1. #1
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    Post S.O.P.'s/S.O.G.'s

    I have been with an explorer post for two years now and this year was named engine captain. I am heavily involved in the fire service (As much as an explorer can be involved) and am always looking to make things better for my fellow fire explorers. I have read several threads in which other firehouse members have talked about riding out with local fire departments while being an explorer. I am curious to what your S.O.P.'s/S.O.G.'s are on riding with your department and ideas on how to gain support for these such activities at my local department.
    Thank You
    Last edited by SLFEEC06; 07-08-2007 at 09:13 PM. Reason: Changed Font Size
    FE Engine Captain #06
    http://www.southlinefireexplorers.com
    **The knowledge given within these forums is my own personal insight and information and does not and should not necessarily reflect any organizations that I am associated with**

  2. #2
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    SOP's and SOG's are definatly a good idea. My only rules when I was a Junior was that I was not allowed to respond to Medical Emergency's or be on the first due truck for structure fires. Other than that I was pretty much fair game.




    P.S. Whats with the small writing?
    If someone with multiple personalities threatens to kill himself, is it considered a hostage situation?

    Ryan

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    I'll try and get a hold of ours for ya.

    Are you talking just regular ol' SOP/SOG's or just for riding along?

    Anything for a man from WNY!
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  4. #4
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    Post Thank You

    Thank you ndvfd. My problem is that the active guys within my company, which is around 80, were not sold on the idea of having explorers in the first place. We were established eleven years ago, yet still some active guys do not like the idea. I am looking for any ideas on how to gain support or show how having explorers "ride out" will help or aid the active guys on the emergency scene. Thanks Again.
    FE Engine Captain #06
    http://www.southlinefireexplorers.com
    **The knowledge given within these forums is my own personal insight and information and does not and should not necessarily reflect any organizations that I am associated with**

  5. #5
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    Default Thank You

    I would greatly appreciate anything you can gather RFRD. I believe the post I left after nvdfd's response will answer your question about what I am asking for. And, I believe I was reading a post where you said that you were recently in Buffalo? I'm about five minutes from the city.
    FE Engine Captain #06
    http://www.southlinefireexplorers.com
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    Quote Originally Posted by SLFEEC06 View Post
    Thank you ndvfd. My problem is that the active guys within my company, which is around 80, were not sold on the idea of having explorers in the first place. We were established eleven years ago, yet still some active guys do not like the idea. I am looking for any ideas on how to gain support or show how having explorers "ride out" will help or aid the active guys on the emergency scene. Thanks Again.
    I can see how your problem would bother you. I know of other depts that have that problem. No matter what they do, some of their members refuse to accept them as part of the group. It's sad to see really because it's such a great program to get an inside look into the fire service. Hopefully setting up a set SOP's/SOG's and making the membership aware you will all follow these will open their eyes a bit into maybe changing their views. Best of luck to yah.
    If someone with multiple personalities threatens to kill himself, is it considered a hostage situation?

    Ryan

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    hey i live not to far from you i can get the sog's for my post .. im the explorer lieutenant ... do you have an e-mail
    These opinions are mine and do not necessarily reflect the opinions of any organizations I am affiliated with.

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    At my department, we as Fire Explorers must

    1.] Have our duty gear / apparatus issued ( which is given after roughly 3-4 months and good ammount of weekly training accompanying that 3-4 months time)

    2.] Have 6 months service (been with the program actively) and be atleast 16 years of age.

    I'm a probie to the Explorer program there, and as far as I understand after meeting the above standards we just must sign up 3+ days in advance and if no one else is "riding along" that day.

    They don't mind if you ride, just generally no more than once per week.

  9. #9
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    Post Thank You

    Thank you both for your replies. All the information given is appreciated. BVFA I would like to get to know how your explorer post is run a little bit more due to you being so close to the South Line Fire Explorer post. I also would like to know if your post still participates in the EFAT training? Please private message me so we can contact each other.

