRDxplorer View Post
    a few certain firefighters must have exaggerated a tad bit.
    That never happens does it?
    "The quality of a person's life is in direct proportion to their commitment to excellence, regardless of their chosen field of endeavor." - Vince Lombardi

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    Would it be possible for a Boat to be considered a Aux Fireboat? And could it's crew be considered volly firefighters..I ask this cause I'm trying to put together a plan for Departments to pick up fireboat converted from Military tugs and to draw more money to cover expenses they would be first and formost MUSEUM boats of the communities water front and most work would be done by vollenteers but supervised by a small paid staff and when a call came in or time for training they would cast off and be ready to help..also there would be more gov money if it also acted as a Police ect dive boat...all of these activities have federal funds up for grabs under HOMELAND SECURITY programs ect.

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    Quote Originally Posted by usselliot76 View Post
    I ask this cause I'm trying to put together a plan for Departments to pick up fireboat converted from Military tugs
    I would think that first and foremost that for a vessel of this size, all operating crewmembers would have to have USCG Certifications (Pilot: 100ton Master, Engineer: Diesel/Electric 100ton) They don't come cheap.

    As for the Volly Crew, I am not an expert but I would be hard pressed to think that you could get substantial homeland security money for a used vessel that would be manned by a volunteer crew. Thats a large chunk of change to give out with no guarantee of a crew.
    "Loyalty Above all Else. Except Honor."

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    The Coast Guard has a pretty good training program for small boat operations. Your local Coast Guard Auxiliary unit might be able to help you out -- I know that in some areas they actually help conduct on-the-water training for local police and fire departments. At the very least their qualification guide has a bunch of tasks that you might want to adopt into your training program even if you don't want to do them exactly the same as the CG.

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    Since my last post, I've changed departments and this is how we do it.

    (1500 calls per year combination dept)

    Every person who sets foot on that boat must be water rescue certified (swim test, etc) and as with being on the department you are automatically a minimum of an EMT-B/Firefighter. To drive you have to pass the state boating course and have a certain number of hours operating the vessel, getting to know currents, where sandbars and obstructions are, etc.
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    True FWD but the boat would have a crew just the crew would be considered vollenteer FFs..Take for instance a converted Navy tug being used as a tourist attraction on the citys waterfront..also used by the Police as a dive platform AND ready for duty as an Aux city or harbor fireboat...so it would have a paid full time crew..but instead of being on the citys budget it would be paid thru the funding set up. Agreement would have to be drawn up about health insurance excet in case the crew was injured but it would only needed when they were training or responding..kind of get the drift???

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    Quote Originally Posted by usselliot76 View Post
    True FWD but the boat would have a crew just the crew would be considered vollenteer FFs..Take for instance a converted Navy tug being used as a tourist attraction on the citys waterfront..also used by the Police as a dive platform AND ready for duty as an Aux city or harbor fireboat...so it would have a paid full time crew..but instead of being on the citys budget it would be paid thru the funding set up. Agreement would have to be drawn up about health insurance excet in case the crew was injured but it would only needed when they were training or responding..kind of get the drift???
    Yes I do, but I also see many administrative and logistical problems with your proposal. For one, again, I draw your attention to the use of a volunteer firefighting crew- You can not guarantee "X" amount of qualified personnel 24/7/365- therefore I don't think you could get any homeland security money. Additionally there is the matter of training- what minimum parameters will the crew be trained to- qualified shipboard ff's? Will they have any damage control training (dewatering, shoring, rigging, etc....)

    Then there is the matter of will the existing Fire Department want to use you? If they are an IAFF Department, they may have issue with volunteers being used, especially if they do not know what their training/experience is.

    We wont even get into the workmans comp nightmares.

    (oh and by the way, I am part of the crew that is restoring the former fleet oceangoing tug USS Zuni ATF-95, and I am also a former qualified shipboard FF with DC training......)
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    Hey thats Great how is Zuni coming along? Are you guys looking at getting any government funding your self was planning on coordinating the FF training with the Coast Guard perhaps as a CG vollentary reserve type program..also the "vollenteer" crew would be a care taking crew for the tugs while being used as a museum..please conntact me via e-mail to bouce back and forth some info also thinking of utilizing the tugs as an emergancy salvage vehicle...AKA ship in distress we could respond till an official salvage/rescue tug can get into position...as there seems to be a lack of these type of craft over the last 30 years on the US waterways...any ideas you or the Crew of Zuni have would be very appreciated.

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    Hey FWDbuff Your comments don't reflect the fact i was recently tarred with the same brush as WARD BREWER from the JOHN RODGERS Fiasco in the Oct 09 issue of sea classics...trust me the writer deffinatly didn't do enough homework on the issue before mentioning that list of names as we were all screwed over by BREWER including me who gave him the acsess to 37,500USD he used for the trips and then when my group found funding to bring JR home and told him he could no longer have anything to do with JR he flat stated that he would rather see it scrapped..trust me I talked to the Tug owner and we both realized that we were being lied to by BREWER and a MR Richards out of OHIO

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    My previous department co-operated a 24' Whaler with a 7600gpm pump and bow-mounted stang gun on Lake Champlain.