    Thanks Again
    FE Engine Captain #06
    http://www.southlinefireexplorers.com
    **The knowledge given within these forums is my own personal insight and information and does not and should not necessarily reflect any organizations that I am associated with**

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    I know I am going to be called old fashioned and probably other names besides but here goes anyways.

    1) The prupose of the explorer / junior / cadet programs is to give young people a tatse of what the fire service is. To train them and let them view firefighters in action. It is not to have a group of underaged indiviuals working as firefighters.

    2) No one under the age of 18 should EVER be riding out on a vehicle running emergency to a fire or EMS or rescue call. EVER. There is simply no need for this to occur and to place those juniors/cadets/explorers in harms way like that.

    3) Under the supervision of a senior firefighter cadets/explorers/juniors may be transported to the scene to assist outside of the hot and warm zones. Sorry but this means no overhaul, no going interior to help clean up, no going to the roof, and really no actual firefighting activities.

    4) No junior/cadet/explorer should EVER be responding from school. Their is no need for them to do that since they should not be involved in emergency response in the first place. Better they get the high school education that they will need for EVERY aspect of life versus chasing fire calls.

    I fully expect to be told that I am wrong, that I am old fashioned and perhaps even more viscious things. But to me it is simple and this is what it boils down to: I am NOT going to bear the guilt of being responsible for a child getting killed in an overzealous attempt to increase manpower by using people that have no business being there in the first place.

    Have a nice day.

    FyredUp

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    I agree with 1,3,4 and I understand your point on two though I believe if ample room is available and the crew allows it, that riding along on calls can be a very good learning experience to how the fire service works on calls not just two alarm and larger fires.

    But like I said I can understand your point on number two. It is a liability. But if done correctly I believe it can be a good learning opportunity. I would like it if this dose not turn into a ****ing match.
    "...We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
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    Shall be my brother;..." - King Henry V - Shakespeare

    Quote Originally Posted by Catch22 View Post
    It's not the brightest thing to come into a topic and try to provoke a bunch of guys/gals with more time on the firehouse crapper than you do in the firehouse.
    "crispitycrunchitypeanutbuttery t0ast" - DFurtman

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    I figured I'd go ahead and chime in here. While I don't know the specifics in our SOGs about explorers, I do know that we allow them to ride on calls. They are given pagers once they complete the same ride qualifications as any other member, and can respond to calls. They can ride anything so long as the minimum crew requirements in our SOGs are met for that truck and they do not take the place of any senior firefighter. I also believe there are certain time restrictions (not allowed on calls past 10pm or something) and restrictions during school hours.

    Now I honestly can't say how things work in reality. We have a grand total of two explorers, one which never shows up and one which is too young to make it to the station without her parents (also firefighters) being there. Being a relatively new member myself, I have yet to actually see an explorer on a scene more than once, so I can't really comment from experience.

    My personal opinion on the matter is that explorers should be allowed to participate in training, and once they complete the same requirements as a senior member, be allowed to ride on calls. While I understand the concern, I fail to see the value of transporting them later on after missing most of the action. If the point is to observe and learn, they need to see the whole picture or else they'll never learn what really goes on.

    But again, lacking experience myself, maybe I'm a bit naive about the whole issue.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    I know I am going to be called old fashioned and probably other names besides but here goes anyways.

    1) The prupose of the explorer / junior / cadet programs is to give young people a tatse of what the fire service is. To train them and let them view firefighters in action. It is not to have a group of underaged indiviuals working as firefighters.

    2) No one under the age of 18 should EVER be riding out on a vehicle running emergency to a fire or EMS or rescue call. EVER. There is simply no need for this to occur and to place those juniors/cadets/explorers in harms way like that.

    3) Under the supervision of a senior firefighter cadets/explorers/juniors may be transported to the scene to assist outside of the hot and warm zones. Sorry but this means no overhaul, no going interior to help clean up, no going to the roof, and really no actual firefighting activities.

    4) No junior/cadet/explorer should EVER be responding from school. Their is no need for them to do that since they should not be involved in emergency response in the first place. Better they get the high school education that they will need for EVERY aspect of life versus chasing fire calls.
    I fully expect to be told that I am wrong, that I am old fashioned and perhaps even more viscious things. But to me it is simple and this is what it boils down to: I am NOT going to bear the guilt of being responsible for a child getting killed in an overzealous attempt to increase manpower by using people that have no business being there in the first place.

    Have a nice day.

    FyredUp
    I'm not going to tell you that your wrong because I have no right too.


    #2 I agree with to an extent. I dont think Juniors should respond to MVC's for the obvious dangers, Medicals for the fact I've seen some not take those types of calls very well or on the first due truck to a Structure fire because those seats should be reserved for trained(of age ) firefighters. To add to that it should vary on whats good for the dept. A small dept like mine that runs a 100 or so calls a year and doesn't get many Structure fires or MVC's often times it's not a bad thing for a Junior to come. They watch from a distance and thats about it. A dept that is busier this may not work as well.


    #4 I agree 110% with you. I look back now and say damn why did I go to that Medical or Alarm Sounding call instead of staying in class. If theres one peice of advice I can give is STAY PUT! Worry about calls after school or weekends but not during school hours. You will be happy you do in the long run.
    Last edited by ndvfdff33; 07-17-2007 at 02:05 PM.
    If someone with multiple personalities threatens to kill himself, is it considered a hostage situation?

    Ryan

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    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    I know I am going to be called old fashioned and probably other names besides but here goes anyways.

    1) The prupose of the explorer / junior / cadet programs is to give young people a tatse of what the fire service is. To train them and let them view firefighters in action. It is not to have a group of underaged indiviuals working as firefighters.

    2) No one under the age of 18 should EVER be riding out on a vehicle running emergency to a fire or EMS or rescue call. EVER. There is simply no need for this to occur and to place those juniors/cadets/explorers in harms way like that.

    3) Under the supervision of a senior firefighter cadets/explorers/juniors may be transported to the scene to assist outside of the hot and warm zones. Sorry but this means no overhaul, no going interior to help clean up, no going to the roof, and really no actual firefighting activities.

    4) No junior/cadet/explorer should EVER be responding from school. Their is no need for them to do that since they should not be involved in emergency response in the first place. Better they get the high school education that they will need for EVERY aspect of life versus chasing fire calls.

    I fully expect to be told that I am wrong, that I am old fashioned and perhaps even more viscious things. But to me it is simple and this is what it boils down to: I am NOT going to bear the guilt of being responsible for a child getting killed in an overzealous attempt to increase manpower by using people that have no business being there in the first place.

    Have a nice day.

    FyredUp
    I agree (for what it's worth) 100%. But, again I am an old guy.

    T.J.

  15. #15
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    Post Thank You

    Thank you all for the replies. I don't believe that I was specific enough when first posting this thread. As of now, our explorer post cannot ride out on any calls, whether lights and sirens or not. I agree that we should not be allowed to ride out lights and sirens but I would like it for one of our two utility trucks be used during an alarm of fire to transport explorers and other members to the scene when additional manpower is needed. I'm not one of those kids who just want to ride "hot" to a scene to just stand around in my turnout gear and wink at the ladies watching me from the sidewalk. I want, and the other explorers want the experience of fireground tactics, visually. Sometimes just listening to the scanner is not enough, but I do understand that sometimes as young adults...ok kids...that we have to be patient and deal with watching our mentors respond to calls. Thank you all for the comments and please, any more comments are welcome.