    We would operate the boat alternating weeks with the other fire department in town. The boat was located at a marina right on the district line.

    We staffed the boat strictly for firefighting. If the boat was required for water rescue or dive operations, we would provide a pilot and 1 firefighter, and the town's rescue squad, who was responsible for all water rescue and dive work, would provide the remainder of the crew.

    The only requirements that we had, besides the pilot being checked off by the town's PD c hief pilot, was a 15-h0ur marine operations course, which covered marine firefighting. Most members had already received training dealing with water, ice and dive support operations.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    My previous department co-operated a 24' Whaler with a 7600gpm pump and bow-mounted stang gun on Lake Champlain.

    We would operate the boat alternating weeks with the other fire department in town. The boat was located at a marina right on the district line.

    We staffed the boat strictly for firefighting. If the boat was required for water rescue or dive operations, we would provide a pilot and 1 firefighter, and the town's rescue squad, who was responsible for all water rescue and dive work, would provide the remainder of the crew.

    The only requirements that we had, besides the pilot being checked off by the town's PD c hief pilot, was a 15-h0ur marine operations course, which covered marine firefighting. Most members had already received training dealing with water, ice and dive support operations.
    You SURE about that? A 7600 GPM pump would SINK that whaler. T.C.

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    Quote Originally Posted by usselliot76 View Post
    Hey FWDbuff Your comments don't reflect the fact i was recently tarred with the same brush as WARD BREWER from the JOHN RODGERS Fiasco in the Oct 09 issue of sea classics...trust me the writer deffinatly didn't do enough homework on the issue before mentioning that list of names as we were all screwed over by BREWER including me who gave him the acsess to 37,500USD he used for the trips and then when my group found funding to bring JR home and told him he could no longer have anything to do with JR he flat stated that he would rather see it scrapped..trust me I talked to the Tug owner and we both realized that we were being lied to by BREWER and a MR Richards out of OHIO
    I am confused. In another thread here on Firehouse, you claimed you had all the kinks worked out - you had a bulletproof plan for departments to be able to get an old tug, run it as a "here we come to save the day" boat, at absolutely no cost to the fire department, and that you had experience doing that.

    When questioned about if you actually had ever set one up, and how were ALL the costs being covered like you stated, you pulled your message?

    Whats the deal?

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    Typo .... 700 gpm.

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    Figured! Stay out of the spiked crawdads,hehe

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    Quote Originally Posted by usselliot76 View Post
    Hey FWDbuff Your comments don't reflect the fact i was recently tarred with the same brush as WARD BREWER from the JOHN RODGERS Fiasco in the Oct 09 issue of sea classics...trust me the writer deffinatly didn't do enough homework on the issue before mentioning that list of names as we were all screwed over by BREWER including me who gave him the acsess to 37,500USD he used for the trips and then when my group found funding to bring JR home and told him he could no longer have anything to do with JR he flat stated that he would rather see it scrapped..trust me I talked to the Tug owner and we both realized that we were being lied to by BREWER and a MR Richards out of OHIO
    What the hell are you talking about?

    I think your idea is built on good intentions, however you have many, many hurdles to overcome administratively, operationally, and financially. Until you overcome all these problems, I am really of the opinion that no one will be interested in your ideas or proposals, just too many unanswered questions. I am sorry but I have no interest in assisting you due to many other activities which I am already involved in.
    Last edited by FWDbuff; 12-22-2009 at 05:11 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rescue101 View Post
    You SURE about that? A 7600 GPM pump would SINK that whaler. T.C.

    Yeah, but it would sure make up for no interior attack!

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    Actually I didn't pull the message the message the admin here considered it to be an advertisement because some one reported it as one...here is the message I got from the admin about it..."usselliot76,

    Please be advised we received a report regarding your "Any department looking to add a Fireboat please conntact" thread as being determined an advertisement. Please review our rules and guidelines and refrain from posting such items to our forums.

    Thank you.
    So thats why the post dissapeared. As far as having the plan ect yes still have it...no one with a requirement for a LARGE fireboat has conntacted me..a few have asked for help with a fireboat for smaller lakes...AKA like the boston whaler in a post above I have asked them to send me the info on how big of a lake,water depth ect to enable me to make the best possible plan and find the best possible hull for the application and so far no one has replied with any specifics. So how can I possibly give out good info to just an E-mail that states something along the lines of "We have a department on a lake that covers a couple of marinas beaches ect,with pretty good boat travel around the lake." umm ok so would they like a tug to use as a fireboat??? Cause a tug on average will draw between 12 and 15 feet of water...depending on the tug type also what is their most usefull puming capacity would they ever really need a 10,000 GPM pump with a stang or do they really need more like a 500gpm booster line to take out smaller fires in Bass boats ect??? Kind of hard to give good answers to broad questions..don't ya think?

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