    Hopefully this thread does not turn into a explorer vs. active firefighter ****ing match due to explorers not being firefighters. That is already understood on my part so please, this information does not need to be said. And, FyredUp, you have many valid points. I appreciate your knowledge and insight. Thanks Again
    FE Engine Captain #06
    http://www.southlinefireexplorers.com
    **The knowledge given within these forums is my own personal insight and information and does not and should not necessarily reflect any organizations that I am associated with**

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    Quote Originally Posted by SLFEEC06 View Post
    Thank you all for the replies. I don't believe that I was specific enough when first posting this thread. As of now, our explorer post cannot ride out on any calls, whether lights and sirens or not. I agree that we should not be allowed to ride out lights and sirens but I would like it for one of our two utility trucks be used during an alarm of fire to transport explorers and other members to the scene when additional manpower is needed. I'm not one of those kids who just want to ride "hot" to a scene to just stand around in my turnout gear and wink at the ladies watching me from the sidewalk. I want, and the other explorers want the experience of fireground tactics, visually. Sometimes just listening to the scanner is not enough, but I do understand that sometimes as young adults...ok kids...that we have to be patient and deal with watching our mentors respond to calls. Thank you all for the comments and please, any more comments are welcome.

    Hopefully this thread does not turn into a explorer vs. active firefighter ****ing match due to explorers not being firefighters. That is already understood on my part so please, this information does not need to be said. And, FyredUp, you have many valid points. I appreciate your knowledge and insight. Thanks Again


    You seem to have all of your thoughts well placed. You post very good points and respect your peers. Keep up the good work.

    There are several on here that can help answer your questions regaurding Explorer/Jr. FF questions. RFRDxplorer and our good young man from up north of the border, stephen, and others can help you a great deal. Especially RFRD, who is very active in his explorer post and here. As many post (here) and years he has been around I think he is at least 25, . Keep doing what you are doing, asking questions, and you will learn alot. I learn something new here most of the time and I have done this for......awhile.

    Fyredup did agree with you on explorers and Jrs. going to scenes as long as it was not emergency and always out of the hot/warm zones. My thinking on this is the same as I said earlier. It is not to be mean, it is a BIG safety issue, and the right thing to do. Learn while you can while you mature and grow older/wiser. Just think of the knowledge you will have gained in those 3,4, or 5 years untill that magical day comes when you are old enough to enter this grate career.


    T.J.

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    I know of a few departments that have the explorers run a rehab van on all 2 alarm and higher calls. They bring cases of water, tarps, food, seats, chairs, medical kits, tables, ect.. I don't know the specifics but I do know that they work with emt's and or medics at the rehab taking vitals. Don't know if I can get the sop's or sog's though.
    "...We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
    For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
    Shall be my brother;..." - King Henry V - Shakespeare

    Quote Originally Posted by Catch22 View Post
    It's not the brightest thing to come into a topic and try to provoke a bunch of guys/gals with more time on the firehouse crapper than you do in the firehouse.
    "crispitycrunchitypeanutbuttery t0ast" - DFurtman

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    Quote Originally Posted by Remthedays View Post
    You seem to have all of your thoughts well placed. You post very good points and respect your peers. Keep up the good work.

    There are several on here that can help answer your questions regaurding Explorer/Jr. FF questions. RFRDxplorer and our good young man from up north of the border, stephen, and others can help you a great deal. Especially RFRD, who is very active in his explorer post and here. As many post (here) and years he has been around I think he is at least 25, . Keep doing what you are doing, asking questions, and you will learn alot. I learn something new here most of the time and I have done this for......awhile.

    Fyredup did agree with you on explorers and Jrs. going to scenes as long as it was not emergency and always out of the hot/warm zones. My thinking on this is the same as I said earlier. It is not to be mean, it is a BIG safety issue, and the right thing to do. Learn while you can while you mature and grow older/wiser. Just think of the knowledge you will have gained in those 3,4, or 5 years untill that magical day comes when you are old enough to enter this grate career.


    T.J.


    LMFAO

    Thanks for the kind words.


    But seriously, if anyone has any questions about anything, not necessarily related to SOP/SOG's but anything hit me up on email..........


    jhoffman358@yahoo.com
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